Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

[Colorado Shrimper]

Berger was formerly a director of Labour Friends of Israel. Tony Blair of course received substantial funds from Lord Levy etc.

 

[blues exile]

Another one... Joan Ryan from Labour now, citing a culture of ‘anti-Jewish racism’

And another one who lost a no confidence motion by her local CLP last September and would have been deselected anyway. Her activities were clearly exposed bt the Al Jazeera expose of the Israeli government interfering in British politics.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Another one... Joan Ryan from Labour now, citing a culture of ‘anti-Jewish racism’

Joan Ryan says she can no longer remain in a party where 0.01% of members might be antisemitic....so she's leaving to join a party where 14% of members are proven racists

 

[rigsby]

Too vague, I asked what exactly makes Corbyn far left in your view?

His Love of IRA funerals and his call for terrorists who murdered British citizens, to be remembered....That's more than enough for me.

 

[Blueronron]

Be interesting if the three Tories go today and join the Magnificent 7

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

And another one who lost a no confidence motion by her local CLP last September and would have been deselected anyway. Her activities were clearly exposed bt the Al Jazeera expose of the Israeli government interfering in British politics.

I'm not on here as an apologist for some of the Israeli actions and policies in the middle-east, yet there does need to be a little balance here. You mention Joan Ryan's no confidence meeting and Al Jazeera's ( they are of course an Independent voice! ) exposé on her. What you strangely fail to mention are some of the events of that night. What about why two journalists from Press TV, the Iranian State broadcaster (aren't they banned in the UK?), why were they allowed to film the meeting? Isn't that banned under Labour Party rules? One of the journalists, Robert Carter had apparently joined Labour in 2015 and the other, Roshan Salih some months prior to the meeting. There is a suggestion that these two were able to vote at that meeting, perhaps you'd like to deny it?
It's naive to believe that lobbying is just restricted to Israel..................... Arab states, USA, China, Russia...............everyone's at it! It may be an interesting to speculate why this ugly 'turf war' (if that's what it is) is being allowed to be fought out for the heart and mind of the Labour Party and who has allowed it?
This is another example why democracy is under threat. It's so complicated these days to understand the complexities of situations and the validity and independence of sources we get information from. The anti-semitism row in Labour looks rather more complicated and deeper than I first imagined. It does seem to me that, under the surface, there is something very unpleasant going on. All parties have lobbyists from all sides of the middle-east divide, isn't the question, who is allowing the Labour Party to be torn apart by the issue?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Be interesting if the three Tories go today and join the Magnificent 7

They have. News conference 1:15pm. No big surprise - there will likely be more in the coming days from Labour, the Conservatives and who knows (or cares really) about the Lib Dems.

 

[Blueronron]

They have. News conference 1:15pm. No big surprise - there will likely be more in the coming days from Labour, the Conservatives and who knows (or cares really) about the Lib Dems.

In fairness to Lib Dems Spaceman, I do believe they held the Tories in check when joint owners of the country

I am no fan of Clegg or side kick old man Compo now in charge, but honestly believe we would have been a lot worse under Call me Dave and Gideon

 

[GBJ]

It's so tedious when people trot out the 'cult' nonsense and then expect you to carry on reading what is likely to be drivel.

“It’s so tedious when people hit the nail on the head & describe our cult-like actions, as cult like actions”.

How very depressing that people's perception of UK politics is that apathy is seen as the thing to aim for.

Can’t decide whether this is hypocritical or ironic.

Did you read the part where I said I wanted better leaders & oppositions, because the entire current crop are ****?

People are in one of those rare moments where they see a real difference between the two main parties and one side of that divide sees a reason to be enthusiastic. Don't understand enthusiasm? Never mind label those that do a cult and carry on with the way things are if that suits you.

Of course you’re enthusiastic, the party has violently lurched to the far-left, which suits your own beliefs.

Tom Watson was/is on LBC today. He was asking people what could he do, to reclaim their votes. Almost every single call he took, was from Labour supporters, who said that the party had gone too far to the left, with the blame landing at Corbyn’s feet.

The left see it. Centrists see it. The right see it. The only people who don’t see it, are the people who don’t want to see it, because it fits in with their beliefs.

 

[blues exile]

I'm not on here as an apologist for some of the Israeli actions and policies in the middle-east, yet there does need to be a little balance here. You mention Joan Ryan's no confidence meeting and Al Jazeera's ( they are of course an Independent voice! ) exposé on her. What you strangely fail to mention are some of the events of that night. What about why two journalists from Press TV, the Iranian State broadcaster (aren't they banned in the UK?), why were they allowed to film the meeting? Isn't that banned under Labour Party rules? One of the journalists, Robert Carter had apparently joined Labour in 2015 and the other, Roshan Salih some months prior to the meeting. There is a suggestion that these two were able to vote at that meeting, perhaps you'd like to deny it?
It's naive to believe that lobbying is just restricted to Israel..................... Arab states, USA, China, Russia...............everyone's at it! It may be an interesting to speculate why this ugly 'turf war' (if that's what it is) is being allowed to be fought out for the heart and mind of the Labour Party and who has allowed it?
This is another example why democracy is under threat. It's so complicated these days to understand the complexities of situations and the validity and independence of sources we get information from. The anti-semitism row in Labour looks rather more complicated and deeper than I first imagined. It does seem to me that, under the surface, there is something very unpleasant going on. All parties have lobbyists from all sides of the middle-east divide, isn't the question, who is allowing the Labour Party to be torn apart by the issue?

They weren't 'allowed' to film the meeting, they did it surreptitiously, although personally I have no problems with the filming of meetings, as a truly democratic party, we should have nothing to hide. The CLP voted no confidence in her because she virtually stood as an independent in 2017, going out of her way to distance herself from the leadership. Those with longer memories will recall her exposure in the expenses scandal and her subsequent attempts to exempt expenses claims from the FOI act. She is self serving opportunist quite apart from her Israeli involvement.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

They weren't 'allowed' to film the meeting, they did it surreptitiously, although personally I have no problems with the filming of meetings, as a truly democratic party, we should have nothing to hide.

Is being surreptitious not the same thing as hiding something? Or is there a difference morally depending on who we are hiding things from?

Those with longer memories will recall her exposure in the expenses scandal and her subsequent attempts to exempt expenses claims from the FOI act. She is self serving opportunist quite apart from her Israeli involvement.

So if you don't believe the leader is right you should slavishly compromise or cast aside your own beliefs? This would make someone a more fit and proper legislator and member of a prospective government? Interesting.

Those with longer memories will recall her exposure in the expenses scandal and her subsequent attempts to exempt expenses claims from the FOI act. She is self serving opportunist quite apart from her Israeli involvement.

I don't remember her conduct in that scandal standing out from the crowd, in parliament. Still, forgive and forget for those who tow the party line eh? Worth keeping in reserve in case they have the temerity to deviate from the one true path.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

They weren't 'allowed' to film the meeting, they did it surreptitiously, although personally I have no problems with the filming of meetings, as a truly democratic party, we should have nothing to hide. The CLP voted no confidence in her because she virtually stood as an independent in 2017, going out of her way to distance herself from the leadership. Those with longer memories will recall her exposure in the expenses scandal and her subsequent attempts to exempt expenses claims from the FOI act. She is self serving opportunist quite apart from her Israeli involvement.

Were the two journalists members of the Labour Party and did they vote at that meeting?

 

[blues exile]

Were the two journalists members of the Labour Party and did they vote at that meeting?

I believe they were members and as such, fully entitled to vote. Labour is a democratic party.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I believe they were members and as such, fully entitled to vote. Labour is a democratic party.

So, you are telling me that these two journalists, sympathisers and supporters of Iran, were allowed to participate in the vote which Joan Ryan lost by 94 to 92 in a meeting with a, reportedly, deeply unpleasant atmosphere. The question one is bound to ask is, just how many other Iran sympathisers and Israel haters have you democratically welcomed into the Party? Then you are telling us all that there is no problem with anti-semitism in the Labour Party,

 

[blues exile]

So, you are telling me that these two journalists, sympathisers and supporters of Iran, were allowed to participate in the vote which Joan Ryan lost by 94 to 92 in a meeting with a, reportedly, deeply unpleasant atmosphere. The question one is bound to ask is, just how many other Iran sympathisers and Israel haters have you democratically welcomed into the Party? Then you are telling us all that there is no problem with anti-semitism in the Labour Party,

Are you saying that certain people should be banned from joining an organisation simply because they allegedly support a cause of which you disapprove? Do you seriously contend that all potential members should have to past some arbitrary test before they are allowed to join. If the meeting was unpleasant Ryan had only herself to blame for the contempt she had shown for the people who enabled her privileged life style.
The recent thorough investigation into antisemitism in the Labour party resulted in 12 expulsions out of a membership of nearly 400k. It would be nice if the Tories or that other insignificant rabble were to investigate as thoroughly but for some reason, the mecia aren't interested in that.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Are you saying that certain people should be banned from joining an organisation simply because they allegedly support a cause of which you disapprove? Do you seriously contend that all potential members should have to past some arbitrary test before they are allowed to join. If the meeting was unpleasant Ryan had only herself to blame for the contempt she has shown for the people who enabled her priveleged life style.
The recent thorough investigation into antisemitism in the Labour party resulted in 12 expulsions out of a membership of nearly 400k. It would be nice if the Tories or that other insignificant rabble were to investigate as thoroughly but for some reason, the mecia aren't interested in that.

One wonders what kind of measures the Labour Party has in place, to prevent infiltration of people with ideas which conflict with traditional Labour values? None??? I think the tone and content of the passage highlighted above, meeted out to a woman, for 34 years a member of the Party, adequatelty illustrates why many fearful, worried, distressed MP's and probably members are leaving the Party. I've mentioned before my belief that anti-semitism does exist in the Tory Party but perhaps you could inform me of how many Tory MP's have been de-selected, in a large part due to their support for Israel?
Anyway, you've had your thorough investigation, found your 12 anti-semites and booted them out of the party.................problem solved! No need then to pay any heed to your deputy leader, Tom Watson, who appears to disagree with you.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/18/chuka-umunna-and-other-mps-set-to-quit-labour-party

 

[blues exile]

One wonders what kind of measures the Labour Party has in place, to prevent infiltration of people with ideas which conflict with traditional Labour values? None??? I think the tone and content of the passage highlighted above, meeted out to a woman, for 34 years a member of the Party, adequatelty illustrates why many fearful, worried, distressed MP's and probably members are leaving the Party. I've mentioned before my belief that anti-semitism does exist in the Tory Party but perhaps you could inform me of how many Tory MP's have been de-selected, in a large part due to their support for Israel?

Of course many thousands of ex members rejoined the party once a leader was elected who espoused traditional Labour values making it the largest political party in Europe. This has put the membership at odds with much of the self entitled Blairite PLP whose cosy little world has been shaken up by a blast of democracy they were not expecting. No MP of either party has been deselected as far as I know but of course the Tories do not have an open system like Labour so their skulduggery takes place off screen as it were. I do hope that the next GE will be fought with fully committed genuine Labour candidates rather than careerists who just picked a party where they thought they stood more chance of boarding the gravy train.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Derek Hatton et al. ? We've conveniently dropped the question of anti-semitism, we just bring out the old party propaganda.............. 'largest political party in Europe?' (we'll see in a year or two!). I assume Labour member Roshan Salih, who voted in the Joan Ryan meeting, is espousing traditional Labour values when he reportedly called Israel a 'terror state.' Yep, I think people are starting to feel that 'blast of democracy'................living if fear of de-selection unless one follows the party line. MP's are a mixed bunch, typical of society, there are some good ones, bad ones, career ones, consciencious ones, useless ones. The MP I would want is one that would generally follow the policies of the party I had voted for but ABOVE all someone who had an independent mind to ocassionally follow his own conscience. The idea of your party full of 'yes men' candidates, frightens the life out of me.
I've found the last couple of days events shocking as the mask of Corbyn's Labour Party slips a bit. If you knew how much I hate the Conservative Party, I've fought against them for a good part of my life (when I lived in the UK). Yet, and I REALLY can't believe I'm typing this...... forced between the choice of them or Corbyn's Labour Party, I'd very sadly choose the former. I'd prefer the devil I know to the one the present culture of the Labour Party is proposing. It should be deeply worrying to the Labour Party that people like me are thinking these thoughts (where are you going to get the extra votes required to gain a majority, if it's not from people like me?)......................................... but I don't suppose it worries you in the least.

 

[Colorado Shrimper]

I assume Labour member Roshan Salih, who voted in the Joan Ryan meeting, is espousing traditional Labour values when he reportedly called Israel a 'terror state.'

I don't know if these are traditional Labour values, but he's not wrong.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

The UK needs a strong and fit for purpose Opposition and the current Labour party is not up to the mark. This is a football forum and if this (The PLP) was a team them JC would be sacked for his performance over the last few years.