Jimmy Carr

[Pubey]

So is tax avoidance morally wrong? Was D-Cam hypocritical to call him out? Would you avoid tax if you were earning big bucks? Should loop-holes be closed? Can loop-holes be closed?

Feel free to discuss here, except BarnaBlue.

 

[blues_r_best]

No, only thing Jimmy was wrong of is not telling them press/gov, that was he is(was) doing is legal unlike MP fiddling their expenses and apologising.

Politicians trying to claim some sort of moral superiority sticks in the throat slightly. Say you think it's wrong and you'll close the loopholes, don't try and claim a moral high ground over someone doing what is legal.

And also with David Cameron, to do a Barna, http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/20/cameron-family-tax-havens

 

[MK Shrimper]

He's morally wrong if he has or would make jokes about people avoiding paying their own taxes - otherwise if these loopholes exist then he's got absolutely nothing to feel aggrieved about. I'm sure Cameron's Eton buddies use them to their full advantage.

Is it morally wrong - possibly. How much of our taxes only get spent on wars we can't win or propping up a disintegrating economy?

And Carr is now only backtracking because he's got found out.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So is tax avoidance morally wrong? Was D-Cam hypocritical to call him out? Would you avoid tax if you were earning big bucks? Should loop-holes be closed? Can loop-holes be closed?

Feel free to discuss here, except BarnaBlue.

Morally wrong? Yes.Illegal? No.Next question? :winking:

 

[TrueBlue]

Jimmy Carr is a **** he ain't funny he is just a ****

 

[Jam_Man]

Cameron should shut the **** up the condescending ****. Whats it got to do with him?

Everyone wants to pay less tax and if its legal its legal.

 

[hockleyeast1964]

if i could cut my tax bill by 48% i would.Unfortunately the self righteous little git does a joke about it and then gets caught.I hope he enjoys his next gig,hopefully take that are the warm up band.

 

[Davros]

It is morally wrong, but all these commentators coming out and saying tax avoidance is as bad if not worse than benefit cheats is annoying. If someone only pays 1% tax, that is more beneficial to 'the pot' than someone claiming £200 a week they are not entitled to, whichever way you try and spin it!

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

Its ones duty to ones family to avoid paying tax,good on him but then everyone else has to pay more to make up his short fall,ohh im torn now.

 

[Napster]

I feel sorry for the multimillionaire.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It is morally wrong, but all these commentators coming out and saying tax avoidance is as bad if not worse than benefit cheats is annoying. If someone only pays 1% tax, that is more beneficial to 'the pot' than someone claiming £200 a week they are not entitled to, whichever way you try and spin it!

"More than £16 billion in means-tested benefits and tax credits currently goes unclaimed (in the UK) every year**" whereas "Tax avoidance costs(the) UK economy £69.9 billion a year."
Benefit fraud in the UK is currently estimated by the Government at £1.1bn annually.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_office201022

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/tax-avoidance-justice-network

 

[hockleyeast1964]

barnablue,you certainly know your stuff!.Can't you get on eggheads and replace that **** cj?:winking:

 

[Davros]

"More than £16 billion in means-tested benefits and tax credits currently goes unclaimed (in the UK) every year**" whereas "Tax avoidance costs(the) UK economy £69.9 billion a year."
Benefit fraud in the UK is currently estimated by the Government at £1.1bn annually.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_office201022

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/tax-avoidance-justice-network

Benefit fraud - illegal

Tax avoidance - many legal loopholes

Its also worth remembering that the things that Mr Carr then goes and buys with his saved millions will be VAT'd at 20% anyway

 

[Mad Cyril]

If Jimmy Car gets run over then they should call the Jersey ambulance service.

 

[Kent Shrimper]

barnablue,you certainly know your stuff!.Can't you get on eggheads and replace that **** cj?:winking:

Out of interest does anyone know when the Zone Eggheads is on?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

"More than £16 billion in means-tested benefits and tax credits currently goes unclaimed (in the UK) every year**" whereas "Tax avoidance costs(the) UK economy £69.9 billion a year."
Benefit fraud in the UK is currently estimated by the Government at £1.1bn annually.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_office201022

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/tax-avoidance-justice-network

Barna, you can chalk some of that £69.9b down to me - I have an ISA account AND a pension.

I suspect the issue with Carr is that he's using artificial transactions to avoid tax.

BTW, no-one knows the real figures for benefit fraud or tax avoidance. They are figures come up with by economists (aka guessing).

 

[blues_r_best]

"More than £16 billion in means-tested benefits and tax credits currently goes unclaimed (in the UK) every year**" whereas "Tax avoidance costs(the) UK economy £69.9 billion a year."
Benefit fraud in the UK is currently estimated by the Government at £1.1bn annually.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_office201022

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/tax-avoidance-justice-network

Surely tax avoidance costs the economy nothing as it's money that isn't owed to the government through it's own laws, unlike tax evasion.

That newstatesmen article is a mess of avoidance/evasion errors.

And checking the source it says that £69.9 billion is lost through evasion, not avoidance.

And how much money has Jimmy raised for the government through the VAT on his DVDs and live shows?

I trust that Barna has also never bought a 2 for 1 deal on an item from a shop, as the government would have lost out on the VAT money.

 

[blues_r_best]

Question for Barna,

Do you pay more tax than you have to? Or do you just pay the required amount?

 

[Neil_F]

"More than £16 billion in means-tested benefits and tax credits currently goes unclaimed (in the UK) every year**" whereas "Tax avoidance costs(the) UK economy £69.9 billion a year."
Benefit fraud in the UK is currently estimated by the Government at £1.1bn annually.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_office201022

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/tax-avoidance-justice-network

I've stopped reading newspapers and news magazines. I've found that they have no clue about topics that I know a lot about. On that basis, I have extrapolated to all the topics I know nothing about (many) to determine that journalists get everything wrong.

The link to the New Statesman article has a headline of £69.9bn loss through tax avoidance. It refers to a report that gives a £69.9bn loss for tax evasion not avoidance. It is also a very specific type of evasion: that related to the "shadow economy". So this is the tax revenue lost on activites such as prostitution, gun running and drug dealing. Looking at the methodology, it neglects the dynamic effects of taxation on the shadow economy. For example, if prostitution were legalised, would total earnings be as high if it were subject to VAT and income tax?

On Jimmy Carr, this is a fairly standard scheme that HMRC has adequate legal basis to shutdown. They are entirely disfunctional though and so haven't yet done so. It almost seems as though they are publically shaming people by proxy rather than incur the cost of litigation.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I've stopped reading newspapers and news magazines. I've found that they have no clue about topics that I know a lot about. On that basis, I have extrapolated to all the topics I know nothing about (many) to determine that journalists get everything wrong.

That's an inconsistent approach: you still read Barna's posts.