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Just another Winding up petition

THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK

Life President⭐
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
12,005
Location
SHOEBURY
HM Revenue and Customs issued a petition to wind up the club on October 14th 2015, by the High Court of Justice. The hearing will be on November 30th at 10.30am.

This will be news to many of you, as we have had so many appearances in Court, that it hardly makes the news nowadays. It's gone from front page, to a little snippet hidden inside the Echo.
 
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kentblues

Director⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
5,936
Firstly well done for putting this boring little snippet in the finances section.

We know the HMRC's chosen approach to this- using the courts as an unpaid debt collection agency as a first rather than last resort- and we have had all the boring arguments from the full spectrum of contributors- from those who love and admire HMRC and all they do, to others at the other end of viewpoint.

Rightly or wrongly the club I think now just treat it as business as usual and so the pointless and tiresome process continues. What we do know is no one on here knows where the fault lies although of course they will pretend otherwise.

The nearest thing to a certainty we have is that it will be paid/settled yet again..until the next time..
 
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Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
15,217
Location
Immersed in the accounts
Its the third this year according to the timeline on the Gazette article, Prior to march, nothing since August 2013.

It will be another case of waiting for income (Saturdays game) to pay the bill as late as possible.

I don't blame either party, monies tight, bills get shuffled, HMRC get twitchy every so often.

To be honest whilst the local population (except the 5-6k who are turning up) are largely ambivalent about the club, we will continue to struggle without additional non matchday income / a rich carefree benefactoer
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,166
Location
London
Bye bye Bentley.

I think this just goes to show how important
(a) cup runs are
(b) developing young talent to sell is
 

Neil 15GB

Schoolboy
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
51
Firstly well done for putting this boring little snippet in the finances section.

We know the HMRC's chosen approach to this- using the courts as an unpaid debt collection agency as a first rather than last resort- and we have had all the boring arguments from the full spectrum of contributors- from those who love and admire HMRC and all they do, to others at the other end of viewpoint.

Rightly or wrongly the club I think now just treat it as business as usual and so the pointless and tiresome process continues. What we do know is no one on here knows where the fault lies although of course they will pretend otherwise.

The nearest thing to a certainty we have is that it will be paid/settled yet again..until the next time..


I find this quite unbelievable. Everyone in business knows that the one organisation you never default on is HMRC. SUFC are serial offenders and what that means is that the club is not paying its staff and covering its obligations for tax, NI and pension. Disgraceful. Ron thinks that HMRC is some sort of bank..........a dangerous game that will eventually catch up with him.
 

Bielzibubz

President
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
4,757
Location
Eastwood, the posh part of Rayleigh..
I find this quite unbelievable. Everyone in business knows that the one organisation you never default on is HMRC. SUFC are serial offenders and what that means is that the club is not paying its staff and covering its obligations for tax, NI and pension. Disgraceful. Ron thinks that HMRC is some sort of bank..........a dangerous game that will eventually catch up with him.

I beg to differ. Ron may be a lot of things but stupid he isn't. I'd wager he knows exactly what he's doing, how much is owed and when it'll be paid. If you know 100% that you can pay the bill during the six week period before the petition hearing date of each winding up order there is bugger all HMRC can do about it and it's a game you can't lose. That is of course dependent on actually being able to pay in time. Something Ron has always been able to do before and I dare say will continue to do until continuous and reliable revenue streams negate the need to do so.
 

Mick

Life President
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,142
Firstly well done for putting this boring little snippet in the finances section.

We know the HMRC's chosen approach to this- using the courts as an unpaid debt collection agency as a first rather than last resort- ...

What do you expect them to do? If payment of taxes did not have a deadline, when do you think Ron would pay up ?

I'm sure the courts are not unpaid and that costs are incurred.
 

mattitouk

Life President
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
6,468
Location
RTW
Talking of revenue streams, what do you imagine would be the waiting time that Southend would have to wait before they recieve their share of the away gate receipts? 30 days? like most invoices? or would you imagine its just a few days or a week later through some kind of money transfer set up between other league clubs.
 

Mick

Life President
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,142
Talking of revenue streams, what do you imagine would be the waiting time that Southend would have to wait before they recieve their share of the away gate receipts? 30 days? like most invoices? or would you imagine its just a few days or a week later through some kind of money transfer set up between other league clubs.

I would expect it to be handled by the Football League to avoid disputes between clubs and to provide leverage on clubs to pay promptly-ish. No idea if this is the case or not but it makes sense with every club only having to deal with one party - the League.
 

Lord Football

Blues on Tour
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
3,532
Location
Sunny Southend on Sea
I would expect it to be handled by the Football League to avoid disputes between clubs and to provide leverage on clubs to pay promptly-ish. No idea if this is the case or not but it makes sense with every club only having to deal with one party - the League.


Away clubs don't get away receipts for Football League games and haven't for many years (another money grabbing example of the big Premier League clubs). We'd only get receipts for FA Cup games, which is why club usually agree a pricing policy in advance.
 

Mick

Life President
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,142
Away clubs don't get away receipts for Football League games and haven't for many years (another money grabbing example of the big Premier League clubs). We'd only get receipts for FA Cup games, which is why club usually agree a pricing policy in advance.

How does it work for away tickets ? A club sends us a load of tickets for our game at their place, we sell them. We then have to pay the home club. Do we get a percentage for the work involved selling them and, possibly, credit card charges ?
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
16,267
Talking of revenue streams, what do you imagine would be the waiting time that Southend would have to wait before they recieve their share of the away gate receipts? 30 days? like most invoices? or would you imagine its just a few days or a week later through some kind of money transfer set up between other league clubs.

Not difficult to find out:

Rule 22 f:

The net gate receipts shall be approximately divided immediately after the match. A full
statement of account for the match shall be prepared by the Club playing at its home
ground, on the prescribed Statement of Receipts and Payments Form, and payment shall
be made in full to the Visiting Club and The Association within 14 days of the match. The
Statement of Receipts and Payments Form must be signed by a Director or Football
Secretary of the home Club. A Club failing to comply with this clause may be ordered to
pay a fine and any other punishment, including non-admission in the future to the
Competition, may be imposed as determined by the Professional Game Board.
 

Up the Shrimpers

Life President
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
8,012
How does it work for away tickets ? A club sends us a load of tickets for our game at their place, we sell them. We then have to pay the home club. Do we get a percentage for the work involved selling them and, possibly, credit card charges ?

I think I remember reading about this a few years ago on here? I think a figure of 5% commission for selling other teams away tickets was an 'agreed' price between clubs.
 

mattitouk

Life President
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
6,468
Location
RTW
Thanks Londonblue. Just to clarify, the above ruling only applies to the Fa Cup games and not league or JPT fixtures etc.
 
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
207
Location
North Wales
Sorry to be pedantic, but actually it's a Winding Up Petition. It only becomes a Winding Up Order if the judge decides to make the order.

With regard to HMRC issuing winding up petitions like confetti, I was speaking to a company recently in North Wales who had always paid on time, however, they were 3 weeks late for the first time ever and HMRC turned up to secure the stock - no court order required but a charge by HMRC of £75.00.

Southend United on the other hand don't have stock you can sell easily so, HMRC, will automatically issue a Petition - particularly if your previous record is a bit ropey.

Meanwhile, if you're Vodafone...
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,166
Location
London
Sorry to be pedantic, but actually it's a Winding Up Petition. It only becomes a Winding Up Order if the judge decides to make the order.

With regard to HMRC issuing winding up petitions like confetti, I was speaking to a company recently in North Wales who had always paid on time, however, they were 3 weeks late for the first time ever and HMRC turned up to secure the stock - no court order required but a charge by HMRC of £75.00.

Southend United on the other hand don't have stock you can sell easily so, HMRC, will automatically issue a Petition - particularly if your previous record is a bit ropey.

Meanwhile, if you're Vodafone...

Or Starbucks/Amazon/Google.......

The difference between Vodafone/Starbucks/Amazon/Google is that they actively plan their tax liabilities so as to minimise it. I don't think there's been any suggestions that they have failed to pay tax that was legally due.

I don't think we are disputing that this tax is due.
 
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