Molesley In or out. (Poll added)

[blues exile]

1. No, we dropped that before Colchester. Do you think a spine of Hobson-Rich Taylor, Gard-Hutch, Goodship-Kelman is good enough if we didn't play tippy tappy?

2. Embargo stopped us from bringing in more players, as we had to operate on a one-in one-out basis. If you don't think that hampers recruitment I don't know what to say.

3. Terminology used by some pretty successful clubs too, though I take your point.

Next:

1. We tried, not sure how hard. We had players reject us, so its not as if they management didn't know. We are perhaps the most unattractive team to join in the FL, that's not a result of this current management team, it comes from not paying players, being on a downward spiral and being bottom of L2.

2. Many of the youngsters have still played a part. Egbri has played more this season than last, as has Richard Taylor, Matt Rush a similar level. Gard injured early on. Its really only MMN, Kinali and Phillips, the former two unfortunately deregistered to bring in better players.

3. He also made substitutions against Grimsby (h) that won us the game, Sterling and Acquah off at HT, Halford comes on late and scores.

4. No way to know the team selection process without inside knowledge of training and attitudes.

1) Hutchinson and Kelman were soon gone so not really in the equation. Lennon was of course a fixture early season before his injury but it was more about style than personnel.
2) Post embargo we have seen the 'fruits' of Molesley's recruitment policy, which seems based on quantity not quality and nothing to suggest he would have recruited more selectively if there had been no embargo. The fact that Ranger was given a chance and Andrew not is very instructive.
3) Other clubs have more credibility when using such terms because they have something to show for it.
Next:
1) Getting players to join us is a hard sell, no question, but we failed.
2) Molesley's signings are arguably no better than some of the kids. We shall never know if they would have done better but Sterling was hardly a success, Kyle Taylor has never looked as good as he did on his debut, similarly Hackett-Fairchild and as for Nathaniel-George even less end product than Egbri. McCormack now a parody of his former self, Holmes a desperation move. Akinola good at National League level, so one for the future. Hart the perfect example of 'never go back'.
3) Yes, one substitution that came off thanks to goalkeeper's howler.
4) Close your eyes and stick in a pin seems most likely.

 

[Jay_SUFC]

1. No, we dropped that before Colchester. Do you think a spine of Hobson-Rich Taylor, Gard-Hutch, Goodship-Kelman is good enough if we didn't play tippy tappy?

They were never the spine of the side (it was one game); this has been mentioned many times before. Go and take a look at the team we put out in those first 15 games. Those players should have been good enough to pick up more than 0 wins in this God awful League.

The mistake MM made was bringing in Sterling (as he was obsessed with tippy tappy football and obviously felt Sterling would complement that) rather than a forward who could actually hold a ball up.

 

[NZamba Legend]

Bottom line is it will always be remembered as the season we didnt buy a proper striker.

Yes. MM has demonstrated that he can organise a team and set up to compete and not give away soft goals. But obviously that has its limits when you can't score at the other end. It's not a case of passion, of playing all the attacking players, it's that we haven't got a recognised striker at the club apart from Emile who is at the very early stages of his career and Rush who is at an even earlier stage. You just can't get away with that.

 

[Rayleigh boy]

I know it would buck trend but surely being a club that backs a manager who gets them relegated would be something to like? To respect?

or laugh at ?

 

[Rayleigh boy]

As for steadying the ship, isn’t that exactly what Molesley has done?

yep - we have stabilised at 91st

hoping against against hope to float up to 90th

 

[CaptainSmudger]

I am in the Keep MM and his team Camp. We need stability. There is not a Manager out there who could do a decent job with the restriction of Working under Ron’s **** up terms and conditions.
Getting in Decent players was always going to be impossible given where we were in the Season. Since the lifting of embargo and getting in the Players we have, has not been a disaster. We would be about 15th in the league, not brilliant I know but not Relegation form. MM did not get a preseason or a decent team to start with. Yes he is learning the ropes in this league, but for me the bloke is OK and will get it right. Akinde did not want to come here, Ranger was always a gamble. I am still praying we can get out of this. We will probably go down, it is not MM’s fault it is Ron’s.
UTB COYB . I cannot Support any other team even if it is in the National League.

 

[MisterStubbs]

I am in the Keep MM and his team Camp. We need stability. There is not a Manager out there who could do a decent job with the restriction of Working under Ron’s **** up terms and conditions.
Getting in Decent players was always going to be impossible given where we were in the Season. Since the lifting of embargo and getting in the Players we have, has not been a disaster. We would be about 15th in the league, not brilliant I know but not Relegation form. MM did not get a preseason or a decent team to start with. Yes he is learning the ropes in this league, but for me the bloke is OK and will get it right. Akinde did not want to come here, Ranger was always a gamble. I am still praying we can get out of this. We will probably go down, it is not MM’s fault it is Ron’s.
UTB COYB . I cannot Support any other team even if it is in the National League.

As I’ve said previously, I’m in agreement that the club needs stability. Both on and off the pitch and I’m sure everybody on here would be in agreement but I’m also in the belief that that stability has to be with the right man, whom I don’t believe MM is.

 

[damien]

Ultimately you can go round in circles for weeks discussing this cant you. If we we had started playing how we have since the embargo we would be looking over our shoulders from the dizzy heights of 18th or 19th thinking cor what a crap season but hey we are 2 or 3 points away from securing safety.

It just plain and simply isn't as easy as saying that, it isn't as easy as saying MM And his team are pony because at long last we aren't whipping boys and don't get smashed every week.

Ron's mismanagement of the club left us with a reputation in tatters and previous going back longer than a decade of not paying players and staff on time.

Would a better connected and more Brownesque manager managed to pull off a move and swindle someone in to the number 9 role to be the difference?

At the end of the day we are we are because of one man only RM. in my opinion as he said on day one MM has opened up the wounds, done some digging, stopped what has been a painful run of heavy defeats sprinkled with the odd draw and result into a consistently competitive football team unlucky not to have had at least another 8 or 9 points on the board at this stage of the season despite giving the division a 3 month headstart.

Ron's statement to confirm MM will be here come game end of the season is as close as you will get to a confirmation of his own guilt in the **** show of a season we have had and MM deserves a chance, unshackled to start us off in the national league. Full pre season, no limitations on who to register, who to deregister, no star players leaving a week before the season.

If he has us playing toilet and we looking unlikely to be anywhere near the top end after 15 games or so then let's look elsewhere at who is free but for me, he stays and has a proper crack next year.

 

[blues exile]

I am in the Keep MM and his team Camp. We need stability. There is not a Manager out there who could do a decent job with the restriction of Working under Ron’s **** up terms and conditions.
Getting in Decent players was always going to be impossible given where we were in the Season. Since the lifting of embargo and getting in the Players we have, has not been a disaster. We would be about 15th in the league, not brilliant I know but not Relegation form. MM did not get a preseason or a decent team to start with. Yes he is learning the ropes in this league, but for me the bloke is OK and will get it right. Akinde did not want to come here, Ranger was always a gamble. I am still praying we can get out of this. We will probably go down, it is not MM’s fault it is Ron’s.
UTB COYB . I cannot Support any other team even if it is in the National League.

Fact. One win in the last ten games is relegation form. If you split the 40 league games into four sequences of 10, the only one of those sequences where we achieved a decent run of form was the ten games towards the end of 2020 where we won 4, drew 2 and lost four, just about mid table form. Other than that it has been dismal - no process, no progress, no excuses.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

Ultimately you can go round in circles for weeks discussing this cant you. If we we had started playing how we have since the embargo we would be looking over our shoulders from the dizzy heights of 18th or 19th thinking cor what a crap season but hey we are 2 or 3 points away from securing safety.

It just plain and simply isn't as easy as saying that, it isn't as easy as saying MM And his team are pony because at long last we aren't whipping boys and don't get smashed every week.

Ron's mismanagement of the club left us with a reputation in tatters and previous going back longer than a decade of not paying players and staff on time.

Would a better connected and more Brownesque manager managed to pull off a move and swindle someone in to the number 9 role to be the difference?

At the end of the day we are we are because of one man only RM. in my opinion as he said on day one MM has opened up the wounds, done some digging, stopped what has been a painful run of heavy defeats sprinkled with the odd draw and result into a consistently competitive football team unlucky not to have had at least another 8 or 9 points on the board at this stage of the season despite giving the division a 3 month headstart.

Ron's statement to confirm MM will be here come game end of the season is as close as you will get to a confirmation of his own guilt in the **** show of a season we have had and MM deserves a chance, unshackled to start us off in the national league. Full pre season, no limitations on who to register, who to deregister, no star players leaving a week before the season.

If he has us playing toilet and we looking unlikely to be anywhere near the top end after 15 games or so then let's look elsewhere at who is free but for me, he stays and has a proper crack next year.

Well said. This is how I also see it, written a lot better than I ever could!

 

[LBBlue]

I’m in the its a myth that we have improved over the season.

I posted this (in italics) on another thread yesterday:


Alternatively, I would have liked to have taken 23 games - after we should have played everyone once, however that did not occur until the 27th game in February at Newport because of the postponement, instead of 9th January if there had been no postponements

Looking at it that way means we took 22 points from the first round of 23 games against everyone else. So far we have taken 14 points from 17 reverse fixtures with 6 to play, which means we must take 8 more points just to match the points from the first round of fixtures.

Either way I don’t see that as a tangible improvement in the second half of the season.

You could also argue that his better signings - Olayinka and K Taylor occurred before the embargo was lifted. The main problem was the injury to John White and the lack of an experienced centre back as cover because Richard Taylor and Harry Lennon weren’t up to it. John White started 6 of our wins and Dieng was in his place for the other 2.

Added to that straight after the embargo was lifted we won our only 4 home games against Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Col U and Barrow added to our away win at Walsall. That’s 4 wins against the other 4 sides in the bottom 5.

To strengthen the side once the embargo was lifted Molesley signed: Louis Walsh (?), Greg Halford, Nathan Ferguson, Reeco Hackett-Fairchild, Nile Ranger, Ricky Holmes, Jacob Mellis and Tyler Cordner.

Molesley’s trouble has been that he is far too inexperienced - a trainee asked to run the show without an experienced mentor overseeing or advising him - only his, similarly inexperienced at league level, assistants. Bonner at Cambridge brought in Gary Waddock.

His judgements on players capablilities has been bizarre - Walsh, Klass, Mellis, Richard Taylor. The only mitigating factor has been our continuing bad luck with injuries - however the one big thing that Ron wanted from his new management team and made a big noise about it was a regime that kept players fit and this clearly hasn’t happened. Maybe we need physically stronger players.

If we get relegated I can’t really see how Molesley can continue.

 

[TrueBlue]

We all know RM shoulders most of the blame on this, however motivating the players we have, giving them instructions on the pitch, selecting the line up and picking the formation is down to the manager and for me a few times this season the manager has been at fault.

 

[Medway Blue]

Ron's statement to confirm MM will be here come game end of the season is as close as you will get to a confirmation of his own guilt in the **** show of a season we have had

I thought this too. Now I'm wondering whether it's because he's passing the buck to the next Chairman/owner. No matter what Ron says, I am starting to think that he will be actively looking to offload the club as soon as planning permission is granted/building work begins. This, for me, fits in with his recent attitude. Not the attitude of a Chairman who necessarily wants to run the club into the ground for his own gain, but instead one of a Chairman who is now in over his head. One who has become so desperate to push through his 2 developments that he has taken his eye off the ball with the football side of the club, and who has such a big ego and is so delusional about his own performance as Chairman that he was straight-up in denial about the shocking state of affairs until it became too late for him to arrest the slide himself. I suspect he probably knows that MM's time is up but will leave it for the next mug to pull the trigger and pay out the compensation. He's sacked managers for less in the past, and whether he thought MM was a long-term appointment or not, I can't believe he wouldn't have sacked him if this were 12-18 months ago.

 

[ColinMorrisWalksOnWater]

I know one thing.....Last night I was very envious of the news that came out of Ipswich!! and the interview with their new chairman, which seemed very plausible. I will be comparing their off the pitch progress to ours and no doubt be adding them to the names such as Brighton and Swansea, who leave us trailing in their wake at the speed their talked about plans become reality, whilst our plans remain just a pipedream of the Buffonted Buffoon.

 

[Medway Blue]

I know one thing.....Last night I was very envious of the news that came out of Ipswich!! and the interview with their new chairman, which seemed very plausible. I will be comparing their off the pitch progress to ours and no doubt be adding them to the names such as Brighton and Swansea, who leave us trailing in their wake at the speed their talked about plans become reality, whilst our plans remain just a pipedream of the Buffonted Buffoon.

I dream about the wave of optimism that will flood this club and its support when a change of ownership is announced.

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

Are you happy with that and if so why?

Ask RM, as he want stability whatever’s division we are in.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

I’m in the its a myth that we have improved over the season.

I posted this (in italics) on another thread yesterday:


Alternatively, I would have liked to have taken 23 games - after we should have played everyone once, however that did not occur until the 27th game in February at Newport because of the postponement, instead of 9th January if there had been no postponements

Looking at it that way means we took 22 points from the first round of 23 games against everyone else. So far we have taken 14 points from 17 reverse fixtures with 6 to play, which means we must take 8 more points just to match the points from the first round of fixtures.

Either way I don’t see that as a tangible improvement in the second half of the season.

You could also argue that his better signings - Olayinka and K Taylor occurred before the embargo was lifted. The main problem was the injury to John White and the lack of an experienced centre back as cover because Richard Taylor and Harry Lennon weren’t up to it. John White started 6 of our wins and Dieng was in his place for the other 2.

Added to that straight after the embargo was lifted we won our only 4 home games against Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Col U and Barrow added to our away win at Walsall. That’s 4 wins against the other 4 sides in the bottom 5.

To strengthen the side once the embargo was lifted Molesley signed: Louis Walsh (?), Greg Halford, Nathan Ferguson, Reeco Hackett-Fairchild, Nile Ranger, Ricky Holmes, Jacob Mellis and Tyler Cordner.

Molesley’s trouble has been that he is far too inexperienced - a trainee asked to run the show without an experienced mentor overseeing or advising him - only his, similarly inexperienced at league level, assistants. Bonner at Cambridge brought in Gary Waddock.

His judgements on players capablilities has been bizarre - Walsh, Klass, Mellis, Richard Taylor. The only mitigating factor has been our continuing bad luck with injuries - however the one big thing that Ron wanted from his new management team and made a big noise about it was a regime that kept players fit and this clearly hasn’t happened. Maybe we need physically stronger players.

If we get relegated I can’t really see how Molesley can continue.

The trouble with using a full round of fixtures against another is the relative strength of those fixtures. In the first set of 23 fixtures we played (and defeated) Grimsby (24th), Colchester (22nd), Barrow (21st) and Scunthorpe (18th) at home which, when you've only won 8 matches all season, massively weights the first round against the second round, regardless of outside circumstances.

So, whilst I think someone can make an argument for the lifting of the embargo potentially not being as important in the way the season has progressed because the run of home fixtures we had after it meant that it was more likely that we'd win at least some of those games anyway, it completely disregards the abysmal form that we had shown not just over the previous 15 matches in this season in the league (plus the PJT humiliation at Colchester and the FA Cup defeat to non-league Boreham Wood) but also the form of the previous two seasons back to January 2019.

Our first 10 league defeats this season took 13 matches this season; the next 10 league defeats took 26 matches. It's obvious that there has been an improvement, because we simply aren't losing as regularly as we did early in this season, or across the previous two seasons. What we haven't developed (as I think @kentblues mentioned in another thread), or at least sustained, is a winning mentality.

Since the lifting of the embargo, we've suffered consecutive league defeats just once (a run of four matches in January). Prior to that, we'd had runs of 3, 6 and 2 consecutive league defeats this season; 6, 5, 3 and 6 last season and 4 and 2 at the end of the previous season, which is obviously going to have a massive affect on the squad mentality. We are more resilient now; we can bounce back from a defeat, even if it's only in the form of a draw on a number of occasions.

I have no idea what the conversations were when Mark Molesley belatedly arrived at the club before the start of the season. The 'entourage' he brought with him (which isn't actually tangibly any larger than any other EFL club) were all inexperienced, and this is where I would agree with the point that an experienced head alongside him might've worked better (we might've dropped the passing out from the back sooner, for instance). We don't know if that was an option open to Molesley, although we do believe Craig Fagan had Colin Calderwood potentially lined up if he had got the job, which would've fitted the bill in that regard.

In terms of the players he signed post-embargo, RHF was a replacement for the injured Egbri, who had played virtually every game up to then, and Cordner came in as useful extra cover at centre-back and to enable us to play three centre-backs which, whilst it may not have worked, may have been a plan borne out of a lack of central midfield options, necessitating a change in formation/tactics.

Ranger and Holmes were options we turned to when we couldn't bring anyone else in; is that due to a lack of extensive contacts in the game for MM (it's possible) or is it just because we were virtually bottom of the table, have a rubbish reputation for paying wages and needed some extra bodies in the squad?

Mellis was injured and was thrust upon us when the main target, Akinde, didn't come off. It's all very well pretending to play Football Manager and think of all the players that might've come here in an ideal world, but realistically we're not an attractive proposition at the moment (strangely, if we were relegated, we might be able to attract better players as a potential big fish at that level, despite the number of ex-league clubs in the National League).

We've given ourselves a chance of staying up, and a realistic one at that (although massively dependent on the result at Colchester). When we had 2 points from the first 11 games, or 6 points from the first 15, that was all we wanted, because a number of people were ready to throw the towel in then. It's not been pretty at times, it's not going to be easy now. But it's a chance, and that's because Molesley is getting something out of this squad. Although we really could do with a home win on Saturday!

 

[damien]

I thought this too. Now I'm wondering whether it's because he's passing the buck to the next Chairman/owner. No matter what Ron says, I am starting to think that he will be actively looking to offload the club as soon as planning permission is granted/building work begins. This, for me, fits in with his recent attitude. Not the attitude of a Chairman who necessarily wants to run the club into the ground for his own gain, but instead one of a Chairman who is now in over his head. One who has become so desperate to push through his 2 developments that he has taken his eye off the ball with the football side of the club, and who has such a big ego and is so delusional about his own performance as Chairman that he was straight-up in denial about the shocking state of affairs until it became too late for him to arrest the slide himself. I suspect he probably knows that MM's time is up but will leave it for the next mug to pull the trigger and pay out the compensation. He's sacked managers for less in the past, and whether he thought MM was a long-term appointment or not, I can't believe he wouldn't have sacked him if this were 12-18 months ago.

I whole heartedly believe he is planning to do so as well. From a snippet of news I got not long ago from an old friend it sounds like the spades will soon be in the ground on site and Ron can finally start lining up the Saudi billionaires and Hollywood stars!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The trouble with using a full round of fixtures against another is the relative strength of those fixtures. In the first set of 23 fixtures we played (and defeated) Grimsby (24th), Colchester (22nd), Barrow (21st) and Scunthorpe (18th) at home which, when you've only won 8 matches all season, massively weights the first round against the second round, regardless of outside circumstances.

So, whilst I think someone can make an argument for the lifting of the embargo potentially not being as important in the way the season has progressed because the run of home fixtures we had after it meant that it was more likely that we'd win at least some of those games anyway, it completely disregards the abysmal form that we had shown not just over the previous 15 matches in this season in the league (plus the PJT humiliation at Colchester and the FA Cup defeat to non-league Boreham Wood) but also the form of the previous two seasons back to January 2019.

Our first 10 league defeats this season took 13 matches this season; the next 10 league defeats took 26 matches. It's obvious that there has been an improvement, because we simply aren't losing as regularly as we did early in this season, or across the previous two seasons. What we haven't developed (as I think @kentblues mentioned in another thread), or at least sustained, is a winning mentality.

Since the lifting of the embargo, we've suffered consecutive league defeats just once (a run of four matches in January). Prior to that, we'd had runs of 3, 6 and 2 consecutive league defeats this season; 6, 5, 3 and 6 last season and 4 and 2 at the end of the previous season, which is obviously going to have a massive affect on the squad mentality. We are more resilient now; we can bounce back from a defeat, even if it's only in the form of a draw on a number of occasions.

I have no idea what the conversations were when Mark Molesley belatedly arrived at the club before the start of the season. The 'entourage' he brought with him (which isn't actually tangibly any larger than any other EFL club) were all inexperienced, and this is where I would agree with the point that an experienced head alongside him might've worked better (we might've dropped the passing out from the back sooner, for instance). We don't know if that was an option open to Molesley, although we do believe Craig Fagan had Colin Calderwood potentially lined up if he had got the job, which would've fitted the bill in that regard.

In terms of the players he signed post-embargo, RHF was a replacement for the injured Egbri, who had played virtually every game up to then, and Cordner came in as useful extra cover at centre-back and to enable us to play three centre-backs which, whilst it may not have worked, may have been a plan borne out of a lack of central midfield options, necessitating a change in formation/tactics.

Ranger and Holmes were options we turned to when we couldn't bring anyone else in; is that due to a lack of extensive contacts in the game for MM (it's possible) or is it just because we were virtually bottom of the table, have a rubbish reputation for paying wages and needed some extra bodies in the squad?

Mellis was injured and was thrust upon us when the main target, Akinde, didn't come off. It's all very well pretending to play Football Manager and think of all the players that might've come here in an ideal world, but realistically we're not an attractive proposition at the moment (strangely, if we were relegated, we might be able to attract better players as a potential big fish at that level, despite the number of ex-league clubs in the National League).

We've given ourselves a chance of staying up, and a realistic one at that (although massively dependent on the result at Colchester). When we had 2 points from the first 11 games, or 6 points from the first 15, that was all we wanted, because a number of people were ready to throw the towel in then. It's not been pretty at times, it's not going to be easy now. But it's a chance, and that's because Molesley is getting something out of this squad. Although we really could do with a home win on Saturday!

I'd like a glass of whatever it is you're drinking.

 

[gatecrasher]

I’m happy with MM staying , until the let’s get another manager in brigade can answer some points
1. Do we have the finances to release MM and his back room staff
2. How long would you give the new manager to satisfy your views, 3,6,9 months ?
3. Who do you think can turn around the club and apart from they have passion who would fit this role
4. Do we want a journeyman manager who moves from club to club with limited success
5. If/when new manager comes in does he stay with this squad or start another clear out
Personally feel MM should be given three months next season and see how it goes

UTS

1. No, but that's never stopped Ronnie before
2. I just want one to steady the ship and not cause a 3rd relegation in a row
3. Someone who has experience of the national league and league 2 and has got a promotion or two on his books.
4. Luggy and and Phil Brown didn't do bad for two journey men managers, it comes with the territory being a lower league club. Its not oftern you get a tilly or a Howe who live and breathe a club until they are sacked.
5.if we get relegated id not give MM 3 seconds, was he to blame for the embargo...no, is he to blame for horrendous tactics ever since...yes. we have a reasonable nucleus of a decent team, keep the best and get rid of the other 48