Mooney - enough of a threat?

[mrsblue]

The conclusion that is.....Mrsblues conclusion is always wrong

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:Another great post from you !:hilarious:

 

[BrettieAngell]

He's a very good player. No striker will score goals in a Phil Brown team.

*cough* Barry Corr *cough*

 

[Jai]

*cough* Barry Corr *cough*

One way of looking at it. Another is that Barry is as close as you can get to a guaranteed 20-25 goal a year striker in League 2. In a Brown team he only got 16, a few of those were from the spot (which still count of course but my point is we don't create much for strikers from open play).

 

[manor15]

One way of looking at it. Another is that Barry is as close as you can get to a guaranteed 20-25 goal a year striker in League 2. In a Brown team he only got 16, a few of those were from the spot (which still count of course but my point is we don't create much for strikers from open play).

Agree with this. He's scored 10 in 15 in a struggling Cambridge side, yet managed 3 in his first 15 games last season here and only got 16 more over 44 games so looks like he'll beat that this season if he can stay injury free.

He said he preferred playing in a front 2, which he didn't have the chance to do until the very end of the season. We didn't play to his strengths, as we aren't currently playing to Mooney's, although he is more of a creator than a scorer like Corr, and so his goal tally seems worse.

 

[rigsby]

One way of looking at it. Another is that Barry is as close as you can get to a guaranteed 20-25 goal a year striker in League 2. In a Brown team he only got 16, a few of those were from the spot (which still count of course but my point is we don't create much for strikers from open play).

Why are you obsessed with your PB and strikers theory. Cambridge have 30 goals we have 25. last year they finished 19th this year they are 15th. We have had our best player injured BC has played most games. We have a much better team, abetter squad and abetter manager.
They have more money than us ( Man U game) which is why they doubled Corr's wages. They play a more direct (Luggy) style of football. So yes a tall striker gets more stuff pumped into the box and will score more but we will win more. There is a lot more to a team than strikers Plenty of people enjoy good football even if it is from their keeper, CB, full backs or their 6,7 or 8th choice midfielder because of injuries.

 

[Jai]

Why are you obsessed with your PB and strikers theory. Cambridge have 30 goals we have 25. last year they finished 19th this year they are 15th. We have had our best player injured BC has played most games. We have a much better team, abetter squad and abetter manager.
They have more money than us ( Man U game) which is why they doubled Corr's wages. They play a more direct (Luggy) style of football. So yes a tall striker gets more stuff pumped into the box and will score more but we will win more. There is a lot more to a team than strikers Plenty of people enjoy good football even if it is from their keeper, CB, full backs or their 6,7 or 8th choice midfielder because of injuries.

I don't recall slagging off Brown or how the team is playing. I just made the point (as part of the overall debate) that strikers won't score many in the system we play. As long as the goals come from elsewhere then I have no problem, indeed I'm delighted with how we've started the season and you'd be mad to swap places with Cambridge! My concern is the fans will turn on our strikers because on the face of it they're not scoring many goals, which is how this thread started and what prompted me to pipe up. They are, however, contributing to the team, which is the important thing.

So as long as supporters question the contribution of our strikers, I'll continue to give my views as to why, in the system we play, the strikers don't weigh in with a lot of goals. This theory goes further back this season (Barnard, Coulthirst, Woodrow etc were all capable of scoring goals but didn't do so while with us).

 

[rigsby]

I don't recall slagging off Brown or how the team is playing. I just made the point (as part of the overall debate) that strikers won't score many in the system we play. As long as the goals come from elsewhere then I have no problem, indeed I'm delighted with how we've started the season and you'd be mad to swap places with Cambridge! My concern is the fans will turn on our strikers because on the face of it they're not scoring many goals, which is how this thread started and what prompted me to pipe up. They are, however, contributing to the team, which is the important thing.

So as long as supporters question the contribution of our strikers, I'll continue to give my views as to why, in the system we play, the strikers don't weigh in with a lot of goals. This theory goes further back this season (Barnard, Coulthirst, Woodrow etc were all capable of scoring goals but didn't do so while with us).

Barnard not one of PB's choices, Where you one of the Zoners claiming he will come back and haunt us with bags of goals.

Likewise Coulthirst. As a loan player he had an assessor at RH every game. Spurs were shocked to see him go 11 minutes in a game without touching the ball. And no they did not blame PB. They like me could see he looked totally uninterested with zero movement off the ball.

PB wont pick Loan players just because their parent club want him too (Woodrow). Something Our own players clearly respond too, Which is why were 8th in L1 with some first team regulars on £1000 per week.

B******* to sulky strikers who think Southend's not good enough for them. Noel Hunt's attitude is excellent, as the whole club will see in the near future.

 

[mrsblue]

Barnard not one of PB's choices, Where you one of the Zoners claiming he will come back and haunt us with bags of goals.

Likewise Coulthirst. As a loan player he had an assessor at RH every game. Spurs were shocked to see him go 11 minutes in a game without touching the ball. And no they did not blame PB. They like me could see he looked totally uninterested with zero movement off the ball.

PB wont pick Loan players just because their parent club want him too (Woodrow). Something Our own players clearly respond too, Which is why were 8th in L1 with some first team regulars on £1000 per week.

B******* to sulky strikers who think Southend's not good enough for them. Noel Hunt's attitude is excellent, as the whole club will see in the near future.

Barnard was always going fail here,whoever signed him should be ashamed!
Coulthirst and Woodrow virtually offered nothing,yet both had an unbelievable amount of games,poor judgement or Phil had to play them,no matter what.
Nobody gives a damn if Hunt is excellent behind the scenes,we want him on the pitch doing what he is paid to do.

 

[Jai]

Barnard not one of PB's choices, Where you one of the Zoners claiming he will come back and haunt us with bags of goals.

Nope.

It comes as no surprise to me Coulthirst went 11 minutes without touching the ball. He's clearly a quick, tricky player who appreciates balls into the channel. I remember one game last season remarking that I had never seen us play such a ball to him. Woodrow has since become a Championship regular and an England U21 international.

I agree about Hunt's attitude, but he's yet to score from open play (both his goals were direct results of set-pieces). That's not to say I don't think he's an excellent signing, as he clearly is. The Peterborough game where he played with Mooney, both players caused absolute havoc and they were unlucky not to score more.

This brings us back to the original point. Mooney struggles on his own in Brown's preferred system. With Hunt alongside him he looked very good. Yet in the current set-up, Payne is thriving. He's a 'ghost', neither a striker or a midfielder, a player that floats around in the space created for him by the central striker. Mooney is playing well enough and drawing defenders away often enough to give him that space at the moment.

So what to do when Hunt comes back in? For me he has to start every time when fit and on form, but it's getting that dynamic right with the players around him. Some people think it's simple enough to look at a striker's goalscoring record and labelling him rubbish or brilliant. There is far more to it than that.

 

[rigsby]

Nope.

It comes as no surprise to me Coulthirst went 11 minutes without touching the ball. He's clearly a quick, tricky player who appreciates balls into the channel. I remember one game last season remarking that I had never seen us play such a ball to him. Woodrow has since become a Championship regular and an England U21 international.

I agree about Hunt's attitude, but he's yet to score from open play (both his goals were direct results of set-pieces). That's not to say I don't think he's an excellent signing, as he clearly is. The Peterborough game where he played with Mooney, both players caused absolute havoc and they were unlucky not to score more.

This brings us back to the original point. Mooney struggles on his own in Brown's preferred system. With Hunt alongside him he looked very good. Yet in the current set-up, Payne is thriving. He's a 'ghost', neither a striker or a midfielder, a player that floats around in the space created for him by the central striker. Mooney is playing well enough and drawing defenders away often enough to give him that space at the moment.

So what to do when Hunt comes back in? For me he has to start every time when fit and on form, but it's getting that dynamic right with the players around him. Some people think it's simple enough to look at a striker's goalscoring record and labelling him rubbish or brilliant. There is far more to it than that.

Pease don't go down that pathetic route, we already have that covered by you no who and your better than that.:winking:

We are hardly spoilt when it comes to set piece goal of the season are we. His goal at Coventry was not direct from the corner any way. Noel created the penalty at Coventry by riding two strong tackles (no one else would have) to set up Mooney.

He created Barrett's goal and scored the second v Peterborough. Who else could have played that pass to Coker for the winner v Scunthorpe.

We will see more than just goals from Noel and he will I'm sure silence his biggest critic.....Won't that be nice

 

[Jai]

Pease don't go down that pathetic route, we already have that covered by you no who and your better than that.:winking:

We are hardly spoilt when it comes to set piece goal of the season are we. His goal at Coventry was not direct from the corner any way. Noel created the penalty at Coventry by riding two strong tackles (no one else would have) to set up Mooney.

He created Barrett's goal and scored the second v Peterborough. Who else could have played that pass to Coker for the winner v Scunthorpe.

We will see more than just goals from Noel and he will I'm sure silence his biggest critic.....Won't that be nice

Pretty much agree with all of that. More than goals is what strikers like Hunt and Mooney provide, and that's my entire point.

And for the record, I pretty much disagree with everything 'you know who' says, so no worries on that score!

 

[mrsblue]

Pease don't go down that pathetic route, we already have that covered by you no who and your better than that.:winking:

We are hardly spoilt when it comes to set piece goal of the season are we. His goal at Coventry was not direct from the corner any way. Noel created the penalty at Coventry by riding two strong tackles (no one else would have) to set up Mooney.

He created Barrett's goal and scored the second v Peterborough. Who else could have played that pass to Coker for the winner v Scunthorpe.

We will see more than just goals from Noel and he will I'm sure silence his biggest critic.....Won't that be nice

Actually I have only mentioned Hunt on just a few occasions until the last week or so.

When the club were fishing for him I stated his past couple of seasons record was highly dodgy.
When I watched him on telly he blew me away with his speed of thought and movement which I mentioned on here.
Recently on around 3 or 4 occasions I have yet again queried his fitness.

Hardly his biggest critic but hey why spoil your version.

 

[mrsblue]

Pretty much agree with all of that. More than goals is what strikers like Hunt and Mooney provide, and that's my entire point.

And for the record, I pretty much disagree with everything 'you know who' says, so no worries on that score!

You two should get a room!

 

[rigsby]

You two should get a room!

How about the Roslin.....On club expenses......Sorry forgot that's your other obsession

 

[mrsblue]

How about the Roslin.....On club expenses......Sorry forgot that's your other obsession

Again i have mentioned the hotel on a handful of occasions:hilarious::hilarious:

 

[5scoops]

*cough* Barry Corr *cough*

corr cant cut it in league 1 that's why he will stay in the basement league,, but I would have corr over him any day

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

I'm a bit of an old wotsit :sad: ............ and I'm not sure that I consider Mooney (or Payne) as traditional strikers. But the original title asks if Mooney is enough of a threat ......... and the answer is sometimes. :stunned:

Mooney is not enough of a threat by himself (in the way that Crown, Cadette, Collymore and Eastwood were) but he does provide a threat when part of the correctly balanced team - and that being a balance with other "strikers" and the midfield as well. Sometimes Brown gets it right and sometimes the opposition get their tactics right.

Perhaps it helps to consider what it would be like if the player was lining up against us.

Overall, I am pleased to have him in our team rather playing for another team in our league. :thumbsup:

 

[Kris]

corr cant cut it in league 1 that's why he will stay in the basement league,, but I would have corr over him any day

I simply don't get this argument. Practically the same team as last season has made the step-up more than comfortably so far; why would Corr - one of the most influential outfield players - suddenly be out of his depth? The guy is already in double figures this season despite a spell out injured so is on course for yet another prolific season.

Why do I mention this? Because his style of play would absolutely bring out the best in the very player we're discussing in this thread! There's no point in comparing them because they are different types of players.

 

[Jonny_Stokes]

Dividing opinion nicely as ever, David. 'Works hard' 'Needs to stop diving' 'Playing up front on his own doesn't suit him' 'Doesn't score enough' 'We don't play to his strengths' 'Sees things other players don't' 'Doesn't bother challenging for headers' 'No pace to run in behind' 'Always offside'. Someone call "House!" - we've won Mooney Bingo. Plus çe change... :facepalm:

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

The difference this season, we have 16 different players all scoring for us, so in a way, we all shared the goals around.