Supporters Group News Meeting with Ron 15th

[rigsby]

Its not 24 hrs since the meeting and the usual Ron conspiracies are in full flow..."Ron wont write off the debt".....Ron will charge rent we cant afford"....."The stadium will never happen".

Why would Ron spend 25 years and millions only to ruin his asset?....It would apply to any business, the more successful the team and the stadium, the bigger his payday.

There has been plenty of clubs in the past, Chelsea for one, that were sold for £1. Ken Bates had to pay all the debt as did Ron when he took over in 1998.......Why would Ron make SUFC valueless?....If that was ever in his interest this would be the season to do it. Not sign about 8 or 10 players since December.

Still where would we be without someone to hate on the pitch and someone to hate in the stands..

 

[Suffolk Shrimper In Dorset]

I was 'at' the meeting yesterday. It was well run (by Fitz), and Ron I think came out of it with some credit.

Probably like many others I ebb and flow a bit re my opinion on our chairman and he has made some huge **** ups in the past which have cost us dear, but I do think he is trying to do his best. And, given where we are at now, the approach he is taking now seems justifiable.

He acknowledged some communication issue errors in the past, but in looking to set up a regular video link forum (I wonder how many other clubs do that?) I think that should go some way to addressing past comms probs. Key will be to keep the initiative going - we've had too many (written) 'future regular briefings' promises in the past fall at the second or third hurdle., if this one goes the same way then it will be a huge credibility screw up

No, I didn't learn much new yesterday, but I did see a Chairman making an effort. And I came away from it with a feeling that if only the team can harness what we are told is a good spirit in the camp, backed by us all (putting aside past issues no matter how difficult that might be) giving them more encouragement then we might just stay in League Two and have something to build on for better times ahead.

I'll keep on my rose-tinted SUEPA specs for now

UTB

 

[GDM]

Its not 24 hrs since the meeting and the usual Ron conspiracies are in full flow..."Ron wont write off the debt".....Ron will charge rent we cant afford"....."The stadium will never happen".

Why would Ron spend 25 years and millions only to ruin his asset?....It would apply to any business, the more successful the team and the stadium, the bigger his payday.

There has been plenty of clubs in the past, Chelsea for one, that were sold for £1. Ken Bates had to pay all the debt as did Ron when he took over in 1998.......Why would Ron make SUFC valueless?....If that was ever in his interest this would be the season to do it. Not sign about 8 or 10 players since December.

Still where would we be without someone to hate on the pitch and someone to hate in the stands..

He's currently charging rent we can't afford? According to minutes of this meeting he will continue to charge rent we can't afford? I understand why he's done it thus far, but I never expected this in "our" new stadium...as how can you pay rent on something you own? Answer is you can't, therefore we won't own our own stadium...so we have no assets, we'll continue to have no assets...have I got this wrong?

 

[kentblues]

Its

Not whilst he's the owner it doesn't, but when he sells it does.

like you take a tenner out of your wallet and lend it to yourself. You then put it back in the wallet. When you write the loan off its still there.

 

[kentblues]

He's currently charging rent we can't afford? According to minutes of this meeting he will continue to charge rent we can't afford? I understand why he's done it thus far, but I never expected this in "our" new stadium...as how can you pay rent on something you own? Answer is you can't, therefore we won't own our own stadium...so we have no assets, we'll continue to have no assets...have I got this wrong?

He's charging himself rent that he's paying (or actually owing) to himself... And probably for good business reasons.

Whilst he owns the club it is all completely meaningless. So I guess you're wondering well what if he sold then Club. Well actually this structure makes a lot of sense. If you were to buy the Club and wanting to put a lot of capital in you might want to buy both the club and the stadium (you will need 10s of millions). But actually you might just want to buy the club and then come to an arrangement where you long term lease the stadium (by choice).

Whether the new buyer pays some or all of the outstanding rent on purchase of the club is a negotiation- and Ron can write some of all of it off. In the end the value of the stadium will be a known. The value of any football club is subjective according to who is buying.

Either way Ron owns the club and the company that owns the stadium. It really doesn't matter.

 

[Strykr]

Sad to read that, i thought part of this was to essentially assist the clubs stability by not having to pay rent, and to have income streams.

Just feels like we are gonna lose the hall and not gain anything. I didnt mind so much ron being only in it for the money if the club was gonna be safe.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

If ron does ever build the new stadium then surely it will be in his best interest to sell the club then. I think their would be lot of interested parties who would buy us.

Who would want it, then ? All the profit from the land and property from Roots Hall would probably have vanished, and the buyer could be left with a football club with very little assets that may not even have a place in the EFL ?

 

[Strykr]

Who would want it, then ? All the profit from the land and property from Roots Hall would probably have vanished, and the buyer could be left with a football club with very little assets that may not even have a place in the EFL ?

Exactly.

Get the feeling we are gonna be a lot worse off or as worse after this..

 

[damien]

Don't forget about the dome, never lose sight of the dome. The dome will solve all issues.

 

[londonblue]

Its

like you take a tenner out of your wallet and lend it to yourself. You then put it back in the wallet. When you write the loan off its still there.

Not the same at all.

 

[brigg blue]

I think people are reading too much into the rent thing, Ron isn't going to turn around and say the club will come with a free stadium with no rent liabilities. He's got to sell his assets at some point within the next couple of years and he needs a strong position to negotiate from if someone with deep pockets comes along.

He's essentially keeping his options open, if Bezos comes in to turn us into Amazon FC Ron will quite rightly want his rent money back. If a supporters trust is the option he'll no doubt either carry on the paper rent or hand the stadium over.

I do wonder if his brush with Covid has focused his mind on selling up as soon as planning permission is complete, along with some other form of succession planning

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

Really appreciate the time and effort that you guys (!) have put in, to arrange meetings with RM and for the feedback.

Mind awfully, if I cast my own interpretation on some of the feedback ?

An acceptance that we might go down, however, doing our best not to. He went back to the Phil Brown days and the split in the camp. We’ve never got the culture back from before the split. RM wanted to rid the team of players who were either troublesome or were earning and not delivering. Chris Powell came in, resolved the problem be lost our “captains”, and we’d not recovered through the next two permanent managers. Nice words about Kevin Bond, Sol Campbell not mentioned. Mark Molesley is still learning on the job, but he does have an affordable, together dressing room. It cost a lost of money to move some of those people on. It is difficult to attract people, based on our current position. John Akinde being an example despite being offered a “League One contract”. Calvin Andrew also noted, but not fully fit and he didn’t come despite terms being agreed. Belief is if we stay up, we have something positive to build on. Accepted we have relatively strong defence and midfield, but not so up front.

Personally, i'm not interested. Sounds like a reason to waste valuable questioning time to me.

Not planning for next season until we know where next season is. There won’t be any announcements on Season Tickets, however, we are receiving money on season tickets from the finance team. No one has been in contact re refunds on season tickets. There will be a financial knock on to what can be put into the club if refunds are made. Others are in the same boat.

Didn't think he would be able to answer questions on next season, yet. Obviously there will be a knock on...but have we the funds to make the refunds ? I don't care about other clubs to be honest.

We are in a better period of stability on the pitch, and it has taken a long time to get there. A multitude of things have gone wrong. Transfers was one, particularly with injuries. (nothing we haven’t spoken about before).

That's because we was too slow to appoint a manager, and when we did, MM was faced with a transfer embargo. Many are unfit because they didn't have a proper pre-season or were injury prone, anyway.

Doesn’t want to talk about relegation because doing as much as possible to avoid that.

This shouldn't be dismissed so flippantly. Businesses should always have a contingency plan should the worst case happens.

Stadium IS going to happen, it is enabled by the housing issue. Happy to share information. This will build the future of the club, regardless of what league we are in. A lot within the stadium will benefit long term. There will be a hospitality area for 1000 people, which will be open on match days and be able to used on non-match days. There are some limitations to use, but these can be negotiated. There is competition with the O2 which limits what can be done. Club will benefit from anything like that. Ownership is technically with Ron. If the club was sold, the stadium would be part of that. (LF note, this was all pretty vague, particularly around future potential ownership) There is no developments at Roots Hall until the Club has moved, these are just rumours.

IS going to happen ? Really ! Is the funding in place ? Have we the relevant planning permission ? How can you have hospitality of 1,000 people, when there is no main stand ? How would the stadium be part of the sale, when the club will not own it ? More like the rent for it will be passed on ?

There will be a lease on the new ground, in the same manner as Roots Hall. There has been no rent charged and no rent paid. Nothing will change. Objective is to write off all debts when we move. However, if the team came into a windfall, such as a massive transfer fee, consideration may be given to easing the rent write off

How does he intend to write-off all debts when we move ? Will the football club be benefiting from the sale of land and property on the RH site, then ? even so, Fossetts has to be built first, doesn't it ?

Council have a couple of complementary planning issues, Fossets / Roots Hall and Queensway. Expected to go to Committee date in April, not expecting any catch up in purdah as election dates might slip . (LF note, Council ****le advises otherwise). All financial considerations have been discussed, which people were able to see online. Council support the club surviving and growning, and understand a new stadium is fundamental.

Ok, thanks. But that doesn't sound like the stadium IS definitely going to happen ?

There are issues around communications, where things that are said are dismissed as not true. There is a rumour mill that spreads stories, but in terms of communications it is very difficult during Covid. . (LF note, supporters have offered many times to assist). Despite illness, still in charge of the club.

Fair point, and I wish him a speedy recovery. However, if he was more open with the supporters, it would alleviate a lot of the rumours.

Better Comms with fans is needed, the protest group made that clear. Want to extend the forum on a “Thursday Surgery” basis on a weekly basis. We can use Zoom and Teams, which were tools we weren’t using ahead of lockdown. It allows easier attendance from SUFC staff. It wouldn’t be limited to the Chairman, we could involve everyone. Open to ideas on how to make things better. Aware that some people accuse of being over exposed. (LF note, example was given as no update after the “its just a phone call away” comment about the embargo). This was true, and believed at the time we could enter in to a Time To Pay with HMRC, our problem was that we sat outside what we believed the arrangements were. Essentially, there was a change in rules that we fell foul of. Ultimately, the debt was paid in full in one go and that is when we left the embargo. With hindsight, better communications should have been made to the supporters.

Glad this was acknowledged.

Does want a CEO, and we will have one. Doesn’t want one when we are failing as we want someone to take us forward. Will do my best to get this resolved when we announce building plans. It is a very exciting time for the football club, but I can’t communicate everything as I cannot compromise our partners.

A good CEO would take the club forward from any position. He/she would earn their salary, plus much more.

There are a lot of people on the Board who would be pleased to give their views from the position they hold.

Why don't they then ? Perhaps we should ask for their opinions aswell, then ?

Salary cap abandonment doesn’t really effect Southend United and we supported it. A salary cap makes it very difficult to compete if you move up the leagues. This may make it easier to pick up free agents.

I think that was proven to be illegal in employment law..I could be wrong, though.

There have been some mistakes with some players this year, but we’ve also got some successes. We have a better set of players. There are players coming back from injury and free agents who we may pick up. This would give us a bigger squad, which will be an advantage as we start playing two games a week.

It's looking more positive on that front, but is the damage already done ?

We have a new physio in place and will be announced online this week (LF note, prompted by a fan’s input).

Ok

No inside track on crowds attending, but hoping for end of March. But nothing is agreed and please don’t use this as a given.

Ok

 

[GDM]

He's charging himself rent that he's paying (or actually owing) to himself... And probably for good business reasons.

Whilst he owns the club it is all completely meaningless. So I guess you're wondering well what if he sold then Club. Well actually this structure makes a lot of sense. If you were to buy the Club and wanting to put a lot of capital in you might want to buy both the club and the stadium (you will need 10s of millions). But actually you might just want to buy the club and then come to an arrangement where you long term lease the stadium (by choice).

Whether the new buyer pays some or all of the outstanding rent on purchase of the club is a negotiation- and Ron can write some of all of it off. In the end the value of the stadium will be a known. The value of any football club is subjective according to who is buying.

Either way Ron owns the club and the company that owns the stadium. It really doesn't matter.

Thanks for reply kentblues? However all what you’ve said is from Ron’s point of view. We’ve always been told that for the survival of the club we need to move...however that appears not to be true - for Ron’s survival we need to move. I guess that’s really all that matters?

 

[kentblues]

Thanks for reply kentblues? However all what you’ve said is from Ron’s point of view. We’ve always been told that for the survival of the club we need to move...however that appears not to be true - for Ron’s survival we need to move. I guess that’s really all that matters?

It might be from Ron’s point of view but it is the situation. In terms of purely the clubs finances, even if that can be separated from Ron’s, we “pay” rent now and will “pay” rent at Fossets. But the revenue streams will be different and we don’t know what the rent will be. So it might very well be that the club will have a sustainable footing. We will have to wait and see.

However, what is clear is that the revenue streams at RH can’t and never have (at least in the past few decades) supported the club. Hence it remains true that moving is essential to progress.

 

[the_goat]

Really appreciate the time and effort that you guys (!) have put in, to arrange meetings with RM and for the feedback.

Mind awfully, if I cast my own interpretation on some of the feedback ?

An acceptance that we might go down, however, doing our best not to. He went back to the Phil Brown days and the split in the camp. We’ve never got the culture back from before the split. RM wanted to rid the team of players who were either troublesome or were earning and not delivering. Chris Powell came in, resolved the problem be lost our “captains”, and we’d not recovered through the next two permanent managers. Nice words about Kevin Bond, Sol Campbell not mentioned. Mark Molesley is still learning on the job, but he does have an affordable, together dressing room. It cost a lost of money to move some of those people on. It is difficult to attract people, based on our current position. John Akinde being an example despite being offered a “League One contract”. Calvin Andrew also noted, but not fully fit and he didn’t come despite terms being agreed. Belief is if we stay up, we have something positive to build on. Accepted we have relatively strong defence and midfield, but not so up front.

Personally, i'm not interested. Sounds like a reason to waste valuable questioning time to me.

Not planning for next season until we know where next season is. There won’t be any announcements on Season Tickets, however, we are receiving money on season tickets from the finance team. No one has been in contact re refunds on season tickets. There will be a financial knock on to what can be put into the club if refunds are made. Others are in the same boat.

Didn't think he would be able to answer questions on next season, yet. Obviously there will be a knock on...but have we the funds to make the refunds ? I don't care about other clubs to be honest.

We are in a better period of stability on the pitch, and it has taken a long time to get there. A multitude of things have gone wrong. Transfers was one, particularly with injuries. (nothing we haven’t spoken about before).

That's because we was too slow to appoint a manager, and when we did, MM was faced with a transfer embargo. Many are unfit because they didn't have a proper pre-season or were injury prone, anyway.

Doesn’t want to talk about relegation because doing as much as possible to avoid that.

This shouldn't be dismissed so flippantly. Businesses should always have a contingency plan should the worst case happens.

Stadium IS going to happen, it is enabled by the housing issue. Happy to share information. This will build the future of the club, regardless of what league we are in. A lot within the stadium will benefit long term. There will be a hospitality area for 1000 people, which will be open on match days and be able to used on non-match days. There are some limitations to use, but these can be negotiated. There is competition with the O2 which limits what can be done. Club will benefit from anything like that. Ownership is technically with Ron. If the club was sold, the stadium would be part of that. (LF note, this was all pretty vague, particularly around future potential ownership) There is no developments at Roots Hall until the Club has moved, these are just rumours.

IS going to happen ? Really ! Is the funding in place ? Have we the relevant planning permission ? How can you have hospitality of 1,000 people, when there is no main stand ? How would the stadium be part of the sale, when the club will not own it ? More like the rent for it will be passed on ?

There will be a lease on the new ground, in the same manner as Roots Hall. There has been no rent charged and no rent paid. Nothing will change. Objective is to write off all debts when we move. However, if the team came into a windfall, such as a massive transfer fee, consideration may be given to easing the rent write off

How does he intend to write-off all debts when we move ? Will the football club be benefiting from the sale of land and property on the RH site, then ? even so, Fossetts has to be built first, doesn't it ?

Council have a couple of complementary planning issues, Fossets / Roots Hall and Queensway. Expected to go to Committee date in April, not expecting any catch up in purdah as election dates might slip . (LF note, Council ****le advises otherwise). All financial considerations have been discussed, which people were able to see online. Council support the club surviving and growning, and understand a new stadium is fundamental.

Ok, thanks. But that doesn't sound like the stadium IS definitely going to happen ?

There are issues around communications, where things that are said are dismissed as not true. There is a rumour mill that spreads stories, but in terms of communications it is very difficult during Covid. . (LF note, supporters have offered many times to assist). Despite illness, still in charge of the club.

Fair point, and I wish him a speedy recovery. However, if he was more open with the supporters, it would alleviate a lot of the rumours.

Better Comms with fans is needed, the protest group made that clear. Want to extend the forum on a “Thursday Surgery” basis on a weekly basis. We can use Zoom and Teams, which were tools we weren’t using ahead of lockdown. It allows easier attendance from SUFC staff. It wouldn’t be limited to the Chairman, we could involve everyone. Open to ideas on how to make things better. Aware that some people accuse of being over exposed. (LF note, example was given as no update after the “its just a phone call away” comment about the embargo). This was true, and believed at the time we could enter in to a Time To Pay with HMRC, our problem was that we sat outside what we believed the arrangements were. Essentially, there was a change in rules that we fell foul of. Ultimately, the debt was paid in full in one go and that is when we left the embargo. With hindsight, better communications should have been made to the supporters.

Glad this was acknowledged.

Does want a CEO, and we will have one. Doesn’t want one when we are failing as we want someone to take us forward. Will do my best to get this resolved when we announce building plans. It is a very exciting time for the football club, but I can’t communicate everything as I cannot compromise our partners.

A good CEO would take the club forward from any position. He/she would earn their salary, plus much more.

There are a lot of people on the Board who would be pleased to give their views from the position they hold.

Why don't they then ? Perhaps we should ask for their opinions aswell, then ?

Salary cap abandonment doesn’t really effect Southend United and we supported it. A salary cap makes it very difficult to compete if you move up the leagues. This may make it easier to pick up free agents.

I think that was proven to be illegal in employment law..I could be wrong, though.

There have been some mistakes with some players this year, but we’ve also got some successes. We have a better set of players. There are players coming back from injury and free agents who we may pick up. This would give us a bigger squad, which will be an advantage as we start playing two games a week.

It's looking more positive on that front, but is the damage already done ?

We have a new physio in place and will be announced online this week (LF note, prompted by a fan’s input).

Ok

No inside track on crowds attending, but hoping for end of March. But nothing is agreed and please don’t use this as a given.

Ok

Unbelievable... this is exactly the time that a CEO is needed. To continue to hold off making an appointment is negligent

And who will pay for his or her salary though?

 

[Strykr]

It might be from Ron’s point of view but it is the situation. In terms of purely the clubs finances, even if that can be separated from Ron’s, we “pay” rent now and will “pay” rent at Fossets. But the revenue streams will be different and we don’t know what the rent will be. So it might very well be that the club will have a sustainable footing. We will have to wait and see.

However, what is clear is that the revenue streams at RH can’t and never have (at least in the past few decades) supported the club. Hence it remains true that moving is essential to progress.

Doesnt seem like the revenue streams will change if we move tho? We'll just lose our home and a lot of people will get rich and we'll be riding rons benevolence which im sure wont last once the deal is all done n dusted.

 

[Floval Flyer]

“He went back to the Phil Brown days and the split in the camp. We’ve never got the culture back from before the split. RM wanted to rid the team of players who were either troublesome...”

This is interesting to read. Circa 3 years on and RM is still mentioning it.

With Nile Ranger potentially coming back, does that mean he was not the instigator of the dressing room split? I had always assumed his antics were the main driver.

Big risk to bring Ranger back, despite our desperation to find a decent target man. Obviously RM knows something else, maybe.

Bizarre!

 

[brigg blue]

Doesnt seem like the revenue streams will change if we move tho? We'll just lose our home and a lot of people will get rich and we'll be riding rons benevolence which im sure wont last once the deal is all done n dusted.

We lost our home long before Ron came along, if he was after a quick buck he's gone a very long way round of getting it

 

[Robert Baldwin]

Rent isn’t going to charged just as now. He is just going to build up an inter company liability in the books so that if a massive transfer fee comes in or a big offer to buy the club then there is the opportunity in those circumstances to recover rent not charged. In the end however you wrap it up he owns the club and will own the stadium whether via the club or otherwise. This sort of arrangement is just good business sense even if we just want things gifted in all circumstances.

Q
i look at what happened to Darlington in 2003, new 25,000 all seater stadium, 10 years later stadium sold for £2mil to a rugby club and off into oblivion. I know the owner was a crook but ....

 

[Wise Head]

Awful news on the ownership of the new ground at FF. Worst fears confirmed as Ron indicates that the club will have a long lease with a rent that won’t be paid. Rinse and repeat of RH scenario.
Until Ron sells up and let’s any new owners buy the stadium as well, the club can’t move forward. Ron has been a millstone round this club’s neck for over 20 years. With all the profit Ron is making from FF you would think he would have the decency to set the club up better than this.