Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[GBJ]

it happens on both sides of the spectrum. Mr Javid has been doing that very thing today - trying to paint Labour as a racist party the day after he voted to bury Windrush documentation, the day after the Muslim Council of Britain renewed their appeal for an inquiry into Islamophobia in the Conservative Party, and the week that the Tories have had to ditch 18 candidates mostly for racism. It's a tool that people will use.

Accusing someone of unfounded racism, to purely silence a debate, is not a tool I use. Nor anybody I know for that matter. What crap they chuck at each other on the political merry-go-round, isn't really the point. The point was, that regular as clockwork, as soon as a figure from a minority background is criticised, some people automatically/purposefully construe that as racism. Which frankly, undermines & devalues the actual fight against racism.

But Abbott does receive a barrage of racist hate on a daily basis. The court case going on with one of her abusers right now is pretty shocking. When most MPs get criticised on here it's fairly specific to policy or ability, even on here criticism of Abbott seems more vitriolic and as people know the kind of hate she receives I think for some people alarm bells ring. It's in the context of how she is regularly treated.

Listen, I'm not going to condone racist abuse of anybody. She doesn't deserve it. Period. However, she does IMO, deserve a man-sized portion of criticism & condemnation, for her own predjudiced opinions.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

*** has ignored my question twice now, so I'll ask you, what do you make of Abbots racist comments? Do they sit well with you?

See ***'s post to you in this thread.Which racist quotes exactly?

She's coloured. She's bigoted. She's a woman. That's not being misogynistic, it's just a fact (in my opinion) If she was a he I'd be saying the same thing you clown.

And explain to me why I'm a bigot? Because I've pilloried and lampooned her and she just happens to be coloured/brown/black?

Your comments about how DA has achieved her post of Shadow Home Secretary in Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet were most certainly misogynistic.

Your a bigot because you blindly and obstinately spout unthinking right wing views on a continuous knee jerk basis.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Come on now mate, don't be coy, you know full well which widely publicised & heavily criticised quotes I'm referring to.

The fact you've avoided the question twice, and are now stalling by asking for the exact quotes, tells me that even you know, it's hard to defend her for that.

Sorry but I don't know the racist quotes you're talking about,either.Got a link?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Accusing someone of unfounded racism, to purely silence a debate, is not a tool I use. Nor anybody I know for that matter. What crap they chuck at each other on the political merry-go-round, isn't really the point. The point was, that regular as clockwork, as soon as a figure from a minority background is criticised, some people automatically/purposefully construe that as racism. Which frankly, undermines & devalues the actual fight against racism.



Listen, I'm not going to condone racist abuse of anybody. She doesn't deserve it. Period. However, she does IMO, deserve a man-sized portion of criticism & condemnation, for her own predjudiced opinions.

I wouldn't agree that happens as a rule but does in some specific cases. Abbott is a special case because of the vicious racist abuse she gets on a daily basis - it makes her life a misery and for those who want to criticise her to be a bit more guarded about the terminology they use is probably a small price to pay.
Sadiq Khan is someone else who gets constant racist abuse, I see it on twitter all the time - from the laughable regular polls on deporting him, to pure hate for him being Muslim. Zac Goldsmith, Michael Fallon and David Cameron legitimised that. Once you are aware the way he is treated by many people it puts you on your guard to look more closely at language used in criticism of him. Javid is instantly in that category - a Muslim a Home Secretary has seen him abused straight away as a lot of people can not deal with that combination.

So as far as I'm concerned it's not a default position but there are some individuals that get such vitriolic abuse that anything that seems too aggressive triggers suspicions.

 

[maninasuitcase]

Accusing someone of unfounded racism, to purely silence a debate, is not a tool I use. Nor anybody I know for that matter. What crap they chuck at each other on the political merry-go-round, isn't really the point. The point was, that regular as clockwork, as soon as a figure from a minority background is criticised, some people automatically/purposefully construe that as racism. Which frankly, undermines & devalues the actual fight against racism.



Listen, I'm not going to condone racist abuse of anybody. She doesn't deserve it. Period. However, she does IMO, deserve a man-sized portion of criticism & condemnation, for her own predjudiced opinions.

Can you give us some quotes from Abbott that would back up that statement, GBJ. I am not her greatest fan but I can't recall anything she has said that can be considered racist, but I am prepared to be enlightened.

One general point I have is that although racism is totally abhorrent, the right will sometimes play the race card if a 'black' person rises above their 'natural' position and does well.

I agree that racism is not restricted to white people, there are plenty of examples in history where that is not the case, but let's face facts, white people enslaved black people for a long period of time. Even if you think that was in the past, there are plenty of people that think a black person should not have been elected president of the USA, including an ex member of Shrimperzone, or that they should not be allowed to marry into the royal family.

One or two 'racist' black men or woman does not excuse the actions of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of white racist men.

 

[rigsby]

Can you give us some quotes from Abbott that would back up that statement, GBJ. I am not her greatest fan but I can't recall anything she has said that can be considered racist, but I am prepared to be enlightened.

One general point I have is that although racism is totally abhorrent, the right will sometimes play the race card if a 'black' person rises above their 'natural' position and does well.

I agree that racism is not restricted to white people, there are plenty of examples in history where that is not the case, but let's face facts, white people enslaved black people for a long period of time. Even if you think that was in the past, there are plenty of people that think a black person should not have been elected president of the USA, including an ex member of Shrimperzone, or that they should not be allowed to marry into the royal family.

One or two 'racist' black men or woman does not excuse the actions of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of white racist men.

What study did these figures come from.

If its only one or two, it would be foolish to allow one of then to become the Home Secretary don't you think?

Surely Labour can find someone who is happy and even proud to be British rather than identifying themselves as Black and not British even though they were born in London.

 

[Benfleet A1]

all parties need 'paper candidates' who stand no chance of winning so you do get sounded out for standing. I have too many secrets so I couldn't risk it personally.

Edit: there is a Shrimper who is a Labour councillor in Manchester, don't think he posts on here though, and I think one of the posters on here was a Labour Councillor in South London....I think

Ooohh, secrets, skeletons in the cupboard, do tell.:smile:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Ooohh, secrets, skeletons in the cupboard, do tell.:smile:

love to but secrets are secret for a reason!

 

[MK Shrimper]

Ooohh, secrets, skeletons in the cupboard, do tell.:smile:

love to but secrets are secret for a reason!

  Spoiler:  

 

[blues exile]

Ever thought of standing youself?

Opps, thought *** posted that. Never mind, have either of you thought about standing?

Yes, I have served as a parish councillor in Norfolk about 20 years ago and have stood for election to East Sussex county council and Eastbourne borough council in recent years.

 

[maninasuitcase]

What study did these figures come from.

If its only one or two, it would be foolish to allow one of then to become the Home Secretary don't you think?

Surely Labour can find someone who is happy and even proud to be British rather than identifying themselves as Black and not British even though they were born in London.

You know exactly what I mean Rigsby. I didn't mention a study, so why did you?

Why do you have a problem with someone identifying as black before British? I don't see that as an issue.

Diane Abbott has never been Home Secretary, but Theresa May has, and she was responsible for the Windrush debacle and the vans suggesting people should go home.

So Rigsby, give me some evidence Diane Abbott is a racist and put it in context against the many white racists in society and history.

For example, is Abbott more or less racist than Hitler?

Is she more or less racist than the South African regime under apartheid?

Is she more or less racist than the KKK? I don't recall Abbott dressing up as a ghost and burning and hanging white folk.

 

[callan]

You know exactly what I mean Rigsby. I didn't mention a study, so why did you?

Why do you have a problem with someone identifying as black before British? I don't see that as an issue.

Diane Abbott has never been Home Secretary, but Theresa May has, and she was responsible for the Windrush debacle and the vans suggesting people should go home.

So Rigsby, give me some evidence Diane Abbott is a racist and put it in context against the many white racists in society and history.

For example, is Abbott more or less racist than Hitler?

Is she more or less racist than the South African regime under apartheid?

Is she more or less racist than the KKK? I don't recall Abbott dressing up as a ghost and burning and hanging white folk.

Is the tenet of this argument, that if you are less racist than extreme it's ok?

I doubt that's what you mean, but the point of how racist Abbot is lost on me.

Abbot has performed woefully at times in front of media, and has been called out for her racism in the past.

 

[maninasuitcase]

Is the tenet of this argument, that if you are less racist than extreme it's ok?

I doubt that's what you mean, but the point of how racist Abbot is lost on me.

Abbot has performed woefully at times in front of media, and has been called out for her racism in the past.

The argument is that several posters have stated that Abbott is a racist and I have asked for evidence of this. A direct quote would be helpful, but so far none have been provided.

As I posted earlier in the thread, I am happy to be enlightened on the subject. Until then it is just mudslinging.

 

[Bielzibubz]

The argument is that several posters have stated that Abbott is a racist and I have asked for evidence of this. A direct quote would be helpful, but so far none have been provided.

As I posted earlier in the thread, I am happy to be enlightened on the subject. Until then it is just mudslinging.

Speaking at The World Transformed forum, incidentally organised by The Momentum branch of the Labour party......."We need to revisit the campaign for all black short lists"........If that were a white person that had said that about encouraging the need for all white short lists he/she would quite rightly be called out as a racist.

In a tweet regarding the Steven Lawrence inquiry "White people love playing 'divide and rule' We should not play their game"
Again, if that were a white person...............

 

[Benfleet A1]

The argument is that several posters have stated that Abbott is a racist and I have asked for evidence of this. A direct quote would be helpful, but so far none have been provided.

As I posted earlier in the thread, I am happy to be enlightened on the subject. Until then it is just mudslinging.

Go to her wikipedia page and jump to the racist comments bit for her entire back cataloge. Then feel enlightened.

 

[callan]

The argument is that several posters have stated that Abbott is a racist and I have asked for evidence of this. A direct quote would be helpful, but so far none have been provided.

As I posted earlier in the thread, I am happy to be enlightened on the subject. Until then it is just mudslinging.

I don't think providing evidence of Abbots racism is difficult in any shape or form, and she has had to apologise for it in the past.....so mudslinging is certainly isn't.

The weight of racism charges against Abbot are fairly compelling, one wonders if it shouldn't be those who support her that should be trying to convince us she has changed her ways and supplying the evidence.

As for your own original argument it still suggests racism is acceptable, as long as you don't go as far as Hitler or the Klu Klux Klan, something I'm fairly confident no one has suggested regarding Abbot on this thread.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Speaking at The World Transformed forum, incidentally organised by The Momentum branch of the Labour party......."We need to revisit the campaign for all black short lists"........If that were a white person that had said that about encouraging the need for all white short lists he/she would quite rightly be called out as a racist.

In a tweet regarding the Steven Lawrence inquiry "White people love playing 'divide and rule' We should not play their game"
Again, if that were a white person...............

Women shortlists, ethnicity shortlists, disability shortlists - used in a variety of industries - parliamentary candidates, the police, the FA! It's to increase representation. You can argue whether its the way forward but it's widely proposed.

 

[rigsby]

You know exactly what I mean Rigsby. I didn't mention a study, so why did you?

Why do you have a problem with someone identifying as black before British? I don't see that as an issue.

Diane Abbott has never been Home Secretary, but Theresa May has, and she was responsible for the Windrush debacle and the vans suggesting people should go home.

So Rigsby, give me some evidence Diane Abbott is a racist and put it in context against the many white racists in society and history.

For example, is Abbott more or less racist than Hitler?

Is she more or less racist than the South African regime under apartheid?

Is she more or less racist than the KKK? I don't recall Abbott dressing up as a ghost and burning and hanging white folk.

You always seem to have problem reading my posts and invent things. Nothing wrong with identifying yourself as black/British, its just that DA does not include the British bit.

As for your crass comparisons to Hitler or the KKK, I think you need to have a more worldly knowledge of issues like racism before you come back and slag other posters who clearly do. Your claim that only white people are racist proves you spend to much time in your suitcase.

Just to give you one quote from DA "The British invented racism"

 

[rigsby]

Women shortlists, ethnicity shortlists, disability shortlists - used in a variety of industries - parliamentary candidates, the police, the FA! It's to increase representation. You can argue whether its the way forward but it's widely proposed.

Back in the 80's they used the term positive discrimination which was used by people like the London Fire Brigade. Depending on the colour of your skin you could go on a 9 week course before you started the real training at Southwark. Not only did it put a slur on any Black/ethnic minority Firefighters who had passed the same as everyone else but was later ruled to be illegal.

All they have done is come up with new terms like, 'Positive Discrimination'. It now used even for promotion. The only problem with that is you can end up with Dianne Abbott in the shadow cabinet

 

[OldBlueLady]

Back in the 80's they used the term positive discrimination which was used by people like the London Fire Brigade. Depending on the colour of your skin you could go on a 9 week course before you started the real training at Southwark. Not only did it put a slur on any Black/ethnic minority Firefighters who had passed the same as everyone else but was later ruled to be illegal.

All they have done is come up with new terms like, 'Positive Discrimination'. It now used even for promotion. The only problem with that is you can end up with Dianne Abbott in the shadow cabinet

I think I've mentioned before about the open discrimination in the Prison Service. If you were a white middle aged man then you stood not an earthly of promotion, however, being a black female of any age then you were fast tracked, regardless of how inadequate you were at the job. It's part of the reason the Prison Service is such a mess now as large numbers of those white middle aged men, the ones with the wealth of experience and commanded the respect of the prisoners, have left the profession.