National Heath Service

[superblue24]

mrsblue raised one of the real issues earlier..... timewasters.

People should go to hospital when vital to do so. Sprained ankle, no. Flu, no.

https://www.theguardian.com/healthc...5/jan/12/a-and-e-patients-dont-need-ambulance

 

[mrsblue]

mrsblue raised one of the real issues earlier..... timewasters.

People should go to hospital when vital to do so. Sprained ankle, no. Flu, no.

https://www.theguardian.com/healthc...5/jan/12/a-and-e-patients-dont-need-ambulance

People go to a and e for things such as tiny splinters in their fingers,or how about the old favourite "I have a headache",or week end boozers who are legless ,causing mayhem whilst abusing staff,these should be fined £500 all day long.

Bloody messers and some type of charge must be put into place,then and only then the wards would empty

 

[rigsby]

This is the crux of the problem across many sectors at the moment.
Far too many people being paid far too much money for things that really shouldn't need their own separate "manager".

The whole public sector at management level is scandalous. They cut front line services whilst increasing their own numbers and awarding themselves super pay rises. MP's won't ever tackle the problem as when they lose an election that's the sort of job they will slide into.

 

[rigsby]

mrsblue raised one of the real issues earlier..... timewasters.

People should go to hospital when vital to do so. Sprained ankle, no. Flu, no.

https://www.theguardian.com/healthc...5/jan/12/a-and-e-patients-dont-need-ambulance

I wonder how our most avid Guardian reader will say about this.

I have heard stories directly from paramedics who have been called to a baby not breathing and when they turn up it is the Father with 'flu' who wants to go to Hospital. Forget stern letters or even fines.....A few years prison should sort it.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

yes it's news - 2015 planned, pre-arranged, agreed partnership. 2017 - emergency support. In 2015 the British Red Cross didn't declare a humanitarian crisis in the UK, in 2017 they have.

This is information that came from the Red Cross not the Labour Party. Do you really think the main opposition party should keep quiet on such things?

Complete hyperboil BRC seem to have an agenda.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You could have called a locksmith of course as it was not an EMERGENCY.

A fire appliance rides a minimum of 4 people so £150 per hour was good value. It was the same fee for other services like pump out a commercial property. But more to the point with Fire cover being dangerously reduced the last thing we needed was to be wasting time on some drunk, when there's a fire in someone's house.

Not one to be blinded by rules I did of course had ways of losing paperwork for deserving cases.

(It was late on a Sunday night and I'd only been in SS for a few months and certainly didn't know a locksmith there.Though I had to call one up to repair the lock (got the number from my landlady the next morning).And as I said, my flatmate had just moved out that weekend.I certainly wasn't drunk, though I'd have to confess to having a few on the Friday night before getting up early on Saturday to catch a coach to Bayonne).

Back on topic.Just been reading Ken Clarke's excellent account of trying to reform the NHS in the Thatcher years (entrenched interests with the BMA cited as a particular problem).

We certainly need an adult debate in the UK about how the NHS is to be properly funded in the future.

 

[superblue24]

Good.

(As someone who once left his keys in a flat in San Sebastian (the same weekend my flatmate moved out) and had to call the firebrigade out to get me back in, after a weekend in France back in the 80's, I find the FB's 150 quid solution a bit drastic.Suffice it to say I've never gone out of the house without my keys since).

you should be embarrassed to share this....

 

[rigsby]

(It was late on a Sunday night and I'd only been in SS for a few months and certainly didn't know a locksmith there.Though I had to call one up to repair the lock (got the number from my landlady the next morning).And as I said, my flatmate had just moved out that weekend.I certainly wasn't drunk, though I'd have to confess to having a few on the Friday night before getting up early on Saturday to catch a coach to Bayonne).

Back on topic.Just been reading Ken Clarke's excellent account of trying to reform the NHS in the Thatcher years (entrenched interests with the BMA cited as a particular problem).

We certainly need an adult debate in the UK about how the NHS is to be properly funded in the future.

You sound like the sort of person I wouldn't have lost the paperwork for. :smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

you should be embarrassed to share this....

You sound like the sort of person I wouldn't have lost the paperwork for. :smile:

Fair enough but I was a lot younger then.And, as I said,I've never done it since.:blush:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

mrsblue raised one of the real issues earlier..... timewasters.

People should go to hospital when vital to do so. Sprained ankle, no. Flu, no.

https://www.theguardian.com/healthc...5/jan/12/a-and-e-patients-dont-need-ambulance

I wonder how our most avid Guardian reader will say about this.

I have heard stories directly from paramedics who have been called to a baby not breathing and when they turn up it is the Father with 'flu' who wants to go to Hospital. Forget stern letters or even fines.....A few years prison should sort it.

Granted "timewasters" are a problem but for me the most significant quotes from this article

https://www.theguardian.com/society...warzone-nhs-doctors-describe-their-week-in-ae are:-

"We have a brilliant team, but are devastated by underemployment and underinvestment."

"We have a daily lack of beds’
I’m a registrar in one of the busiest emergency departments in the country. This past week saw our busiest day on record with nearly 200 people waiting in our department at one point."

 

[rigsby]

Granted "timewasters" are a problem but for me the two most significant quotes from the article are these:-

"We have a brilliant team, but are devastated by underemployment and underinvestment."

No there not. The main point is that 66% of calls did not need A&E treatment. Which is the very reason why my 83 year old mother was lying on the floor of Debenhams with head injuries for 40 minutes before an Ambulance arrived last month.

The one thing no business or service should remotely be considering is throwing more of our money at timewasters. Bill them or ban them. If they attack NHS staff give them a 5 year prison sentence as a starter.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

No there not. The main point is that 66% of calls did not need A&E treatment. Which is the very reason why my 83 year old mother was lying on the floor of Debenhams with head injuries for 40 minutes before an Ambulance arrived last month.

The one thing no business or service should remotely be considering is throwing more of our money at timewasters. Bill them or ban them. If they attack NHS staff give them a 5 year prison sentence as a starter.

Check my link and you'll see I was quoting from a different article.

I admitted in my post that timewasters are a problem.(Sorry to hear about your mother,btw).

As I said earlier, we need an adult discussion about how to fund the NHS in the 21st century.Avoiding bed blocking and adequate care for the elderly have to be part of that solution.

 

[rigsby]

Check my link and you'll see I was quoting from a different article.

I admitted in my post that timewasters are a problem.(Sorry to hear about your mother,btw).

As I said earlier, we need an adult discussion about how to fund the NHS in the 21st century.Avoiding bed blocking and adequate care for the elderly have to be part of that solution.

Sorry hadn't read it.

She is fine now thanks, still got sore ribs. Southend A&E were so busy they allowed me to take her into a room and bath her head and knees. The Nurse came in and agreed with me that although the cut to her head looked bad she didn't need stiches

I was left to monitor her in case of any compression signs to the head injury. With some x-rays we were still there over 5 hours.

I was in and out of the waiting area during that time and at least 3 people couldn't be found when called. 2 were found outside chatting on phones and having a fag. We ended up having nurses searching the toilets for the other one don't know if they ever found him/her.

As you feeling in the mood to be adult...What measures would you take to deal with people who falsely claim that their baby is not breathing?........ To me it should be a criminal offence to maliciously call an ambulance out on blues and two's because its obviously putting crew and public at risk even to get there. If someone else dies because of a medical emergency then Timewasters should be charged with manslaughter. After all the paramedics can be if they crash on route.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Complete hyperboil BRC seem to have an agenda.

What agenda would the Red Cross have? An organisation like that needs to be apolitical so would make no sense for them to make announcements that were not true.
Increased waiting lists, increased A&E waiting times, reduductions in permanent staff, fallout from contract imposition, cuts to social care being passed on to the NHS, A&E closures, etc, etc. All of this makes the Red Cross statement believable, shocking but believable.

 

[OldBlueLady]

What agenda would the Red Cross have? An organisation like that needs to be apolitical so would make no sense for them to make announcements that were not true.
Increased waiting lists, increased A&E waiting times, reduductions in permanent staff, fallout from contract imposition, cuts to social care being passed on to the NHS, A&E closures, etc, etc. All of this makes the Red Cross statement believable, shocking but believable.

Some charities DO have political agendas though, they can't help themselves so I'm not surprised the British Red Cross has declared itself here.

Time wasters are a huge drain, but sometimes people go to A&E because they can't get themselves a doctor's appointment. We'd do better to have a few smaller "drop in" type 24 hour accident centres but instead, they're talking about closing Southend's A&E and transferring it all to Basildon!
http://www.sept.nhs.uk/about-us/sustainabililty-and-transformation-plans/essex-success-regime/

I fail to see how this works when you have quite a prominent local airport in Southend - what happens if there's a critical incident there?

As I said earlier, and mrsblue agreed with, too many management roles on too high wages are a huge problem, combine that with the time wasters and the foreigners who abuse the NHS and that shows you the three biggest areas where improvements could and should be made.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Some charities DO have political agendas though, they can't help themselves so I'm not surprised the British Red Cross has declared itself here.

Time wasters are a huge drain, but sometimes people go to A&E because they can't get themselves a doctor's appointment. We'd do better to have a few smaller "drop in" type 24 hour accident centres but instead, they're talking about closing Southend's A&E and transferring it all to Basildon!
http://www.sept.nhs.uk/about-us/sustainabililty-and-transformation-plans/essex-success-regime/

I fail to see how this works when you have quite a prominent local airport in Southend - what happens if there's a critical incident there?

As I said earlier, and mrsblue agreed with, too many management roles on too high wages are a huge problem, combine that with the time wasters and the foreigners who abuse the NHS and that shows you the three biggest areas where improvements could and should be made.

timewasters are a part of everyday life from A&E to to the person who can't find their purse at a till then is sure they have the right change but it'll take a while, to Sunday drivers, to people who talk nonsense on Internet forums and claim to be an expert on everything when you don't really know if they know anything or what job they do or even what gender they are.

So so yes time wasters exist but if someone really wants to to to A&E for a sprained ankle then they must have a lot of time to waste if the sprained ankle is worth a 4 hour wait.
With foreigners using the NHS - their main influence is working for it. When Farage was banging on about health tourism no one backed him up. Sure it exists and it will add up to what sounds like a large sum of money but in the scheme of things if it was iradicated the NHS would not really notice to any great extent.
When experts who can prove who they are speak they don't mention those things they highlight an aging population and the £4.6 billion cuts to social care since 2010 and the knock on effects of that meaning those who would previously have been discharged now remain in hospital, and obesity and the impact of high sugar diets, and 7,000 reduction in beds, and the backlogs caused by Hunt's contract imposition strikes, the over reliance on contract staff, the impact on ending bursaries for student nurses, and yes the closure of A&E units and non availability of GP appointments.

British Red Cross are highly respected internationally and if you look at NHS's own figures you can see that there are big issues and I'd say it would be foolish to write off their warnings as 'political' when they are merely highlighting the symptoms- they haven't even mentioned Lansley's disastrous top down reorganisation (and the cause of a lot of those highly paid manger positions) or Hunt's contract fiasco - they are just saying how bad it is and that short emergency solutions are needed.

 

[OldBlueLady]

The ageing population though, has contributed through their working lifetime. I don't think it is wrong that they should expect the care they have contributed towards. Again, look at the care home system and the costs involved there and explain why and how people have been allowed to exploit this. That's what this all boils down to "exploitation" - get a grip on that and we'd have a far better service.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The ageing population though, has contributed through their working lifetime. I don't think it is wrong that they should expect the care they have contributed towards. Again, look at the care home system and the costs involved there and explain why and how people have been allowed to exploit this. That's what this all boils down to "exploitation" - get a grip on that and we'd have a far better service.

exactly and Corbyn has been saying this constantly in parliament (and then barated for not talking about Brexit instead) - the massive reduction in social care is having a massive impact on the availability of hospital beds. And the aging population has been a known element for years - it's a government responsibility to plan for that. At the moment the government are incapable of providing adequate solutions to healthcare needs and whatever people think the causes are it is the government's responsibility to make sure the outcome is that the NHS is adequate to meet those needs and that is not happening.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Sorry hadn't read it.

She is fine now thanks, still got sore ribs. Southend A&E were so busy they allowed me to take her into a room and bath her head and knees. The Nurse came in and agreed with me that although the cut to her head looked bad she didn't need stiches

I was left to monitor her in case of any compression signs to the head injury. With some x-rays we were still there over 5 hours.

I was in and out of the waiting area during that time and at least 3 people couldn't be found when called. 2 were found outside chatting on phones and having a fag. We ended up having nurses searching the toilets for the other one don't know if they ever found him/her.

As you feeling in the mood to be adult...What measures would you take to deal with people who falsely claim that their baby is not breathing?........ To me it should be a criminal offence to maliciously call an ambulance out on blues and two's because its obviously putting crew and public at risk even to get there. If someone else dies because of a medical emergency then Timewasters should be charged with manslaughter. After all the paramedics can be if they crash on route.

Glad to hear your mother's recovered OK.

Sorry but I don't think scapegoating is the solution to the NHS's very real problems.

More investment and joined up thinking has to be the way forward.

Even people like Ken Clarke believe in the principle that the NHS should be free at the point of use.So do I. Thatcher didn't,btw.

 

[mrsblue]

exactly and Corbyn has been saying this constantly in parliament (and then barated for not talking about Brexit instead) - the massive reduction in social care is having a massive impact on the availability of hospital beds. And the aging population has been a known element for years - it's a government responsibility to plan for that. At the moment the government are incapable of providing adequate solutions to healthcare needs and whatever people think the causes are it is the government's responsibility to make sure the outcome is that the NHS is adequate to meet those needs and that is not happening.

When Labour had power the NHS had nearly 30,000 managers ,this was down to Labour's muddled planning and the ridiculous red tape involved.....the wage bill just to cover most of these hangers on was incredible.Most of these roles were made up and handed to mates..jobs for the boys I'm afraid.

The aging population is a smokescreen,yeah people are living longer because of medicine,doesn't mean they are draining the system whatsoever.

If the public knew the wastage going on there would rioting in the streets.