Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[GBJ]

He had better have the goal of being PM or he is in the wrong job. 40% of voters had that goal in 2017.
EU - he has been a long term critic, but most large institutions are easily criticised and EU is massive.
I'm pretty sure his thinking is that if the type of Leave we get fits in with ERG then it's very much not the type he would want. He is probably thinking that two and a half years have been wasted going round in circles and to leave with such a lack of preparation (especially with no deal) will be a disaster. His letter to May contains terms that are more likely to be agreeable to EU, more likely to get the backing of Parliament, and less divisive for the country as 52 or 48 are likely to be dead against this than the options May is likely to come up with.
It's pragmatism, which is one of the things that has been lacking in the current government.

Come on mate, paragraphs please.

There's always a chance,I suppose ,that you'll get your wish for a no deal Brexit at the end of March but I don't think so somehow.I really don't believe even the UK's politicians are daft enough to impose that on the British people.

Btw,why are we discussing this on the Jeremy Corbyn thread?

I’ve never once advocated a No Deal Brexit?

 

[GBJ]

If it only suited the EU then UK Parliament could vote against it. If there is an end deal it will be by agreement on both sides.
Most likely scenario is that May won't take up Corbyn's points, but it should at least make her realise that her current option is going nowhere and is not the only option.

Oh I agree. May is a stubborn old boot. She’s been stuck down a dead end for months now, and I can’t see her actually finding a way out.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

See that MP who didn’t get a police escort at the Labour conference is in the news again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47178203

Of course nothing to see hear and absolutely nothing to do with anti semitism within the Labour Party.
They had an enquiry remember.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Yes, I can hear the groans from Labour supporters and the usual riposte........i.e. "Look how far we were behind in 2017 and look at the result we achieved." Yet this is truly AWFUL. With a terribly pathetic and incompetent Conservative government, Corbyn has a 1% WORSE dissatisfied rating than the government..............72% dissatisfied!!! Labour we have a BIG problem here............or are some of you too blind to see? This is written by someone who is desperately worried at the risk of another bloody Tory government being elected. I've read people suggesting that a future Labour programme is not extreme. Well, if it's not the programme,........................................................ it must be the man.


With the usual caveat about the unreliability of polls, the London Evening Standard reports that Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership ratings have crashed to their worst level yet as a result of Brexit.

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Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB​

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Corbyn's net Ipsos-MORI satisfaction ratings drop from a net minus 32% to 55%. Chart from @standardnews​

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12:53 PM - Feb 8, 2019​

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The poll also found that:​

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• The proportion of the public satisfied with Corbyn’s performance has dropped to 17% per cent — the lowest figure recorded by any Labour leader apart from Michael Foot.
• The proportion dissatisfied with the Labour leader has risen to 72%.
• Under half of Labour voters (44%) are happy with him.

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Seen the poll. Absolutely 100% want a General Election as soon as possible. That's how much polls mean to most Labour activists. If the Tories see this poll and act on it that would be lush.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The idea of pushing on with a solution which is a bad one and has, I would assume, virtually no liking from either side and has an air of obstinacy about it parallel to May's, "my deal is the only deal." We're in the politics of the madhouse! In trying to be too reasonable we arrive at a true judgement of Solomon.

If this solution is seen as a bad one then I hope it wouldn't be acted on. But if you work on the assumption that we are leaving then it seems the best option suggested so far. What Leave scheme have you seen that is better?
No one has replicated the 'my deal is the only deal' pledged from May - who has say that about this current option?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

See that MP who didn’t get a police escort at the Labour conference is in the news again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47178203

Of course nothing to see hear and absolutely nothing to do with anti semitism within the Labour Party.
They had an enquiry remember.

Why mention the police escort lie when you state it is a lie? Weird opening gambit.
Berger has annoyed her local party members by constantly threatening to join another party and failing to express any enthusiasm for a Labour government. She was parachuted into an area she has no connection to, is happy to accept the hard work from members to keep her in a job but won't reciprocate by working for a Labour government. Her local party want to give her a wake up call - be with us properly if act on your threats to move on.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Seen the poll. Absolutely 100% want a General Election as soon as possible. That's how much polls mean to most Labour activists. If the Tories see this poll and act on it that would be lush.

Don't know whether you were around then but just how confident were you when Michael Foot took on Thatcher?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

If this solution is seen as a bad one then I hope it wouldn't be acted on. But if you work on the assumption that we are leaving then it seems the best option suggested so far. What Leave scheme have you seen that is better?
No one has replicated the 'my deal is the only deal' pledged from May - who has say that about this current option?

Surely this is the reason the whole business of Brexit needs to be reflected on again (although I don't know whether it will be). I can understand the logic of leaving with no deal even though I believe it's lunacy. I can understand the reasoning of, 'if that's what we are going to end up with,' what's the point?.............we may as well stay in. It's the fudged, pointless, middle solutions which please no one that I'm having difficulty getting my head around. You see with a hard Brexit you please 52% of the people and with a decision to remain you please 48% of the people. You're trying to tell me that your solution which pleases nearer 0% of the population is the best solution............strange! If we had got our promised deal of having all the benefits of the EU, whilst being outside, I wouldn't have anything to argue against.............but that's certainly not the case.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Why mention the police escort lie when you state it is a lie? Weird opening gambit.
Berger has annoyed her local party members by constantly threatening to join another party and failing to express any enthusiasm for a Labour government. She was parachuted into an area she has no connection to, is happy to accept the hard work from members to keep her in a job but won't reciprocate by working for a Labour government. Her local party want to give her a wake up call - be with us properly if act on your threats to move on.

The decision to drop the vote is a welcome one...................I wonder where it came from and what pressures were applied? I would dispute the fact that she doesn't want to work towards a Labour government. I'm sure that, above all, is what she wants. I think, like many of her colleagues, she just fears that won't be possible to achieve with Corbyn as leader.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Don't know whether you were around then but just how confident were you when Michael Foot took on Thatcher?

I'm 47 so wouldn't be able to give a full assessment of Micheal Foot. The fact that people constantly try to use a reference point that someone who is 47 is too young to fully comprehend is very telling! Keep it current people!
But you brought Thatcher into it too. Are you comparing May too her? Thatcher was pure evil and went to war against particular communities - maybe you see similarities with May's 'hostile environment? I think the big difference between Thatcher and May is Thatcher knew what she wanted to do and got on and did it, May just flaps around doing next to nothing.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Surely this is the reason the whole business of Brexit needs to be reflected on again (although I don't know whether it will be). I can understand the logic of leaving with no deal even though I believe it's lunacy. I can understand the reasoning of, 'if that's what we are going to end up with,' what's the point?.............we may as well stay in. It's the fudged, pointless, middle solutions which please no one that I'm having difficulty getting my head around. You see with a hard Brexit you please 52% of the people and with a decision to remain you please 48% of the people. You're trying to tell me that your solution which pleases nearer 0% of the population is the best solution............strange! If we had got our promised deal of having all the benefits of the EU, whilst being outside, I wouldn't have anything to argue against.............but that's certainly not the case.

Would leaving with no deal please 52%? I don't see any evidence that the 52% were all voting for the same kind of Leave. Even the Leave MP's have different interpretations. Even the duo of Gove and Johnson take opposing views the merits of May's deal verses no deal. There is probably no way to please the 52%. Yet to ditch Brexit will be seen by many, including Remainers as undemocratic. Finding a middle way has some merits, life is full of compromise. Cameron opened the door to all round disappointment and once opened it can't be shut.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The decision to drop the vote is a welcome one...................I wonder where it came from and what pressures were applied? I would dispute the fact that she doesn't want to work towards a Labour government. I'm sure that, above all, is what she wants. I think, like many of her colleagues, she just fears that won't be possible to achieve with Corbyn as leader.

There is no logical justification in the notion that its not possible for Corbyn to become PM. Why do people need to hear the same stats yet again? April 2017 Tories 20% ahead in polls, Theresea May the darling of the media and broke the fixed term rules to cash in a large majority. June 2017, Labour gain 40% of the vote - biggest increase since 1945, Tories 2% ahead and lose their majority.
Those are the stats. If there is another GE before 2022 then it will mean the government has collapsed and most likely failed to have delivered the one policy that has been their sole focus. Makes absolutely no sense bearing all of that in mind to say a Labour government is not possible.

The pre-election coup, yes that was based on the perception that Labour would see a historic defeat at the next election. Corbyn won that with a bigger majority as the membership kept the faith in the policies they wanted - and in 2017 were proven right, given a normal campaigning time the Labour vote could have gone higher. There is now no sense in changing track, no sense in expressing the pre election fears. If Berger can't express a desire for a Labour government then she has no right to be a Labour MP. If her local party don't feel she is representing them, and she keeps threatening to leave anyway then its totally legitimate that they call her to answer their concerns.

Drop the vote - not welcomed by me. Not sure if this was the reason by Tom Watson called for the whole CLP to be suspended - what a ****ing joke. I voted for Corbyn and Watson because I wanted that balance. I wouldn't vote Watson again, he doesn't offer balance he offers disruption. I tweeted him this evening asking if he had been to Wavertree to discuss with the CLP their issues with their MP. Obviously I won't get a reply but I've had replies from the locals and been told he has never been there. Knee jerk reaction tampering with local democracy - not a good look.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Why mention the police escort lie when you state it is a lie? Weird opening gambit.
Berger has annoyed her local party members by constantly threatening to join another party and failing to express any enthusiasm for a Labour government. She was parachuted into an area she has no connection to, is happy to accept the hard work from members to keep her in a job but won't reciprocate by working for a Labour government. Her local party want to give her a wake up call - be with us properly if act on your threats to move on.

Definitely a lie about the police escort is it? Interesting.
An area she has no connection to, also interesting. Bit like a North London MP (from the west county) getting involved in the politics of the Middle East and Irish republicans.
Tom Watson, the one that made that “great speech” the other day, appears to disagree with you.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Definitely a lie about the police escort is it? Interesting.
An area she has no connection to, also interesting. Bit like a North London MP (from the west county) getting involved in the politics of the Middle East and Irish republicans.
Tom Watson, the one that made that “great speech” the other day, appears to disagree with you.

I'm on my phone so not sure how readable this will be but it is the police statement clarifying that the police escort story is a lie.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

That doesn’t actually clear anything up I’m afraid.
All the police response states is that she wasn’t provided with specialist armed police protection. For this to have happened it would have had to have been pre planned and would have obviously been a much bigger story. The BBC article states she was given a police escort at conference.
If it’s wrong why hasn’t someone from Labour challenged it?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

That doesn’t actually clear anything up I’m afraid.
All the police response states is that she wasn’t provided with specialist armed police protection. For this to have happened it would have had to have been pre planned and would have obviously been a much bigger story. The BBC article states she was given a police escort at conference.
If it’s wrong why hasn’t someone from Labour challenged it?

Why would the police issue a statement saying no specific escort was provided if it was but not pre-planned? That's pretty desperate to cling on to - just accept that unscrupulous journalists take photos and then write fantasy stories based on what the photos can look like.

Why would the Labour Party invest time in dispelling myths that right wing trolls like to pass around? They'd have no time for anything else if they wanted to tackle that phenomenon.

They pick some every now and again such as the compensation The Sun had to pay out this week to Richard Burgon, the Tory MP whose name escapes me (looks like Al Murray) who apologised to Corbyn and paid compensation to a local food bank last year and the big payout to Labour from a UKIP MEP last year.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Sorry but that’s bollocks. Police didn’t issue any statement, they replied to a freedom of information request. Right wing trolls? Does that include the daily mirror who also stated she was given a police escort?
I repeat, if this is a fabrication of the truth then why isn’t anyone from the Labour Party challenging it?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Sorry but that’s bollocks. Police didn’t issue any statement, they replied to a freedom of information request. Right wing trolls? Does that include the daily mirror who also stated she was given a police escort?
I repeat, if this is a fabrication of the truth then why isn’t anyone from the Labour Party challenging it?

A newspaper invented the story and other newspapers and media repeated it. Right wing trolls still bring it up now even though they know it's not true.

I provided you with the statement from the police claritying Berger had no specific police escort. If you want to doubt the words of the police about their own operations that is up to you but if you want people to respect the words you write on here then I'd suggest that you are doing yourself a disservice.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Such a pity that Christmas has passed and Labour supporters on here can't benefit from a a copy of Tom Bower's ("one of Britain's leading investigative authors"................according to the Mail ) new book on Jeremy ('joyless' sic) Corbyn.
This nonsense just led me to wonder why the Mail promoted the story. I can only imagine it as an effort to promote splits in the party. If I was a Tory tactician, I'd be keen to keep Corbyn in place for the next election, fearful that any subsequent leader could have wider public appeal and pose a greater threat to the aim of a Tory majority.
As it's Sunday, for those who can't wait for it to hit the bookshops........here's a taster!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-40-years-plots-lies-intimidation-chaos.html

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

A newspaper invented the story and other newspapers and media repeated it. Right wing trolls still bring it up now even though they know it's not true.

I provided you with the statement from the police claritying Berger had no specific police escort. If you want to doubt the words of the police about their own operations that is up to you but if you want people to respect the words you write on here then I'd suggest that you are doing yourself a disservice.

Other posters can make their own minds up whether they want respect my posts without any help from you. They can also read the link you provided from Merseyside Police and come to their own conclusions, as I have.
If you want people to respect you I suggest you stop defending nasty anti-Semitic attacks on Labour MP's by claiming everyone else is lying when clearly that doesn't appear to be the case.