• Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.

    Existing Users:.
    Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.

    New Users:
    Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.

    Fans from other clubs
    We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.

    Assistance Required
    For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.

Miliband's 10p tax rate proposals

Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
31,386
Location
Sant Cugat del Vallès
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21453444

This is an interesting one.
Presumably Ed. was anticipating it might figure in Boy George's March budget.
In any case it makes quite a nice Valentine's day gift to the voters of Eastleigh, rather undercuts the Lib/Dem's own mansion tax proposals and divorces Labour from Gordon Brown's "mistake."
Only trouble is it won't actually raise a lot of revenue.
Over to you.
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
48,093
Location
Benfleet
Miliband is trying to appeal to Tory voters by blaming Gordon Brown. I think that's pretty poor coming from his successor to being leader of the Labour party.
 

Crabby Shrimper

President
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
3,747
Location
Newport
I'd say he's got one eye on the next election, and believes there's a good chance he'll not get a majority. I think he's just paving the way for a coalition with the Liberals
 

Neil_F

Coach
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
848
Location
Islington
Here's a prediction - it won't be in the Labour Manifesto for 2015.

Superficially it looks attractive, but the detail is a different story.

Introducing the starting rate of 10% for £1,000 of income above the personal allowance (which is what he suggested) would cost about £7bn per the IFS. That can be reduced to about £3bn if restricted to only basic rate taxpayers (again something he said yesterday). The problem with this is it drags more people into the 40% bracket.

The mansion tax would raise £2 bn (Policy Exchange) but it has one monumental problem - every house in the country would need to be revalued. That would mean moving hundreds of thousands of houses up the council tax brackets such that they paid more. The most likely to move would be those earning around 40-50k i.e. those who will be moved into the 40% bracket.

Further to that, the 10% rate will save £100 per year. Except it doesn't. When tax credit withdrawl from higher net income is factored it it actually gives an individual higher income of £34 per year, which is 67p per week.

So it would mean hitting middle income families (the squeezed middle????) to deliver a negligible benefit to the lowest paid. I also suspect that a mansion tax wouldn't raise that much either. It would cost a fortune to administer and would depress property prices around the threshold. Good luck enforcing a charge on an owner tax resident in another country as well.

This is the problem with the tax and benefit system now; it has become so complicated that it is virtually impossible to change it without hitting some people hard for an ever diminishing benefit to another group.
 

superblue24

Director
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
3,479
Location
Ipswich
The funny thing for me was more how utterly out of his depth Millibund looks when delivering speeches. I don't think you could rouse a **** with Ol' Ed's charisma
 

Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
31,386
Location
Sant Cugat del Vallès
Miliband is trying to appeal to Tory voters by blaming Gordon Brown. I think that's pretty poor coming from his successor to being leader of the Labour party.

Interestingly,both Eds.were of course in the Treasury at the time GB made his decision.They advised him against going ahead but collective responsibility and all that.:whistling:
 

Davros

The Whippet
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
8,387
Thye could of course do this all without creating any hoo-ha, by playing some jimmery pokery with the tax codes, but that just wouldn't be politics eh!
 

Tangled up in Blue

Certified Senior Citizen⭐
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
31,386
Location
Sant Cugat del Vallès
Did they? Do you have a source for that?

I can perfectly believe that post hoc they claimed to have advised him against it but I'd be surprised.

It was mentioned in the biography I read on EM recently.Andrew Neil also made the same point yesterday in his Daily Politics show after interviewing Ed Balls live.
 

Neil_F

Coach
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
848
Location
Islington
To answer my own question, this is from Anthony Seldon's biography of Brown:
“[Spencer] Livermore, a senior political adviser, was fiercely opposed, as Balls later claimed himself to be. Balls’s claim is strongly contested by those present at the time...a meeting between Brown and Balls resulted in the latter switching his position and becoming an advocate of abolishing the 10p rate; in return he received a “rock-solid” commitment that he would be given a department of his own.”

Pretty shameless and entirely in character for Mr Balls if true.

I've also just discovered that Labour have already pledged to levy a mansion tax and spend the £2bn proceeds on reversing the 1% uplifting of tax credits.

They appear to be spending the same notional money twice.
 

dloman

Manager
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
1,371
The mansion tax is a funny one to me, it strikes me as a tax on the South East of the country.(I am only guessing, but surely this where the majority of the 2m+ house would be)
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
48,093
Location
Benfleet
The mansion tax is a funny one to me, it strikes me as a tax on the South East of the country.(I am only guessing, but surely this where the majority of the 2m+ house would be)

There's an awful lot in Cheshire and N Yorkshire as well! But I take your point.
 

Mad Cyril

Proud sponsor of Mark Molesley's white trainers⭐
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
18,424
Location
Flavour country
I can't believe the government have taken my child benefits away.

The look on their faces on steak night (turkey mince night for them now) is heartbreaking.
 

South Bank Hank

👍⭐
Joined
Nov 4, 2003
Messages
14,782
Location
Rayleigh
£2million Mansion Tax, nice figure that. Red Ed misses paying that by £100,000. Lucky old him eh.

Interesting indeed, but I'm really struggling with the mansion tax idea anyway.

In what way can it be justified that someone who has legitimately earned money, paid tax on that money at what's likely to be the highest rate of tax, then paid a large amount of additional tax on the purchase of property through excessively high stamp duty and gained a liability for a huge further tax burden should they then pass the asset on to their family on their passing, should then have to retrospectively pay further tax on their previously taxed purchase?

Am I missing the point here?
 

Mad Cyril

Proud sponsor of Mark Molesley's white trainers⭐
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
18,424
Location
Flavour country
Interesting indeed, but I'm really struggling with the mansion tax idea anyway.

In what way can it be justified that someone who has legitimately earned money, paid tax on that money at what's likely to be the highest rate of tax, then paid a large amount of additional tax on the purchase of property through excessively high stamp duty and gained a liability for a huge further tax burden should they then pass the asset on to their family on their passing, should then have to retrospectively pay further tax on their previously taxed purchase?

Am I missing the point here?

Who said they paid tax on it?
 

South Bank Hank

👍⭐
Joined
Nov 4, 2003
Messages
14,782
Location
Rayleigh
Who said they paid tax on it?

Oh yes, I forgot. Anyone with a bit of money or something to show for it MUST have been fiddling...

Who says they didn't pay tax on it?

IF they didn't pay the due amount of tax, you chase any of THAT tax owed or you shut down any loopholes. Introducing a new tax burden on previously taxed income and property, just in case, doesn't cut it.
 
Top