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dannypav

President
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
5,999
A few weeks ago there was a thread about how well we are doing ( or not , depending on your viewpoint ).
IIRC several people felt it was too early to judge and we should wait until 15 games to give us a clearer picture.
Well here we are , and if we look at most of the threads in the past two weeks , many have a decidedly 'doom and gloom' nature about them with PB coming in for some fierce criticism.

Now personally I have been hugely disappointed with the past few weeks and our inability to finish teams off.
I also wasn't overly jumping for joy during our winning streak as the signs were not all positive.

But , here we are , 15 games in , in 9th place and a point or so from a play off position.

Yes I understand we have dropped several points recently and need to address the 'slump' we are in as soon as possible , but many of our pre-season predictions had our realistic ambitions set as 'play offs' and we are only just short if that.

Now this post is far from praising Brown and the team as I think both can do much better , but we are 9th people and ( based solely on points gained ) there are 15 teams worse off than us right now !
How must their fans be feeling !

So all is far from well and things need to improve , but if we are really that bad then so are those 15 teams below us.

Keep the faith.
 
I love this club with a passion that will never stop ! What I cannot stand right now is having to watch the same dross week in week out. We have as many have stated probably on paper one of the best teams in the league in individual positions when they are played completely out of position or given instructions that either they are not happy with or incapable of carrying out we see the end result of clueless periods of play which results in negativity and ultimately dropped points.

I agree with your point above that right now we are in or around the mix but my fear is that without a rapid change in understanding and passion we will slip away into mediocrity !!
 
Despite poor results, Im not sure I'd call our football dross. 3 seasons of Sturrocks football was far poorer to watch than what we see now, its the results that arent as pleasing.

What there is though is a complete lack of confidence and belief which is leading to stuff like time wasting at home in the first half.

We need a spark to get us going again, hard to see what that might be at the moment.
 
Yes, perspective required - there are no truths only interpretations said somebody famous sometime ago - or even better 'try to see it my way, do I have to keep on talking tillI can't go on" (M & L).

Anyway, you get the point, I trust. :unsure:
 
Despite poor results, Im not sure I'd call our football dross. 3 seasons of Sturrocks football was far poorer to watch than what we see now, its the results that arent as pleasing.

What there is though is a complete lack of confidence and belief which is leading to stuff like time wasting at home in the first half.

We need a spark to get us going again, hard to see what that might be at the moment.

FA Cup week will be our decider I think. A healthy win and we'll regain a bit of confidence, a loss and well.....bye bye PB. Scrape a 1-0 or 2-1 then the malaise will continue sadly.
 
I get the point totally !! Dross may have been a little harsh but the lack of passion and confidence as Jam pointed out is what frustrates me the most. This leads to indecision and some players don't have it in their locker to pull themselves around in the heat of the game !! Agree also that a "Spark" is very much needed to re ignite their passion and hopefully some self belief in their clear ability to play the game.
 
Sorry I am excluding Weston from the Clear Ability quote I don't see that he is any better than Mr Straker unfortunately !!
 
We are close , very close , to being a team that gains promotion this season. We are capable, i think we all know that , its just finishing that is missing. The 1st half against Exeter was awesome , with a strong midfield bombing forward and creating lots of chances , just the luck wasnt with us added to a bit of composure in front of goal.

When our strikers bang in a hatful tonight against Harlow they will be brimming with confidence and i'm certain our results will start to flourish. Top 7 ? I'm still looking at top 3 .... theres nothing ive seen that we can say are any better than us. Have a bit of faith and if the doom merchants are jeering at Roots Hall next match , out sing them and get the cheers ringing around + give our players the confidence to express themselves ( rather than hiding from the boo boys abuse )

:loyalsupporter::clap::loyalsupporter::clap::loyalsupporter::clap::loyalsupporter:
 
Despite poor results, Im not sure I'd call our football dross. 3 seasons of Sturrocks football was far poorer to watch than what we see now, its the results that arent as pleasing.

Whilst I agree with most of your post, I pull you up on this. I preferred Sturrock's football. I have never been precious about pretty passing stuff, I like goals, and a lot of people are the same. I remember well however that home performances under Sturrock were just as poor, and I think the split amongst fans on his methods generally can be put down those who go away and those who don't. Watching Southend away from home under Sturrock was really enjoyable.

I'm not happy with the way we're playing and few are, but I think the bigger picture needs to be looked at - Brown has improved us off the pitch and has increased the value of our team. With us out of two cups already, we may need to sell a player or two to break even.
 
I would certainly agree that going out of both competitions at the first round has not helped (yes, I know it is 28 years or more since we progressed in the League Cup).
 
I would certainly agree that going out of both competitions at the first round has not helped (yes, I know it is 28 years or more since we progressed in the League Cup).

Erm, are you forgetting a small victory that happened on the 7/11/06 Ratty :stunned:
 
A few weeks ago there was a thread about how well we are doing ( or not , depending on your viewpoint ).
IIRC several people felt it was too early to judge and we should wait until 15 games to give us a clearer picture.
Well here we are , and if we look at most of the threads in the past two weeks , many have a decidedly 'doom and gloom' nature about them with PB coming in for some fierce criticism.

Now personally I have been hugely disappointed with the past few weeks and our inability to finish teams off.
I also wasn't overly jumping for joy during our winning streak as the signs were not all positive.

But , here we are , 15 games in , in 9th place and a point or so from a play off position.

Yes I understand we have dropped several points recently and need to address the 'slump' we are in as soon as possible , but many of our pre-season predictions had our realistic ambitions set as 'play offs' and we are only just short if that.

Now this post is far from praising Brown and the team as I think both can do much better , but we are 9th people and ( based solely on points gained ) there are 15 teams worse off than us right now !
How must their fans be feeling !

So all is far from well and things need to improve , but if we are really that bad then so are those 15 teams below us.

Keep the faith.

I'm with you on this Danny. I didn't post over the weekend or yesterday because after the match it was pretty clear that SZ would be buzzing with brassed off supporters and truthfully I find that that only makes me feel worse than I did when I left the match. Your post has reflected a balanced view in my opinion without getting too emotive. Thank you for posting, it has cheered me up no end.
 
Despite poor results, Im not sure I'd call our football dross. 3 seasons of Sturrocks football was far poorer to watch than what we see now, its the results that arent as pleasing.

I totally disagree. The football was superior under Sturrock. Yes there were too many awful games when the ball didn't stick but if we got the ball down in the opposition half we attacked with purpose, with pace and with incision. Three things decidedly missing from the Brown era. We had a cutting edge and plenty of flair with the likes of Hall and Mohsni in the side.

Sure, it wasn't pretty when the ball didn't stick or even when the ball was initially played long, but at least there was the comfort that if it did stick that there was something then worth watching.

The current football, the first half against Exeter aside, is insipid. Which players in the current side can get you out of your seat?

There's no aesthetic beauty whatsoever in Atkinson, who plays in blinkers, playing a poorly weighted pass backwards to Williams' wrong foot meaning that he has to shuffle it towards Prosser who panics as there is an attacker 10 yards away meaning he has to rush a backpass to Bentley.

There's no superiority of football when Bentley rolls it out to White, who just plays it square in the vague direction of Prosser who has never played an aesthetically appealing pass in his life. Yet it's Prosser who sees most of the ball in our current system.

We played two pieces of good football the entire 90 minutes, one when Timlin played a first time 5 yard angled forward(!) pass and surged forward to pick up the return ball; the other was some Timlin instigated one touch play down the left, although I think Williams failed to put in a decent cross. The rest of it was complete dross which didn't open up the defence of a very poor side.

Back in the Sturrock era if we got the ball down in the opposition half we had Clohessy linking up with Tomlin and the season before that Blair and even Josh Simpson, working little triangles down the right. That's football. Incisive, passes bisecting opposition defenders and getting Clohessy to the bye-line to put in a cross for Corr peeling off his man or Kane Ferdinand making a late unnoticed dart into the area. How often did we get anyone overlapping, getting ahead of the ball Saturday? How often was there that movement to open up defences? Where was the geometry, the opening up of angles? That's passing football and we played far more of it under Sturrock far all the long hoofs we undoubtedly also played.

Who's making the late runs forward like Kane Ferdinand? Who can beat a man like Ryan Hall, like Mohsni and open up space? Who plays the pretty one-twos? Only Timlin changes the angle of the attack or injects any pace into a move.

Our "passing" along the backline is inane. It doesn't achieve anything except maybe wasting time. It doesn't probe, it's too laboured to stretch the opposition. It's utterly predictable. This adds up to it being dire. In fact I don't even think it is passing, we're nervously shuffling the ball in the vague direction of someone in the same colour shirt. There's no artistry. You are completely deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Get Timlin on the ball in midfield, let Corr come short and link up play, get Leonard in midfield surging forward, let's see more of Worrall running into gaps.

We are close , very close , to being a team that gains promotion this season. We are capable, i think we all know that , its just finishing that is missing. The 1st half against Exeter was awesome , with a strong midfield bombing forward and creating lots of chances , just the luck wasnt with us added to a bit of composure in front of goal.

When our strikers bang in a hatful tonight against Harlow they will be brimming with confidence and i'm certain our results will start to flourish. Top 7 ? I'm still looking at top 3 .... theres nothing ive seen that we can say are any better than us. Have a bit of faith and if the doom merchants are jeering at Roots Hall next match , out sing them and get the cheers ringing around + give our players the confidence to express themselves ( rather than hiding from the boo boys abuse )

:loyalsupporter::clap::loyalsupporter::clap::loyalsupporter::clap::loyalsupporter:

Going forward first half against Exeter was good attacking football, but we were open as anything and a half decent team would have punished us for the acres of space. Admittedly we're League Two so there aren't many half decent teams but whilst I'd much rather watch that type of football than the dross we've endured most of this season, I'm not fully convinced that if we play like that we'll make the top 3.

Whilst I agree with most of your post, I pull you up on this. I preferred Sturrock's football. I have never been precious about pretty passing stuff, I like goals, and a lot of people are the same. I remember well however that home performances under Sturrock were just as poor, and I think the split amongst fans on his methods generally can be put down those who go away and those who don't. Watching Southend away from home under Sturrock was really enjoyable.

I'm not happy with the way we're playing and few are, but I think the bigger picture needs to be looked at - Brown has improved us off the pitch and has increased the value of our team. With us out of two cups already, we may need to sell a player or two to break even.

How has he improved us off the pitch - is this the doing up the canteen? I do think the medical side of the club seems to have improved (although we don't appear as fit as last season).

I don't see how he has increased the value of the team.

I have no sympathy if we need to sell a player or two because we are out of the cup before we budgeted. Brown picked weakened teams. I argued against it at the time and pointed out the financial ramifications.
 
I totally disagree. The football was superior under Sturrock. Yes there were too many awful games when the ball didn't stick but if we got the ball down in the opposition half we attacked with purpose, with pace and with incision. Three things decidedly missing from the Brown era. We had a cutting edge and plenty of flair with the likes of Hall and Mohsni in the side.

Sure, it wasn't pretty when the ball didn't stick or even when the ball was initially played long, but at least there was the comfort that if it did stick that there was something then worth watching.

The current football, the first half against Exeter aside, is insipid. Which players in the current side can get you out of your seat?

There's no aesthetic beauty whatsoever in Atkinson, who plays in blinkers, playing a poorly weighted pass backwards to Williams' wrong foot meaning that he has to shuffle it towards Prosser who panics as there is an attacker 10 yards away meaning he has to rush a backpass to Bentley.

There's no superiority of football when Bentley rolls it out to White, who just plays it square in the vague direction of Prosser who has never played an aesthetically appealing pass in his life. Yet it's Prosser who sees most of the ball in our current system.

We played two pieces of good football the entire 90 minutes, one when Timlin played a first time 5 yard angled forward(!) pass and surged forward to pick up the return ball; the other was some Timlin instigated one touch play down the left, although I think Williams failed to put in a decent cross. The rest of it was complete dross which didn't open up the defence of a very poor side.

Back in the Sturrock era if we got the ball down in the opposition half we had Clohessy linking up with Tomlin and the season before that Blair and even Josh Simpson, working little triangles down the right. That's football. Incisive, passes bisecting opposition defenders and getting Clohessy to the bye-line to put in a cross for Corr peeling off his man or Kane Ferdinand making a late unnoticed dart into the area. How often did we get anyone overlapping, getting ahead of the ball Saturday? How often was there that movement to open up defences? Where was the geometry, the opening up of angles? That's passing football and we played far more of it under Sturrock far all the long hoofs we undoubtedly also played.

Who's making the late runs forward like Kane Ferdinand? Who can beat a man like Ryan Hall, like Mohsni and open up space? Who plays the pretty one-twos? Only Timlin changes the angle of the attack or injects any pace into a move.

Our "passing" along the backline is inane. It doesn't achieve anything except maybe wasting time. It doesn't probe, it's too laboured to stretch the opposition. It's utterly predictable. This adds up to it being dire. In fact I don't even think it is passing, we're nervously shuffling the ball in the vague direction of someone in the same colour shirt. There's no artistry. You are completely deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Get Timlin on the ball in midfield, let Corr come short and link up play, get Leonard in midfield surging forward, let's see more of Worrall running into gaps.



Going forward first half against Exeter was good attacking football, but we were open as anything and a half decent team would have punished us for the acres of space. Admittedly we're League Two so there aren't many half decent teams but whilst I'd much rather watch that type of football than the dross we've endured most of this season, I'm not fully convinced that if we play like that we'll make the top 3.



How has he improved us off the pitch - is this the doing up the canteen? I do think the medical side of the club seems to have improved (although we don't appear as fit as last season).

I don't see how he has increased the value of the team.

I have no sympathy if we need to sell a player or two because we are out of the cup before we budgeted. Brown picked weakened teams. I argued against it at the time and pointed out the financial ramifications.

To be fair, I think most sides play weakened sides although I'm not sure that we have a weakened side. We just have different players.
 
I totally disagree. The football was superior under Sturrock. Yes there were too many awful games when the ball didn't stick but if we got the ball down in the opposition half we attacked with purpose, with pace and with incision. Three things decidedly missing from the Brown era. We had a cutting edge and plenty of flair with the likes of Hall and Mohsni in the side.

Sure, it wasn't pretty when the ball didn't stick or even when the ball was initially played long, but at least there was the comfort that if it did stick that there was something then worth watching.

The current football, the first half against Exeter aside, is insipid. Which players in the current side can get you out of your seat?

There's no aesthetic beauty whatsoever in Atkinson, who plays in blinkers, playing a poorly weighted pass backwards to Williams' wrong foot meaning that he has to shuffle it towards Prosser who panics as there is an attacker 10 yards away meaning he has to rush a backpass to Bentley.

There's no superiority of football when Bentley rolls it out to White, who just plays it square in the vague direction of Prosser who has never played an aesthetically appealing pass in his life. Yet it's Prosser who sees most of the ball in our current system.

We played two pieces of good football the entire 90 minutes, one when Timlin played a first time 5 yard angled forward(!) pass and surged forward to pick up the return ball; the other was some Timlin instigated one touch play down the left, although I think Williams failed to put in a decent cross. The rest of it was complete dross which didn't open up the defence of a very poor side.

Back in the Sturrock era if we got the ball down in the opposition half we had Clohessy linking up with Tomlin and the season before that Blair and even Josh Simpson, working little triangles down the right. That's football. Incisive, passes bisecting opposition defenders and getting Clohessy to the bye-line to put in a cross for Corr peeling off his man or Kane Ferdinand making a late unnoticed dart into the area. How often did we get anyone overlapping, getting ahead of the ball Saturday? How often was there that movement to open up defences? Where was the geometry, the opening up of angles? That's passing football and we played far more of it under Sturrock far all the long hoofs we undoubtedly also played.

Who's making the late runs forward like Kane Ferdinand? Who can beat a man like Ryan Hall, like Mohsni and open up space? Who plays the pretty one-twos? Only Timlin changes the angle of the attack or injects any pace into a move.

Our "passing" along the backline is inane. It doesn't achieve anything except maybe wasting time. It doesn't probe, it's too laboured to stretch the opposition. It's utterly predictable. This adds up to it being dire. In fact I don't even think it is passing, we're nervously shuffling the ball in the vague direction of someone in the same colour shirt. There's no artistry. You are completely deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Get Timlin on the ball in midfield, let Corr come short and link up play, get Leonard in midfield surging forward, let's see more of Worrall running into gaps.



Going forward first half against Exeter was good attacking football, but we were open as anything and a half decent team would have punished us for the acres of space. Admittedly we're League Two so there aren't many half decent teams but whilst I'd much rather watch that type of football than the dross we've endured most of this season, I'm not fully convinced that if we play like that we'll make the top 3.



How has he improved us off the pitch - is this the doing up the canteen? I do think the medical side of the club seems to have improved (although we don't appear as fit as last season).

I don't see how he has increased the value of the team.

I have no sympathy if we need to sell a player or two because we are out of the cup before we budgeted. Brown picked weakened teams. I argued against it at the time and pointed out the financial ramifications.

You almost had me. Almost.
 
What I would like to know is why so many see this side as decent?

Am I missing something?

To me on paper this current side has nowhere near the quality Sturrocks side had and he failed.

Where are the match winners, the flair players, the players every other teams supporters hate?

I dont see any in that bracket I am afraid to say. All I see is average. Then again I don't go much anymore so perhaps not in a position to comment.

I would like someone to explain to me though how this side compares favourably to Sturrocks side....
 
What I would like to know is why so many see this side as decent?

Am I missing something?

To me on paper this current side has nowhere near the quality Sturrocks side had and he failed.

Where are the match winners, the flair players, the players every other teams supporters hate?

I dont see any in that bracket I am afraid to say. All I see is average. Then again I don't go much anymore so perhaps not in a position to comment.

I would like someone to explain to me though how this side compares favourably to Sturrocks side....

Interesting post, I generally go with this being a better side as I didn't like the way Sturrocks side played but when breaking it down in his last season Sturrocks team was superior, just. Bentley is better than Smith. The only guy I'd replace from the back 4 of Clohessey Cresswell Phillips Barker is Coker for Barker at LB plus we had awesome cover for Cresswell's injury with Mkandwire on loan. Midfield let Sturrocks side down but could still field Hurst Timlin Laird no depth other than that though Martin, Spicer, Woodyard all below par of all our senior midfielders now IMO. Up front He had Britt and Tomlin plus Corr, Corr who was 3rd choice then is our best option now. I'm sure others will have differing opinions though
 
Sturrock signed an awful lot of dross but on the plus side we did have goals from midfield, Hall and Ferdinand, a free-kick specialist in Hall and we also had centre backs who could score from set pieces, Cresswell and Mohsni. These are areas that need addressing in Brown's reign and are reasons why we cant score enough goals.
 
Totally agree with YB and Smiffy. I just don't get how people can say we play better football under Brown. Its slow and laboured with no real plan of attack, hence the alarming lack of goals. YB has covered most of it, but one other point. The diagonal balls to the wings on Saturday. It was obvious that he had told the full backs and centre backs to use this ball, but it was ineffective. Why? well because our wide players were Atkinson and Worrall. When Sturrock used this plan of attack it was effective, because he played Moshni out wide. It wasnt always pretty but it worked.
 
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