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Muslims / left-wing's using violence as their only retort in Birmingham

Lord Football

Blues on Tour
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
3,505
Location
Sunny Southend on Sea
There's plenty of examples on this site of you doing exactly the same thing.

I don't think the items you've highlighted really compare with 'knuckledraggers', do you?

It amuses me that you probably think you've made a devastating point there.

No, knuckledraggers is much better. But it needs to be, because if I use long words the knuckledraggers don't get it.
 

ShrimperNath

Schoolboy
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
82
Location
Independent Republic of Albert Road, Southsea
Without being arsed to read any other comment in this thread (mainly coz I know what the knuckledraggers will say in advance of reading and not wishing to waste any more time), you do realise that you site you link to is a far right supporting site?

You are also aware that there were several very nefarious right wing organisations involved in the ruckus.

I've read the other comments. No surprises. I expect the site has been bookmarked by a lot of posters on the 'Zone, from some of the comments you see on here.
 

Reg Martin

No Relation
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
2,516
It would appear that this situation was primarily a case of the anti fascist group , starting on the right wingers.

Who on earth gave the go ahead for two marches to take place in the same day in the same place, when I am sure Villa and City would not be allowed to play at home on the same day .....

It was a march against Fundamentalists , fair call, I have no liking for fundamentalism myself, its just a bit of a shame that the anti fundamentalist group didn't mention the American Christian fundamentalists in their comments as it would have certainly helped their cause of not being racist.

What is your defintion of American Christian fundamentalist?
If it's:
a) American
b) Christian fundamentalist i.e. believe in literal truth of Bible
then I suspect higher proportion of black Americans fit the defintion than white Americans In what way are they racist?
 

osymandus

Life President
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
5,352
Location
Here there everywhere
What is your defintion of American Christian fundamentalist?
If it's:
a) American
b) Christian fundamentalist i.e. believe in literal truth of Bible
then I suspect higher proportion of black Americans fit the defintion than white Americans In what way are they racist?

When they take a literal interpretation (like the poorly educated Jihadists , who are also like any fundamentalists) and use that to justifty actions that are to the detriment of over groups or peoples .
 

Reg Martin

No Relation
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
2,516
When they take a literal interpretation (like the poorly educated Jihadists , who are also like any fundamentalists) and use that to justifty actions that are to the detriment of over groups or peoples .

Where does the Bible advocate Christians taking actions detrimental to non-Christians? Christ said all of the Old Testament could be summed up in two statements one of which was 'Treat other people as you would want them to treat you'.
Doubtless there are some Americans who label themselves Christians and who hold racist views but the casual way in which beliefs incompatible with Christianity are ascribed to "Christian Fundamentalists", especially "American Christian Fundamentalists", is usually more about anti-Christian prejudice than anything else.
If American Christian Fundamentalists are racist, how come a higher proportion of American Blacks are Christians than White Americans? Equally interesting is how Christianity is booming in former British colonies.
 

osymandus

Life President
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
5,352
Location
Here there everywhere
Where does the Bible advocate Christians taking actions detrimental to non-Christians? Christ said all of the Old Testament could be summed up in two statements one of which was 'Treat other people as you would want them to treat you'.
Doubtless there are some Americans who label themselves Christians and who hold racist views but the casual way in which beliefs incompatible with Christianity are ascribed to "Christian Fundamentalists", especially "American Christian Fundamentalists", is usually more about anti-Christian prejudice than anything else.
If American Christian Fundamentalists are racist, how come a higher proportion of American Blacks are Christians than White Americans? Equally interesting is how Christianity is booming in former British colonies.

Becuase as a rule the cultures of the Black Christian groups do little more then enjoy extreme singing , an easy abandonment (as IMHO all monotheistic relgions seem to ) abandonment of their own personal resbonisbilty (is pretty much a human treat anyway ), if using the more extremist Christian groups their come from the tradition American Bible belt and very really contain people of "ethnic" origin (thats propably changed more then in Billy Grahams day ).

Sadly theiur doctourines of what Jesus the Christ said and what became conservative christianity are a bit wide of teh mar but thats a differnet story all together . Basiclly both groups indocutrate people (Muslims and Christians ) in their own flavour of the relgion and send them forth into the world to screw it up . HOWEVER this is not the fault of the relgion , philosphey or social ideology but the silly tossers who dont question those in authority .
 

Reg Martin

No Relation
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
2,516
Becuase as a rule the cultures of the Black Christian groups do little more then enjoy extreme singing , an easy abandonment (as IMHO all monotheistic relgions seem to ) abandonment of their own personal resbonisbilty (is pretty much a human treat anyway ), if using the more extremist Christian groups their come from the tradition American Bible belt and very really contain people of "ethnic" origin (thats propably changed more then in Billy Grahams day ).

Sadly theiur doctourines of what Jesus the Christ said and what became conservative christianity are a bit wide of teh mar but thats a differnet story all together . Basiclly both groups indocutrate people (Muslims and Christians ) in their own flavour of the relgion and send them forth into the world to screw it up . HOWEVER this is not the fault of the relgion , philosphey or social ideology but the silly tossers who dont question those in authority .

How many Black Christians do you know? There are plenty who attend the church I go to and none of them fit your patronising, stereotypical, even racist view of them.
I am still not clear what you mean by "extemist Christian groups" of for that matter 'conservative Christianity".
Just because people hold religious beliefs that you diasgree with it does not mean they have been indoctrinated. Have you ever considered that you may have have been indoctrinated into the views you hold - which is in fact is exactly what the Bible says about non-Christians "whose minds have been blinded by the god of this age."
There are plenty of 'silly tossers' of no religious belief who have done a very good job of screwing up the world and plenty of 'good works' done by religious believers
 

osymandus

Life President
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
5,352
Location
Here there everywhere
How many Black Christians do you know? There are plenty who attend the church I go to and none of them fit your patronising, stereotypical, even racist view of them.
I am still not clear what you mean by "extemist Christian groups" of for that matter 'conservative Christianity".
Just because people hold religious beliefs that you diasgree with it does not mean they have been indoctrinated. Have you ever considered that you may have have been indoctrinated into the views you hold - which is in fact is exactly what the Bible says about non-Christians "whose minds have been blinded by the god of this age."
There are plenty of 'silly tossers' of no religious belief who have done a very good job of screwing up the world and plenty of 'good works' done by religious believers

I think youve missed my point , i was replying to your original post of what do the Black American Christians do in respect to the fundamentalist you were describing and i was using the term Black Christian in the same context as you as a describtion of a grouping . Do i know Christians over here yes, do i agree with the seperation of teh teachings between say the early Gnostic's the book of James and the early Catholic Church which took control and decided which teachings were "gospel" no i do not , and no im not indocterinated by anyone , i have no problems with any faith or creed, unless it is forced apon another , oh and for teh record yes IMHO Christianity can be called a form of indoctrination , as i recall your baptised as a child and rasied in the Christian way , to me thats not a choice.
 

Smudger

Manager
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
1,896
Location
Manama, Bahrain
I think youve missed my point , i was replying to your original post of what do the Black American Christians do in respect to the fundamentalist you were describing and i was using the term Black Christian in the same context as you as a describtion of a grouping . Do i know Christians over here yes, do i agree with the seperation of teh teachings between say the early Gnostic's the book of James and the early Catholic Church which took control and decided which teachings were "gospel" no i do not , and no im not indocterinated by anyone , i have no problems with any faith or creed, unless it is forced apon another , oh and for teh record yes IMHO Christianity can be called a form of indoctrination , as i recall your baptised as a child and rasied in the Christian way , to me thats not a choice.

If you were a Red Indian, you'd be called "Talking Bollocks."
 

Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
15,211
Location
Immersed in the accounts
What is your defintion of American Christian fundamentalist?
If it's:
a) American
b) Christian fundamentalist i.e. believe in literal truth of Bible
then I suspect higher proportion of black Americans fit the defintion than white Americans In what way are they racist?

The March was an anti fundamentalist march, by only highlighting Islamic fundamentalism the organisers left themselves open to accusations of racism.

Had they included the American Christian fundamentalists this accusation would have had less credibility.

There was nothing in the original post which accused the Christian fundamentalists of being racist
 

Reg Martin

No Relation
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
2,516
I think youve missed my point , i was replying to your original post of what do the Black American Christians do in respect to the fundamentalist you were describing and i was using the term Black Christian in the same context as you as a describtion of a grouping . Do i know Christians over here yes, do i agree with the seperation of teh teachings between say the early Gnostic's the book of James and the early Catholic Church which took control and decided which teachings were "gospel" no i do not , and no im not indocterinated by anyone , i have no problems with any faith or creed, unless it is forced apon another , oh and for teh record yes IMHO Christianity can be called a form of indoctrination , as i recall your baptised as a child and rasied in the Christian way , to me thats not a choice.

You claim not to have been indoctrinated yet you often accuse people you disagree with of having been indoctrinated.
Baptising children is not indoctrination. In fact, it does little more for them than getting their head wet. Many churches only practice adult baptism in line with the practice of the early Church as indicated by the Bible.
Some people are raised as Christians and then became atheists. Many people like myself were raised as agnostic or atheist and then became Christian.
You are obviously well read on many subjects including religion but your views on Christianity often stike me as being cliched and crude stereotypes. My own experiences are far removed from your perceptions.
 

Reg Martin

No Relation
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
2,516
It was a march against Fundamentalists , fair call, I have no liking for fundamentalism myself, its just a bit of a shame that the anti fundamentalist group didn't mention the American Christian fundamentalists in their comments as it would have certainly helped their cause of not being racist.

The March was an anti fundamentalist march, by only highlighting Islamic fundamentalism the organisers left themselves open to accusations of racism.

Had they included the American Christian fundamentalists this accusation would have had less credibility.

There was nothing in the original post which accused the Christian fundamentalists of being racist

I apologise as having re-read your original post I accept that you did not make the accusation I suggested.
I still remain puzzled as to why you particularly wanted the organisers of this march to also be against American Christian Fundamentalists in order to demonstrate their non-racist credentials since many of them are Black. All the atheist fundamentalists I have come across are White so it would have made more sense to suggest that the organisers declare their opposition to them.
 

osymandus

Life President
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
5,352
Location
Here there everywhere
You claim not to have been indoctrinated yet you often accuse people you disagree with of having been indoctrinated.
Baptising children is not indoctrination. In fact, it does little more for them than getting their head wet. Many churches only practice adult baptism in line with the practice of the early Church as indicated by the Bible.
Some people are raised as Christians and then became atheists. Many people like myself were raised as agnostic or atheist and then became Christian.
You are obviously well read on many subjects including religion but your views on Christianity often stike me as being clichéd and crude stereotypes. My own experiences are far removed from your perceptions.

Their taken from reading the bible talking to people raised as Catholics and questioning . The tenant behind and not just Christianity is to abandon yourself to a higher power , not just on an equal level but submissive , thy lords will be done . On that i cannot and will not agree.

I actually dont i claim it in a specific sense if my knowledge points me to that conclusion . And "indoctrination" come in many forms from social , ethnic and religious (the 3 often merging) .

And to say Baptism (never mind in the Christian faith ) is nothing more then wetting the head does show a very large lack of understanding of the rituals the most basic one of your own relgion (can you tell me who baptism Jesus for instance). Now i cant agrue against social works and sense of community that it can bring but what i find is many people (and not just christians ) never understand or question the rituals or mechanics of their faith which is a very dangerous thing . Now if you for instance question your Priest/bishop about the earl rite or if you celebrate a mass its significance i apologise but in my experince it is not questioned and its a sterotype that is sadly quite true.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
1,761
Location
i live in westcliff
why dont we all meet one day in the spread before a game and once and for all have a fuking good tear up, and put all the bikkering to bed once and for all, were all fuking stand up men with to much to say for ourselves after all
 

Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
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Immersed in the accounts
I apologise as having re-read your original post I accept that you did not make the accusation I suggested.
I still remain puzzled as to why you particularly wanted the organisers of this march to also be against American Christian Fundamentalists in order to demonstrate their non-racist credentials since many of them are Black. All the atheist fundamentalists I have come across are White so it would have made more sense to suggest that the organisers declare their opposition to them.

Basically the anti fundamentalist march only highlighted islamic fundamentalists, leading to accusations of racism, had they considered mentioning other Fundamentalist groups from other religions (ie Christian Fundamentalists) these accuations may have been diluted.

I did not particularly want them to mention the Americans jsut used them as an example of another fundamentalist group , and one which may be heard of by others.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
6,800
Location
Oregon
Basically the anti fundamentalist march only highlighted islamic fundamentalists, leading to accusations of racism, had they considered mentioning other Fundamentalist groups from other religions (ie Christian Fundamentalists) these accuations may have been diluted.

I did not particularly want them to mention the Americans jsut used them as an example of another fundamentalist group , and one which may be heard of by others.

But maybe they're not bothered by Christian Fundamentalists as they're not the ones strapping on the bomb belts? I don't really think it's racist to respond to those who threaten you - it's not as if Islamists are shrinking violets when it comes to saying what they want to do to our society.
 

Firestorm

Pedant
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
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Immersed in the accounts
But maybe they're not bothered by Christian Fundamentalists as they're not the ones strapping on the bomb belts? I don't really think it's racist to respond to those who threaten you - it's not as if Islamists are shrinking violets when it comes to saying what they want to do to our society.

Rusty, do you honestly believe they were protesting about a religious group who had its last detonation 4 years ago ?
 
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