Muttiah Muralitharan

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Warne all-day. Murali was/is a chucker who only got as many wickets as he did because the ICC bent the rules (nearly as much as Muarli bends his elbow), to stop all the sub-continent sides throwing their toys out of the pram about racial bias.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

So, Paul, I take it you don't buy the "born with crooked arm / underwent two rounds of bio-mechanical testing at respected universities where his action was cleared / Darryl Hair is an attention-seeker" theory, then...

:unsure:

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Nope, the only reason his action was accepted was beacuse the ICC changed the rules as to how much "flex" was allowed in a bowlers elbow. He got a lot of wickets with his Doosra, which IIRC he was banned from bowling for a while because that was over the already-inflated threshold. I will accept that he has a double-jointed wrist which gives the impression of chucking but is actually perfectly legal.

Hair maybe an attention-seeker, but he has been royally stitched up by the ICC. Note that Billy Doctrove didn't cop anywhere near the flak that Hair got after Pakistan refused to play at the Oval 5 years ago.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Hair maybe an attention-seeker, but he has been royally stitched up by the ICC. Note that Billy Doctrove didn't cop anywhere near the flak that Hair got after Pakistan refused to play at the Oval 5 years ago.

True - although Hair was the senior umpire that day, and ultimately called the game off; Doctrove merely concurred. Doctrove has got off lightly, however, of that there is no doubt.

 

[number11]

True - although Hair was the senior umpire that day, and ultimately called the game off; Doctrove merely concurred. Doctrove has got off lightly, however, of that there is no doubt.

I agree with BB here. The ICC has pandered to the Asian countries throwing of toys. Pakistan's behaviour at the Oval in 2006 was, in my opinion, a disgrace. In a sport where the umpire's decision should be respected, they should have taken their 5 run penalty and debated the merits later. To refuse to play based on not liking an umpires decisions is pathetic. Similar to Sri Lanka's reaction when Murali was no balled for chucking.

Interestingly, was watching Mike Atherton on Sky's Cricket Writers show and despite playing with Murali and clearly being a fan of his personally, he rated Warne higher as a cricketer.

PS. Lara over Tendulkar every day for me.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

It would be interesting (but virtaully impossible to collate), to see what %'s of available wickets Warne and Murali took i.e. Warne had McGrath and Gillespie opening the bowling ahead of him, so his opportunities for wickets would have been seriously diminished by the time he came on to bowl. Murali only really had Vaas bowling in front of him, so there would have been greater chances of taking wickets as more would have been available.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Nope, the only reason his action was accepted was beacuse the ICC changed the rules as to how much "flex" was allowed in a bowlers elbow. He got a lot of wickets with his Doosra, which IIRC he was banned from bowling for a while because that was over the already-inflated threshold. I will accept that he has a double-jointed wrist which gives the impression of chucking but is actually perfectly legal.

Hair maybe an attention-seeker, but he has been royally stitched up by the ICC. Note that Billy Doctrove didn't cop anywhere near the flak that Hair got after Pakistan refused to play at the Oval 5 years ago.

Whilst I agree the rules were initially changed for political reasons, later studies showed that all bowlers flex their arm. This then led to a further rule change whereby the % of flex is the same for all bowlers. By these rules, Murali was never a chucker and if he was by the previous rules, so were the likes of Brett Lee, Andrew Flintoff etc.

Agree Hair was disgracefully stitched up by the ICC.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

PS. Lara over Tendulkar every day for me.

Interesting. The Little Master over Brian Charles for me - purely on the basis that Sachin played with more artistry, and he also seems a more likeable character (which, irrationally, strikes me as important in a batsman). Lara came across as a miserable bugger.

Then again, Lara's achievements are all the more remarkable when you think of what a team of duffers he had around him most of the time - whilst Sachin was surrounded by some fairly useful batsmen, notably "The Wall" and "Very Very Special".

One other thought: Lara may have carried the team on his shoulders, but at times Sachin carried the hopes and dreams of India on his. He deserves a fair bit of credit for that.

Matt

PS Warne over Murali every day for me, incidentally. The buzz that would go round the ground when the ball was chucked to him was something to savour. More than any bowler of the last 20 years, Warney made things happen...

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Spin bowling is as much about personality and guile, as it is skill. And Warne had both in abundance.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Spin bowling is as much about personality and guile, as it is skill.

*wonders how BB ever managed to spin the ball*




;) Only kidding, mate!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Interesting. The Little Master over Brian Charles for me - purely on the basis that Sachin played with more artistry, and he also seems a more likeable character (which, irrationally, strikes me as important in a batsman). Lara came across as a miserable bugger.

I can understand people going for Tendulkar over Lara, but I'm a little surprised that you're going for Sachin on the basis of artistry. I thought Tendulkar was the more technically correct, but Lara with that high backlift (and being a left-hander) was the more pleasing on the eye to me.

Lara for me on both stats and artistry.

Then again, Lara's achievements are all the more remarkable when you think of what a team of duffers he had around him most of the time - whilst Sachin was surrounded by some fairly useful batsmen, notably "The Wall" and "Very Very Special".

One other thought: Lara may have carried the team on his shoulders, but at times Sachin carried the hopes and dreams of India on his. He deserves a fair bit of credit for that.

Chanderpaul weren't far off Dravid, but the rest of the WIndies batting was generally dire.

Full credit to Sachin for coping with the hopes of a nation though.

PS Warne over Murali every day for me, incidentally. The buzz that would go round the ground when the ball was chucked to him was something to savour. More than any bowler of the last 20 years, Warney made things happen...

Warney wasn't even the best bowler in his team. When McGrath finished a spell and Afghan's brother/Punter handed the ball to Warne, I felt relief. The buzz going round the ground was probably the excitement at seeing MP Vaughan smack him around a bit.....

There was also a sense of excitement in Sri Lanka whenever Murali was handed the ball (or indeed strolled out to bat)

Spin bowling is as much about personality and guile, as it is skill. And Warne had both in abundance.

Agree totally, and Murali wasn't short of either. Fantastic character.

 

[number11]

I always find Tendulkar a tad boring to watch. If anything he is 'too classical' and often it is flaws that make someone more interesting. I prefer idiosyncracies in a batsmen and Lara with his high back lift and one legged pulls was far more compelling to watch for me, and had far more stand out innings.

It's a shame that England hasnt really got a contender for greatest batsman or bowling or the past era!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Capey is well on his way to becoming a great in the Viv Richards mould.

Flintoff is up there as a great all-rounder as well.

 

[number11]

Capey is well on his way to becoming a great in the Viv Richards mould.

Flintoff is up there as a great all-rounder as well.

I would have said KP of two years ago was heading into a Viv Richards league, but he has stalled for 2 years, or at least not kicked on. Hopefully he shows the hunger over the next 4 years to stake his claim for that kind of accolade.

Regarding Freddie, he will probably be regarded highly for specific feats, (and was amazing for 2 years in the mid decade) but he could never get his bowling average below his batting. Maybe in part thats from playing when not fully ready(early years) and not fully fit (later years).

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

*wonders how BB ever managed to spin the ball*




;) Only kidding, mate!

Oh I didn't, most of the 1,036 victims ;), just hit them straight up in the air, or played for non-existant turn...

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I would have said KP of two years ago was heading into a Viv Richards league, but he has stalled for 2 years, or at least not kicked on. Hopefully he shows the hunger over the next 4 years to stake his claim for that kind of accolade.

We've had a few really classically elegant batsmen in recent years (Gower, Robin Smith and Vaughan jump to mind - the latter one of the most elegant strikers of the ball I've ever had the joy to watch), but none of them threatened to stray into the pantheon of the true greats.

Agree with the assessment that KP has stalled. Hope he kicks on - he clearly has the ego and the ability to be up there amongst the greats.

Most of the current England side is made up of battlers (I'd class all of Strauss, Cook, Trott, Colly, Morgan, Prior and Swann as battlers), rather than classically elegant players - not that I object at all to that. It's those battlers who might yet go on to win stuff. I'm also heartened that, for the first time in ages (ever?) we have genuine competition between Prior and Kieswetter for the wicketkeeper-batsman berth.

What's the line-up looking like for this winter? To me, it looks like the side is lining up as follows - with the selectors having questions to resolve where there are "slashes" between the players:

Cook
Strauss
Trott
KP
Morgan
Collingwood / Bopara / Wright
Prior / Kieswetter (wk)
Swann
Broad / Finn
Finn / Sidearse / Shahzad / Bresnan
Anderson

Incidentally... where, if anywhere, does Adil Rashid fit into all this; and whither poor old Onions? Is that it, for him, in Test cricket?

Matt

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

most of the 1,036 victims ;)

That deserves a :clap: - heck of a stat that, mate.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Thanks, it's something I'm immensely proud of as you can tell....

 

[canveyshrimper]

We've had a few really classically elegant batsmen in recent years (Gower, Robin Smith and Vaughan jump to mind - the latter one of the most elegant strikers of the ball I've ever had the joy to watch), but none of them threatened to stray into the pantheon of the true greats.

Agree with the assessment that KP has stalled. Hope he kicks on - he clearly has the ego and the ability to be up there amongst the greats.

Most of the current England side is made up of battlers (I'd class all of Strauss, Cook, Trott, Colly, Morgan, Prior and Swann as battlers), rather than classically elegant players - not that I object at all to that. It's those battlers who might yet go on to win stuff. I'm also heartened that, for the first time in ages (ever?) we have genuine competition between Prior and Kieswetter for the wicketkeeper-batsman berth.

What's the line-up looking like for this winter? To me, it looks like the side is lining up as follows - with the selectors having questions to resolve where there are "slashes" between the players:

Cook
Strauss
Trott
KP
Morgan
Collingwood / Bopara / Wright
Prior / Kieswetter (wk)
Swann
Broad / Finn
Finn / Sidearse / Shahzad / Bresnan
Anderson

Incidentally... where, if anywhere, does Adil Rashid fit into all this; and whither poor old Onions? Is that it, for him, in Test cricket?

Matt

You've missed Bell, out of sight out of mind? Bell will be in the Ashes squad ahead of Bopara and Wright. Whether Bopara gets the trip I think depends on how Morgan will fare in the series against Pakistan.

I've never had Robin Smith down as an elegant batsman, a great player of quick bowling and a ferocious cutter, but I wouldn't consider him elegant. Growing up I can still hear John Arlott waxing lyrical over Colin Cowdrey, whose cover drive was a thing of beauty. Cowdrey would seemingly lean into the shot, timed perfectly it would leave even the greatest of cover fielders (Colin Bland) flat footed.

 

[Dick Bate's Protege]

I always find Tendulkar a tad boring to watch. If anything he is 'too classical' and often it is flaws that make someone more interesting. I prefer idiosyncracies in a batsmen and Lara with his high back lift and one legged pulls was far more compelling to watch for me, and had far more stand out innings.

It's a shame that England hasnt really got a contender for greatest batsman or bowling or the past era!

Although he couldn't be classed among the all-time greats, I'd have liked to have seen what Atherton would have acheived had he played his cricket in the last decade amongst a competitive England team. All the talk of Tendulker carrying a nations hopes rings true for Atherton in his 90s pomp.