Miliband:Too little done to integrate UK society

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20715253

Is Ed. right?
(I can certainly remember the problems trying to integrate the Asian community back in mid/late 70's Britain).
Over to you.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20715253

Is Ed. right?
(I can certainly remember the problems trying to integrate the Asian community back in mid/late 70's Britain).
Over to you.

Actually unblocked you to reply to this as I feel it's an important subject (plus you managed to quote from the BBC as opposed to the Guardian, well done)

It does seem that Ed's trying to cover all bases, but then that's politics. Unfortunately, being a democracy, it's impossible to say anything meaningful without offending some of the community.

Admitting Labour's previous mistakes is good, though it's hard to deny them (and could be seen as a ploy to win some voters back who are concerned re immigration. The piece about minimum levels of English is important, as not only is it harder to integrate if you don't speak the language, but you also raise people's suspicions (I hate holidaying abroad as my language skills are so bad that I feel isolated. I guess it's a true xenophobia, rather than a hatred of foreigners)

For me the key problem is how people live. You get whole communities built up of one ethnic background (and that's for pretty much all types, I'm not singling out Afro-Caribbean or Asian). This is harder to tackle though, as you can hardly tell people to move because they don't fit the ideal local demographic! In reality the only way of solving this is for people to feel comfortable within other ethnic communities, and this requires education and tolerance from both sides. Will it happen? Eventually I'm sure. I've seen changes in my lifetime, but unfortunately not enough.

 

[GrumpyBlue]

Actually unblocked you to reply to this as I feel it's an important subject (plus you managed to quote from the BBC as opposed to the Guardian, well done)

It does seem that Ed's trying to cover all bases, but then that's politics. Unfortunately, being a democracy, it's impossible to say anything meaningful without offending some of the community.

Admitting Labour's previous mistakes is good, though it's hard to deny them (and could be seen as a ploy to win some voters back who are concerned re immigration. The piece about minimum levels of English is important, as not only is it harder to integrate if you don't speak the language, but you also raise people's suspicions (I hate holidaying abroad as my language skills are so bad that I feel isolated. I guess it's a true xenophobia, rather than a hatred of foreigners)

For me the key problem is how people live. You get whole communities built up of one ethnic background (and that's for pretty much all types, I'm not singling out Afro-Caribbean or Asian). This is harder to tackle though, as you can hardly tell people to move because they don't fit the ideal local demographic! In reality the only way of solving this is for people to feel comfortable within other ethnic communities, and this requires education and tolerance from both sides. Will it happen? Eventually I'm sure. I've seen changes in my lifetime, but unfortunately not enough.

Good post don`t suppose BB will agree

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

One thing I will add. New Year's eve last year, and I got an invite via a friend to see it in at a Polish centre in West London.

Throughout the evening we were made to feel really welcome, everybody spoke English in our presence, and by the end of the evening we felt we'd known everybody for years. If all ethnic groups made the effort that these people did with us, then racial intolerance would vanish in a generation!

(Don't ask me any more details, there was a lot of Vodka, and my memory is a tad hazy!) :smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Good post don`t suppose BB will agree

Actually CS can confirm(if he wants to)that I said his post was well balanced.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

Actually CS can confirm(if he wants to)that I said his post was well balanced.

Yep, can confirm this. I was honoured with green tinged grey :smile:

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I am a tad of a leftie and agree with a lot of BB's comments & however, I also agree with a lot of the above. EM's speech is not Enoch Powell's "rivers" type (although that speech in full WAS balanced) and it is late in the day. I have little doubt that english language knowledge will form part of citizen requirement but with EU stuff and the ineffective Immigration & Border control that is almost irrelevant except for perhaps public sector working.....where quotas have to be met!

 

[callan]

He's right in the sense that too little thought has been put it into the intergration of immigrants.....I work with god knows how many African social workers who may have a degree in Social work but have little understanding of UK culture.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

If we really have to accept wholesale immigration, and it appears we must, then surely the very least we should demand is a modicum of respect for our culture and our history? I live as an immigrant in a foreign land and I'm not asking Johnny Yank to celebrate Guy Fawkes Night or get some marmite on the shelves. Although the latter would be good.

 

[OldBlueLady]

If we really have to accept wholesale immigration, and it appears we must, then surely the very least we should demand is a modicum of respect for our culture and our history? I live as an immigrant in a foreign land and I'm not asking Johnny Yank to celebrate Guy Fawkes Night or get some marmite on the shelves. Although the latter would be good.

That's is it though, isn't it? Side stepping the Marmite question (I agree, by the way, ace on toast with anything added - beans, eggs etc) if you wish to live in a country that is different to where you have been brought up, then to me it is pretty basic that you have to respect the customs and traditions of that country WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THEM OR NOT, which is why I find it so difficult to accept those of the more vocal persuasion who can't do so here but are only too happy to accept all that is good that this country has to offer (similar to the former Dale Farm residents).

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That's is it though, isn't it? Side stepping the Marmite question (I agree, by the way, ace on toast with anything added - beans, eggs etc) if you wish to live in a country that is different to where you have been brought up, then to me it is pretty basic that you have to respect the customs and traditions of that country WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THEM OR NOT, which is why I find it so difficult to accept those of the more vocal persuasion who can't do so here but are only too happy to accept all that is good that this country has to offer (similar to the former Dale Farm residents).

"Love it or leave it?"
(ps I hate marmite).:winking:

 

[MK Shrimper]

Islamic butcher near me selling halal turkeys. Make of that what you will.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

Islamic butcher near me selling halal turkeys. Make of that what you will.

Well,considering Christmas these days is about as Christian as a chocolate egg, I don't see why not!

In all seriousness though, whilst I'd not expect Muslims (or any non Christian religion) to celebrate Christmas as a religious festival, there's nothing to stop them enjoying the whole non-religious side of it. In fact by doing so they're pretty much integrating with a major cultural part of British life

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

"Love it or leave it?"
(ps I hate marmite).:winking:

And marmite hates you.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The Marmite effect is, of course,an interesting phenomenon.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...als-host-food-drink-TV-shows-polarise-us.html

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

That's is it though, isn't it? Side stepping the Marmite question (I agree, by the way, ace on toast with anything added - beans, eggs etc) if you wish to live in a country that is different to where you have been brought up, then to me it is pretty basic that you have to respect the customs and traditions of that country WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THEM OR NOT, which is why I find it so difficult to accept those of the more vocal persuasion who can't do so here but are only too happy to accept all that is good that this country has to offer (similar to the former Dale Farm residents).

Many of our countrymen (and women) don't hold that view when in the middle east and want alcohol, or women to be able to drive, wear western clothes (not a lot!) etc so it is an argument I agree with but one which we (as Brits) can not claim the moral high ground with. The world is getting a smaller place and more diverse/mixed so change will happen; at the present, in parts of the UK it is too much too fast.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

Many of our countrymen (and women) don't hold that view when in the middle east and want alcohol, or women to be able to drive, wear western clothes (not a lot!) etc so it is an argument I agree with but one which we (as Brits) can not claim the moral high ground with. The world is getting a smaller place and more diverse/mixed so change will happen; at the present, in parts of the UK it is too much too fast.

Agreed, we're often pretty bad with Johnny foreigner. I've never been to Spain, so stand to be corrected,but I understand large parts have been pretty much Anglicised. I've always felt it's a case of "if you're going to live in a different country,why make it just like the one you're trying to leave?"

Having said that, the host country often benefits from being influenced by cultural imports, whether fashions, food, music, or whatever. Let's be honest, how much more exciting has "British" cuisine become since the 70s?

Oh, and Mods. You may wish to check Barna's account, I think someone's hacked it. I could've sworn I saw a link to the Daily Mail posted in his name!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Agreed, we're often pretty bad with Johnny foreigner. I've never been to Spain, so stand to be corrected,but I understand large parts have been pretty much Anglicised.

I would say that this really only applies to three parts of Spain.The area around Benidorm, parts of Mallorca and also parts of the province of Alicante.

Oh, and Mods. You may wish to check Barna's account, I think someone's hacked it. I could've sworn I saw a link to the Daily Mail posted in his name!

Ha!Any source to prove a point.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Ha!Any source to prove a point.

While it's a distinctly :off topic: one, I think you'll find that you probably meant "any SAUCE to prove a point" looking at the link! :winking:

 

[leeblue]

personally I think too much effort goes into 'intergration' People are different, get over it, I quite like the fact that we have so many different cultures/religions/races knocking around makes life interesting. I have no desire to get involved in the local muslim community so why is it an issue if they dont want too much involvement in my goings on. As long as we all abide by the law of the land then whats the big deal.