Michael Gove gets it wrong again.

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19626663

OK.I'm sure most people would agree that there has been a dumbing down/grade inflation(call it what you will)in the English educational system since GCSE's replaced GCE's and CSE's 25 years ago.However, I'm not at all sure that Michael Gove's new initiative is the solution to the problem.
And I speak as a great admirer of the French education system(both our daughters passed their French "Bacs" with flying colours).

 

[C C Csiders]

Blair Sturrock is studying for a Star Wars GCSE. Will this be renamed a Chewbaccalaureate?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19626663

OK.I'm sure most people would agree that there has been a dumbing down/grade inflation(call it what you will)in the English educational system system since GCSE's replaced GCE's and CSE's 25 years ago.However I'm not at sure syre that Michael Gove's new iniative is the solution to the problem.
And I speak as a great admirer of the French education system(both our daughters passed their French "Bacs" with flying colours).

Standards of English have certainly dropped.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Standards of English have certainly dropped.

Typos now corrected.:winking:

 

[Jam_Man]

Link is broken, doesnt go to the Guardian ?!!?!?! :smile:

 

[MK Shrimper]

I think exams in total are a terrible way to judge a student and every final exam should be shelved for continual assessment throughout the year.

They're an unrealistic scenario which does nothing but test memory. I've passed loads of exams this way, and as soon as I put my pen down I forget pretty much everything I was taught. However my Uni final year assignment (on Artifical Neural Networks) I could bore you all senseless with.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Link is broken, doesnt go to the Guardian ?!!?!?! :smile:

Ha!I only quote exclusives from the Guardian these days.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think exams in total are a terrible way to judge a student and every final exam should be shelved for continual assessment throughout the year.

They're an unrealistic scenario which does nothing but test memory. I've passed loads of exams this way, and as soon as I put my pen down I forget pretty much everything I' was taught. However my Uni final year assignment I could bore you all senseless with.w

Interestingly,continous assessment is used in the French Bac.system, alongside final year exams.

A further key difference with the French Bac. and Gove's proposed English Bacc. is that the French exam is taken at 18.The French equivalent of exams at 16(The Brevé)counts for little within the French educational system(except as a first step towards the Bac.)or with employers.

Another key difference is that in the French system there are different Bac. options, eg a Bac.S(Science)Bac.L(Literature)Bac.E(Economics)and crucially a technical Bac.for less academically gifted students.

Gove is proposing just English,Maths and Science for starters.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Interestingly,continous assessment is used in the French Bac.system, alongside final year exams.

A further key difference with the French Bac. and Gove's proposed English Bacc. is that the French exam is taken at 18.The French equivalent of exams at 16(The Brevé)counts for little within the French educational system(except as a first step towards the Bac.)or with employers.

Another key difference is that in the French system there are different Bac. options, eg a Bac.S(Science)Bac.L(Literature)Bac.E(Economics)and crucially a technical Bac.for less academically gifted students.

Gove is proposing just English,Maths and Science for starters.

I didn't know that continuous assessment was that important in the French Bac. and the person I could consult has just gone out of the door to start her afternoon's teaching. There is the wonderful world of 'repêchage du Bac', where borderline pupils who got more than the average of 8/20 but less than the 10/20 required to pass, attempt a retrappage. In this, they select two of their subjects in which they undergo a fifteen minute oral in each in an attempt to push up their marks and get them over the 10 pass mark. In the teacher's deliberations that follow, I know that a pupil's course work and attitude are taken into account.
I do strongly agree with you about the benefits here of being able to choose Bac. options, perhaps that's something that will be brought into the English version through consultation?..........it certainly should be.
However, Barna, you and I both know that, in England, this is merely tinkering with an education system that is basically flawed. Equality in education doesn't come with a final exam but with a system that is open to all and not one that is divisive and offers a privileged route for those that can afford to pay.

 

[Neil_F]

Equality in education.

Why is equality in education a good thing?

 

[MK Shrimper]

Why is equality in education a good thing?

So kids from both rich and poor backgrounds get the same opportunities in life. How is that such a bad thing?

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Something certainly has to be done mind. The example I can point to is my own work place where several colleagues 20 years younger have more A to C grades than you can shake a stick at but lack basic spelling ability.

Telling people they are great when they are not is counter productive and does no one any favours. Kids from main land europe are eating up what jobs there are in the city of London as they are far more qualified and in many cases speak the language a hell of lot better !

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Why is equality in education a good thing?

that sentence should end in an exclamation mark or a winking smiley surely - as it sits now it looks like a question

 

[Neil_F]

So kids from both rich and poor backgrounds get the same opportunities in life. How is that such a bad thing?

I didn't say it was a bad thing. I just don't understand the British obsession with "sameness". If you want equality of opportunity regardless of background then you have to give every child the same education and ban any extra curricular tuition. That isn't possible. Further to that, is it really sensible for every child in the country to receive the same education? That is what I am asking because I don't think it is.

The logical conclusion of equality of opportunity isn't realistic so I don't understand why so many people obsess about it, not just in the field of education.

 

[Napster]

Equality of education is impossible. Every teacher is different, every pupil is different.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Have to concur, it's not possible. Parenting relies on the input of parents, and there's far to many feckless examples out there.

 

[Firestorm]

Equality of education is impossible. Every teacher is different, every pupil is different.

Thats not Equality in education means though is it, The important issue is that the equality should be in the opportunity . Everyone should have the same opportunity to have the education, then its up to them / their parents etc to decide what they are going to do with that .
If the Child chooses not to work, the parent chooses not to instill the right ethic etc etc then we should not be compromising the education of those who want to be educated.

Equality is an admirable aim, its an old school working class aim, but equally working to get something and somewhere was also old school working class .

Equality works both ways, if the opportunity is equal and the work put in is equal then the outcome will be equality.

 

[Neil_F]

Thats not Equality in education means though is it, The important issue is that the equality should be in the opportunity . Everyone should have the same opportunity to have the education

We have that already don't we? Every child resident in the UK has the right to education (the legal obligation to be educated in fact). Every child has the opportunity hence we have achieved equality of opportunity.

My understanding of the original reference I quoted was that equality of opportunity could only be achieved when every child received the same education. I'm happy to be corrected though.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Have to concur, it's not possible. Parenting relies on the input of parents, and there's far to many feckless examples out there.

Unfortunately fecklessness is not necessarily a block to a young person's education. They can (and do) still strive to do well in many cases where you'd expect them to fail because of the parenting (or lack of). I just feel sorry for a generation of students who have been guinea pigs for whichever Government has been in power's latest education scheme. At least with O-levels and CSEs you knew exactly where you were.

I also agree that an end of studying exam is not necessarily as good an indication of learning as modular work, concentrating on one area at a time seems to me to focus the mind and therefore enhance the capability in retaining that information.

I admit I don't know too much about the Baccalaureate system, but is it really going to be any better?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

When Barna shoots from the hip about equality of education, is he after equality of outcome (ie let's get everyone to a lowest common denominator) or equality of opportunity (ie everyone can enter the 11+)?