Johnson resigns as Shadow Chancellor

[Tangled up in Blue]

So in summary Barna, all the problems in the last 60 years have been caused by the Conservatives, whilst good old Labour have been called in to sort them out.

Couldn't have put it better myself.:winking:

You missed the late 70’s and 80’s when people prospered, the Country was in good shape, and Maggie had crushed Scargill and his Union henchman and done away with the strike mentality that was ruining the Country.

Fortunately,as you say,I was no longer working in the UK at that time(though I came back to visit often enough).I don't think people in the industrial North remember the 80's as being a particulary good time for them,though.

 

[Neil_F]

And because a demand exists for a service/product its method of production should not be scrutinised ?

That would be up to the purchaser. I don't really understand what your question is to be honest.

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

So, in summary, people on here, of whom it's obvious what their voting intentions are, simply tow their respective party's line. I'm glad that's all settled then.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

To be perfectly honest I don't think either party are capable of running the country well. Invariably the periods of conservative rule end in mass unemployment and a widening gap between poor & and rich, before labour come in create more employment but in the process spend the country into huge debt so the tories come in and start making cuts...and so on and so on.

Something new is required, a change in thinking, and making massive cuts then going back to how we were before isn't going to solve it.

So, in summary, people on here, of whom it's obvious what their voting intentions are, simply tow their respective party's line. I'm glad that's all settled then.

True.Though I thought Drastic Sturgeon raised an interesting point(in a comradely way).:winking:

 

[Dick Bate's Protege]

Try 1951,1970,1979 and 2010 just to mention a few post war dates.

I heard Mickey Mouse wears a BarnaBlue wrist watch.

 

[number11]

My reply, which you quoted, was to CS and not in answer to your original question.Do try and keep up.:whistling:

King of Berks....I wouldn't worry, Barna is a great fan of selective responses and evidently he has struggled to justify his original response to your initial question.... Maybe he is waiting for guidance from the Guardian.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I'm happy to let history be the judge(and the next GE result).:winking:

Or, in other words, you have no reasoning.

 

[Napster]

What I want to know is the answer to the perennial question:

































Bart or Flavs?

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

My reply, which you quoted, was to CS and not in answer to your original question.Do try and keep up.:whistling:

True, but it was a reply to CS justifying your answer to my question, so the point's still pertinent. Do try to keep up

 

[osymandus]

What I want to know is the answer to the perennial question:
































Bart or Flavs?

This questions dwarfs all overs of our time of course.Flavs got to be.

 

[osymandus]

That would be up to the purchaser. I don't really understand what your question is to be honest.

Actually i would say the responsibility lies with both parties .
Ok ann example , the industry of slavery (yes its extreme ) . Very profitable very hard to get rid of . But provided a large profit and a service for those who asked for it and required it .
A less extreme one the cheap DVD's you buy off people in pubs , provides you (lets say 75% given good copying methods).
Each of course has an impact on the society it's in and because the need is met for the purchaser does that give it is right to exist ?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

True, but it was a reply to CS justifying your answer to my question, so the point's still pertinent. Do try to keep up

The economy while obviously important is not (and should never be) the sole yardstick to judge a party's perfomance in office by.
I would remind you of the raft of private members bills passed while Roy Jenkins was Home Secretary in the 60's legalising homosexuality between consenting adults etc

 

[Neil_F]

Actually i would say the responsibility lies with both parties .
Ok ann example , the industry of slavery (yes its extreme ) . Very profitable very hard to get rid of . But provided a large profit and a service for those who asked for it and required it .
A less extreme one the cheap DVD's you buy off people in pubs , provides you (lets say 75% given good copying methods).
Each of course has an impact on the society it's in and because the need is met for the purchaser does that give it is right to exist ?

What are you talking about??? I was commenting on the economic justification for labour rates.

Are you seriously arguing that the financial services industry shouldn't exist?

 

[osymandus]

What are you talking about??? I was commenting on the economic justification for labour rates.

Are you seriously arguing that the financial services industry shouldn't exist?

No why does everyone assume im taking a polar opposite stance to their point ?!? I know your saying the justification for labour rates , my examples were to show that what your stating that a profit driven service or product does not justify its exisitance because it provides these services or simply makes a economic profit, but it can have social implications .

Good lord does every live in some binary world ?

 

[Neil_F]

Maybe. To be honest I usually struggle to understand what you mean.

I think it's all the talk of new economic models and impacts on society...

 

[osymandus]

Maybe. To be honest I usually struggle to understand what you mean.

I think it's all the talk of new economic models and impacts on society...

Well people do seem to separate the two and think their unrelated for some odd reason.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

The economy while obviously important is not (and should never be) the sole yardstick to judge a party's perfomance in office by.
I would remind you of the raft of private members bills passed while Roy Jenkins was Home Secretary in the 60's legalising homosexuality between consenting adults etc

WTF? I'll remind you, if I may, of the original question...

Not old enough to remember, but has there been a time when Labour has left the economy in a better condition than when they took over?

Now, one final time, do you think you could actually answer the question you were asked, or would you rather just go ahead and make a fool of yourself by ignoring everything that doesn't help your argument?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

WTF? I'll remind you, if I may, of the original question...




Now, one final time, do you think you could actually answer the question you were asked, or would you rather just go ahead and make a fool of yourself by ignoring everything that doesn't help your argument?

Nothing wrong with my memory, thanks.Just your interpretation of modern British history.
In 1951 the Labour Govenment bequeathed the NHS to a grateful nation,amongst a great deal of other monumental, landmark legislation.In 1964 Labour inherited a clapped out, unmodernised economy from Churchill,Macmillan and Home.A Tory Government brought to its knees by a squalid sexual scandal(I can still remember TW3-chortle).In 1974 Heath asked the British public Who Governs?To which the reply was not you mate.
You'll remember before last year's GE there was a worldwide economic and banking crisis which caused many countries(not just the UK) to run up record levels of debt.

CF My reply to CanveyShrimper.That answers your question to my satisfaction, if not yours,perhaps.
As Nye Bevan said: "The Tories are lower than vermin"

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

CF My reply to CanveyShrimper.That answers your question to my satisfaction, if not yours,perhaps.

Ok, I'll try this again very slowly, as you're obviously having difficulties understanding. The original question was....

has there been a time when Labour has left the economy in a better condition than when they took over?

Now, whilst the NHS is a wonderful thing, it's NOT the economy, so could you possibly, just for me, answer the question within the criteria set out?
As for the point about 2010 being a worldwide recession, well, maybe, but even so I think it's pretty hard to describe the economy being in a better position than it was prior to 1997. Out of interest, as we were in recession back then, did you blame the Tories for it? I seem to recall that being worldwide too.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

WTF? I'll remind you, if I may, of the original question...




Now, one final time, do you think you could actually answer the question you were asked, or would you rather just go ahead and make a fool of yourself by ignoring everything that doesn't help your argument?

Nothing wrong with my memory, thanks.Just your interpretation of modern British history.
In 1951 the Labour Govenment bequeathed the NHS to a grateful nation,amongst a great deal of other monumental, landmark legislation.In 1964 Labour inherited a clapped out, unmodernised economy from Churchill,Macmillan and Home.A Tory Government brought to its knees by a squalid sexual scandal(I can still remember TW3-chortle).In 1974 Heath asked the British public Who Governs?To which the reply was not you mate.
You'll remember before last year's GE there was a worldwide economic and banking crisis which caused many countries(not just the UK) to run up record levels of debt.

CF My reply to CanveyShrimper.That answers your question to my satisfaction, if not yours,perhaps.
As Nye Bevan said: "The Tories are lower than vermin"

Ok, I'll try this again very slowly, as you're obviously having difficulties understanding. The original question was....




Now, whilst the NHS is a wonderful thing, it's NOT the economy, so could you possibly, just for me, answer the question within the criteria set out?

You only mentioned one criterion-the economy.I said that I preferred to use various criteria.
See all the dates mentioned above for my answer to your question.

As for the point about 2010 being a worldwide recession, well, maybe, but even so I think it's pretty hard to describe the economy being in a better position than it was prior to 1997. Out of interest, as we were in recession back then, did you blame the Tories for it? I seem to recall that being worldwide too.

The Tories in 1997 were a clapped out Government under Major.As I said above not every economic consideration is necessarily a political consideration.