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Mark Molesley

shrimper43

Schoolboy⭐
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
683
Location
Exile
MM may turn out to have been the right bloke at the wrong time and who knows if anyone could have made a better job of a hopeless situation. Paul Sturrock of course when he arrived did do very well in a hopeless situation and was the right bloke at the right time. Later after the heroics of turning a sinking ship round the same issue for fans that followed him through every club he managed came up. The football was pragmatic but absolutely dire to watch.
 
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NZamba Legend

Deep-lying playmaker ⭐
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
4,698
Location
Le Mellotron
MM may turn out to have been the right bloke at the wrong time and who knows if anyone could have made a better job of a hopeless situation. Paul Sturrock of course when he arrived did do very well in a hopeless situation and was the right bloke at the right time. Later after the heroics of turning a sinking ship round the same issue for fans that followed him through every club he managed came up. The football was pragmatic but absolutely dire to watch.
Is PB the wrong bloke at the right time?
 

Tribal Chief

Needle Mover ⭐
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
450
Location
Rocky Mountains
That interview just reinforces my view that we should have stuck with him. What difference did it make sacking the bloke? absolutely **** all as we still ended up in the National League. Those that spent their time rubbishing him all the time with that incredibly original PE teacher jibe should have a good look at themselves, but they won't, they just move on to the next target of choice.
I don't doubt that he's a nice man. But he's a ****ing useless manager. Maybe Dick Bate was a nice man too.
 

RHB

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
23,196
Location
Westcliff riviera
No, go ahead and debate it. I’m genuinely intrigued as to how anybody defends that useless ****er.
Phrases such as 'But he's a ****ing useless manager' and 'that useless ****er' suggests that you have a pretty set view on Molesley. And if that's how you feel then it's basic enough for me not to bother debating, and instead we will disagree. That is allowed on SZ.
 

Tribal Chief

Needle Mover ⭐
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
450
Location
Rocky Mountains
Phrases such as 'But he's a ****ing useless manager' and 'that useless ****er' suggests that you have a pretty set view on Molesley. And if that's how you feel then it's basic enough for me not to bother debating, and instead we will disagree. That is allowed on SZ.
Poor form
 

nick12

Southend till I die
Joined
May 16, 2015
Messages
281
Incredible the rose-coloured glasses looking at Molesley's tenure here - he was ****ing terrible.
And PB done so well 🤔

MM had no money, a transfer embargo and the wonderful prospect of trying to lure players to a club who thank's to our fantastic chairman have faced more winding up orders than the rest of the football league put together.

I am not saying MM was the mesia (he never had a fair chance to prove that) but who the hell could pull that round with the reputation we have thank's to RM?

Good luck to him, obviously hope Alders#!t finish below us but wouldn't bank on it now.
 
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Museshrimper

Life President⭐
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
6,264
Location
Southend
No, go ahead and debate it. I’m genuinely intrigued as to how anybody defends that useless ****er.
No you're not. I tried twice with evidence that results failed to match performances and our substandard strikers got us relegated, you gave no meaningful response, and subsequently ignored the last one. A few days later, back to just typing abuse.
 

RHB

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
23,196
Location
Westcliff riviera
No you're not. I tried twice with evidence that results failed to match performances and our substandard strikers got us relegated, you gave no meaningful response, and subsequently ignored the last one. A few days later, back to just typing abuse.
Which is exactly why I didn't bother engaging.
 

Tribal Chief

Needle Mover ⭐
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
450
Location
Rocky Mountains
No you're not. I tried twice with evidence that results failed to match performances and our substandard strikers got us relegated, you gave no meaningful response, and subsequently ignored the last one. A few days later, back to just typing abuse.
No, I did address your ‘Asian betting syndicates’ opus, and speculated that they were attracted by the ability of MM’s teams to draw 0-0 towards the end of his reign (when they desperately needed to win games after being cast adrift at the bottom of the table). Molesley’s tenure was an unmitigated disaster, and Brown’s struggles don’t change that. As I said, I’m sure he’s a very nice man, but he did nothing positive for my football club and I do hold him (and Ron) responsible for us being relegated. I don’t wish him physical harm or misery but I don’t wish him success in football management, and I’m convinced he won’t find any.
 

mfurok

Manager⭐
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,250
I pinned my colours to the MM mast very early doors and nothing I heard from inside the dressing room or the training ground gave me reason to deviate from that.

Even the ongoing good natured jousting with me ol mate mfurok (1) didn’t convince me he wasn’t capable of doing the job. (2)

He had the hardest of jobs. The club was in disarray returning from covid. Pitches not marked, kit not bought, players devoid of confidence who had been ignored for 4 months, furloughed or not paid at all. He was employed with 3 weeks to the start of the season under an embargo until January and lost 3 attacking players in a month of starting 2 of which were most people’s pick as first choice front 2!!!!

He adapted his own approach to suit the circumstances and the level. He slowly turned round performances and results to the point where not only were the club at one point out of the relegation places but consistently in games and in touch with the places of safety. (3)

His one issue with the side was scoring goals (4)
…if only he’d realised what so many fans could see so easily, that if when you have no good forwards in the club and can’t sign anyone, you just have to play loads of forwards in an attacking formation to score more goals…..and win loads of games 5-4…..

Oh well.

I have no doubt that he will develop into the type of ‘Crowley’ unknown figure plucked from non league that everyone craved…..and then we can all carry on with the ‘we should’ve stuck with him’ mantra that so often comes with ex players and managers…..
(1) Hello again. Hope that you are well.

(2) I guess that if the final outcome (relegation) of his process hasn't convinced you, clearly nothing ever will.

(3) Having changed our fortunes with a different and more attacking style of play from the nonsensical tactics he immediately implemented when he joined and maintained for far too long, he then inexplicably and catastrophically changed them again and went ultra defensive when (almost) everyone could see that we had to win matches, which actually meant we had to score the odd goal.

(4) Remind me of the objective of football. Oh yeah - to score more goals than the opposition. If that were the only issue (which it wasn't by far) it would be the issue that would see every side with that issue relegated and every manager with that issue sacked...........and, quite rightly, he was.

Shame we've already played Shots at home.
 

Chapperz

Striker
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
1,367
I thought he actually went more attacking near the end. In the games against Oldham, Stevenage, Scunthorpe, and Walsall, we created good chances and should have won them all.

Apart from the first game against Harrogate, did he really stick with the "nonsensical tactics"? After the second game, we lost to Morecambe due to a late goal, drew with Crawley and drew with Exeter after they equalized in the last minute.

The issues of last season have been mentioned so many times it has become boring reading and writing them. In my opinion, Mark Molesley is a good manager who came in at a tough time for our club and was unsuccessful. If you base your opinion on a manager on an outcome of one season without considering the context, then Kevin Bond is one of the greatest managers in our history after keeping us in League 1.
 

KiwiRob

First XI
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
1,275
No, I did address your ‘Asian betting syndicates’ opus, and speculated that they were attracted by the ability of MM’s teams to draw 0-0 towards the end of his reign (when they desperately needed to win games after being cast adrift at the bottom of the table). Molesley’s tenure was an unmitigated disaster, and Brown’s struggles don’t change that. As I said, I’m sure he’s a very nice man, but he did nothing positive for my football club and I do hold him (and Ron) responsible for us being relegated. I don’t wish him physical harm or misery but I don’t wish him success in football management, and I’m convinced he won’t find any.
One thing is clear. Few Southend managers - with the possible exception of Sol Campbell - have operated with greater constraints than MM. How the Chairman and the Board did not clear the transfer embargo for the first four months of his managerial reign is beyond belief. In contrast, PB has had no transfer embargo, was allowed to bring in players almost immediately after Southend's relegation, had a full-pre-season to mould his new team, and to date has produced one win.
 

OllieSteph44

Striker
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
993
I guess that if the final outcome (relegation) of his process hasn't convinced you, clearly nothing ever will.
Didn’t Phil Brown get the relegation on his CV not Mark Molesley? I mean that’s how it works isn’t it? Just like Kevin Bond got the credit for keeping the club up and not anything Chris Powell had done for the previous 8 months? 😜😜 🎣

Having changed our fortunes with a different and more attacking style of play from the nonsensical tactics he immediately implemented when he joined and maintained for far too long, he then inexplicably and catastrophically changed them again and went ultra defensive when (almost) everyone could see that we had to win matches, which actually meant we had to score the odd goal.
Yep he identified that his preferred style of play wasn’t going to work and found a way of picking up regular points and winning some games. He was also astute enough to recognise that the squad he had and had been allowed to assemble (not for the want of trying) simply didn’t have enough fire power to risk having to score 3/4 goals to win a game so the only other alternative in that situation to enable you to pick up points is to stop conceding them!

The Xgoal stats, missed chances and missed penalties were evidence that he was actually right to think that would be enough but ultimately the lack of player ability meant too many opportunities were being wasted….he could only pick from who he could pick from….in normal circumstances that would come under the managers remit and his responsibility but surely we’d all accept that recruitment of players is one thing was always very much out of of MMs hands, no tactics and formations were ever going to change the personnel available to score or their ability levels.

Remind me of the objective of football. Oh yeah - to score more goals than the opposition. If that were the only issue (which it wasn't by far) it would be the issue that would see every side with that issue relegated and every manager with that issue sacked...........and, quite rightly, he was.
Of course. But more goals than the opposition can be 1-0….and if you know you don’t have the capability of scoring 3/4 you have to accept it will take a clean sheet to win a game. That’s just pragmatism I very much doubt it was preferred choice.

Bottom line is he was sacked and it’s very hard to argue against it being deserved other than it had no impact on the outcome and we’ll never know if it made a difference or not.

What we do know is we then lost to just about the only other team we had hope of catching with a terrible performance in a derby game that had ongoing hints at problems behind the scenes that probably put the final nails in the coffin.

However I accept I am a bit of an idealist and utopia has no place in football….But I’m a firm believer that had CP not been sacked the outcome would’ve been the same as it was under Bond…I also still believe either way the club would still be in a better place today with CP still in charge rather than any of the following 5 incumbents….but then I also thought Waddock should’ve been given he job ahead of Campbell….

But that’s a whole other debate cos in my world :-

I wouldn’t have sacked CP

I wouldn’t have chosen Bond to replace him.

I would’ve given Waddock the job before Campbell even became an option.

I wouldn’t have sacked MM.

I wouldn’t have gone back to PB.

All old ground though and it’s not changing anything now. But I do wish MM well at Aldershot and I do think he’ll go on to have a pretty healthy career in management around the lower leagues (1/2/Conf)
 

mfurok

Manager⭐
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,250
Didn’t Phil Brown get the relegation on his CV not Mark Molesley? I mean that’s how it works isn’t it? Just like Kevin Bond got the credit for keeping the club up and not anything Chris Powell had done for the previous 8 months? 😜😜 🎣


Yep he identified that his preferred style of play wasn’t going to work and found a way of picking up regular points and winning some games. He was also astute enough to recognise that the squad he had and had been allowed to assemble (not for the want of trying) simply didn’t have enough fire power to risk having to score 3/4 goals to win a game so the only other alternative in that situation to enable you to pick up points is to stop conceding them!

The Xgoal stats, missed chances and missed penalties were evidence that he was actually right to think that would be enough but ultimately the lack of player ability meant too many opportunities were being wasted….he could only pick from who he could pick from….in normal circumstances that would come under the managers remit and his responsibility but surely we’d all accept that recruitment of players is one thing was always very much out of of MMs hands, no tactics and formations were ever going to change the personnel available to score or their ability levels.


Of course. But more goals than the opposition can be 1-0….and if you know you don’t have the capability of scoring 3/4 you have to accept it will take a clean sheet to win a game. That’s just pragmatism I very much doubt it was preferred choice.

Bottom line is he was sacked and it’s very hard to argue against it being deserved other than it had no impact on the outcome and we’ll never know if it made a difference or not.

What we do know is we then lost to just about the only other team we had hope of catching with a terrible performance in a derby game that had ongoing hints at problems behind the scenes that probably put the final nails in the coffin.

However I accept I am a bit of an idealist and utopia has no place in football….But I’m a firm believer that had CP not been sacked the outcome would’ve been the same as it was under Bond…I also still believe either way the club would still be in a better place today with CP still in charge rather than any of the following 5 incumbents….but then I also thought Waddock should’ve been given he job ahead of Campbell….

But that’s a whole other debate cos in my world :-

I wouldn’t have sacked CP

I wouldn’t have chosen Bond to replace him.

I would’ve given Waddock the job before Campbell even became an option.

I wouldn’t have sacked MM.

I wouldn’t have gone back to PB.

All old ground though and it’s not changing anything now. But I do wish MM well at Aldershot and I do think he’ll go on to have a pretty healthy career in management around the lower leagues (1/2/Conf)
Bit late for a full reply but certainly agree with points 2 and 3 of your final summary……and then points 4 and 5 may not have been an issue.

As you pointed out in an earlier thread, as they get older some become wiser.
 

Supernaut

Director
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
2,851
I wouldn’t have sacked MM.

I wouldn’t have gone back to PB.
I would have sacked MM *if* a manager with a proven history of turning struggling teams around quickly was available and interested in coming to us. The fact is, throughout PB's managerial career he's never created that 'new manager bounce' anywhere he's been, and that really should have told RM that he wasn't the right man at that time. Should have stuck with MM.
 
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