New Pope

[Wessex Blue]

Anyone got any opinions on the new Pope? Is it a good appointment or bad.

Having read a bit about him on the BBC I was shocked to read that he was a former member of the Hitler Youth. I was hoping that the Nigerian Cardinal was going to be elected as the new Pope.

As a lapsed catholic I can't say that a hun pope is likely to entice me back into the church.

Raus, raus, schnell, schnell....! Into ze pews schweinhundt

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ April 20 2005,11:40)]Anyone got any opinions on the new Pope? Is it a good appointment or bad.

On the plus side, he got in very easily... a two-thirds majority after, really, only one day of the conclave.

That means that he has a lot of support amongst his fellow cardinals - so the church will at least be very united.

It has to be say, appointing "God's Rottweiler" or "The German Shepherd" - as I've heard him variously described - is not exactly what you'd call a radical or forward-thinking move. He was the papal Guardian of Doctrine under John Paul II, and so is religiously conservative. Expect more condemnation of homosexuality and more strident opposition to contraception and abortion. He may also follow his predecessor's lead on tyring to cover-up abuse of children by RC clergy, and that would be another backward step, IMHO.

I was struck, on seeing him last night on the telly, that he already looks old. He's 78. How many years does he have left in the tank? I'll give him 7 years tops.

After that, the church will probably be crying out for a reformer - perhaps one of the African cardinals who might really bring about changes in that troubled continent. Here's hoping, at any rate.

Matt

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 20 2005,11:49)]I was struck, on seeing him last night on the telly, that he already looks old.  He's 78.  How many years does he have left in the tank?  I'll give him 7 years tops.

I think thats one of the reasons he got in. After the length of time JP was pope they didn't want to rock the boat just yet, and this gives time for people to adjust.

Re: Hitler Youth. I'm pretty sure all german kids of that time were made to go to it, so i don't think that should be an issue.

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ April 20 2005,11:56)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 20 2005,11:49)]I was struck, on seeing him last night on the telly, that he already looks old.  He's 78.  How many years does he have left in the tank?  I'll give him 7 years tops.

I think thats one of the reasons he got in. After the length of time JP was pope they didn't want to rock the boat just yet, and this gives time for people to adjust.

Re: Hitler Youth. I'm pretty sure all german kids of that time were made to go to it, so i don't think that should be an issue.

Blimey. I agree with Shags.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ April 20 2005,11:56)]Re: Hitler Youth. I'm pretty sure all german kids of that time were made to go to it, so i don't think that should be an issue.

Agreed. And besides, forgiveness and repenting are pretty central to Christian doctrine, so he can show he's travelled further than most on those scores...

 

[Mad Cyril]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 20 2005,12:01)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ April 20 2005,11:56)]Re: Hitler Youth. I'm pretty sure all german kids of that time were made to go to it, so i don't think that should be an issue.

Agreed.  And besides, forgiveness and repenting are pretty central to Christian doctrine, so he can show he's travelled further than most on those scores...

German, Italian, African...who cares?

A celibate weirdo in a frock is hardly going to be in touch with the world of today.

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (Mad Cyril @ April 20 2005,12:37)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 20 2005,12:01)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ April 20 2005,11:56)]Re: Hitler Youth. I'm pretty sure all german kids of that time were made to go to it, so i don't think that should be an issue.

Agreed.  And besides, forgiveness and repenting are pretty central to Christian doctrine, so he can show he's travelled further than most on those scores...

German, Italian, African...who cares?

A celibate weirdo in a frock is hardly going to be in touch with the world of today.

Maybe the Catholic Church have decided that in appointing an ultra-conservative, absolutist, old-skool pontiff they can return to traditional values.

Therefore can we expect a renewal in Crusading after a 700 year gap? Clearly Pope Mengele Himmler I's experiences between 1939 - 1945 would put him in good stead for such a change in Evangelical direction...!

Also his youthful experiences would also provide him with guidance on finding a "solution" to the perrennial problem of homosexuality. (Except of course when it involved priests and altar boys)

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (Mad Cyril @ April 20 2005,12:37)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 20 2005,12:01)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ April 20 2005,11:56)]Re: Hitler Youth. I'm pretty sure all german kids of that time were made to go to it, so i don't think that should be an issue.

Agreed.  And besides, forgiveness and repenting are pretty central to Christian doctrine, so he can show he's travelled further than most on those scores...

German, Italian, African...who cares?

A celibate weirdo in a frock is hardly going to be in touch with the world of today.

I preferred your earlier post alluding to a youthful European tour.

 

[West Country Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 20 2005,11:49)]I was struck, on seeing him last night on the telly, that he already looks old. He's 78. How many years does he have left in the tank? I'll give him 7 years tops.

They didnt want someone to last as long as John Paul, so they decided to go for someone older this time.

I'm still not convinced with this selection. Thought they'd go for someone different. Lets see how he does......

 

[Mad Cyril]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ April 20 2005,13:01)]

Quote[/b] (Mad Cyril @ April 20 2005,12:37)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ April 20 2005,12:01)]

Quote[/b] (The Flying Scotsman @ April 20 2005,11:56)]Re: Hitler Youth. I'm pretty sure all german kids of that time were made to go to it, so i don't think that should be an issue.

Agreed.  And besides, forgiveness and repenting are pretty central to Christian doctrine, so he can show he's travelled further than most on those scores...

German, Italian, African...who cares?

A celibate weirdo in a frock is hardly going to be in touch with the world of today.

I preferred your earlier post alluding to a youthful European tour.  

From Germany to the Vatican City via Poland, Russia, France etc......

 

[Guest]

I'm still not convinced that smoke was white though...

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Not being a Catholic I couldn't care less who the Pope was. However I think I probably should care as when I wasn't paying attention the whole bloody country seems to have turned Catholic.

Either that or I wasn't paying attention in history classes and I missed the bit when after constant battles between Catholics and Protestants (which probably defined a vast period of this country's history), the Catholics actually came out on top.

You see, I was under the mistaken belief that this was an Anglican country (at least officially, unofficially its probably reverted to paganism). The last couple of weeks have shaken me out of my ignorance - hands up who else thought the "C" in BBC stood for Corporation not Catholics!

The blanket coverage far outweighs any coverage given to the choice of a new Archbishop of Canterbury (and how many here can actually name him?), a new chief rabbi and a new Islamic leader combined! I can only think that elements of the media were trying to fulfill their religious quota in one fortnight.

Going back to the original question, if the Pope is a Nazi, maybe he can drag the Catholic Church kicking and screaming into the early twentieth century, which would be remarkable progress. Nazism was in many ways an attempt to deal with modernity and how science and society had moved in. IMHO the Catholic Church has got to face up to the same issues and catch up with the 21st century (although the 20th century would be a start).

 

[W4 Shrimper]

A slightly disappointing, but predictable, choice.

The Catholic Church (I'm a tim incidentally, although I only go to mass every 3/4 weeks) is an ultra-conservative organisation, so we shouldn't be surprised that they've appointed an ultra-conservative pope.

The Church will hopefully, some time in the next few decades, turn round their unreasonable and outmoded stance on issues such as (officially) celibate clergymen, homosexuality and the use of contraception.

However, the doctrine of papal infallibility states that the pope can never be wrong - so it's very hard for an incoming pope to overturn previous policies, especially on really big issues like those listed above.

To sum up, I don't think we'll see much change from the status quo, although I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (W4 Shrimper @ April 21 2005,10:26)]However, the doctrine of papal infallibility states that the pope can never be wrong

I'd forgotten about that.

It's probably lucky that the pope doesn't go on a big weekend boozing session (e.g. at Oktoberfest - Benny16 is a Kraut, after all) and state at the end of it that henceforth, the colour black is in fact white.

Could pose some doctrinal difficulties, that...

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ April 21 2005,10:09)]The blanket coverage far outweighs any coverage given to the choice of a new Archbishop of Canterbury (and how many here can actually name him?),

I agree.

ps Rowan Williams

 

[W4 Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ April 21 2005,10:49)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ April 21 2005,10:09)]The blanket coverage far outweighs any coverage given to the choice of a new Archbishop of Canterbury (and how many here can actually name him?),

I agree.

Not a fair comparison though. The Pope is the spiritual leader for something like one billion people, Rowan Williams probably more like 10/15 million.

It would be fairer to compare the news coverage given over to the respective elections of Rowan Williams (C of E, Archbishop of Canterbury) and Cormac Murphy O'Connor (RC, Bishop of Westminster).

I'm certain you'll find that in that case, the Archbishop of Canterbury would have had far more press coverage.

 

[Wessex Blue]

Quote[/b] (W4 Shrimper @ April 21 2005,11:03)]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ April 21 2005,10:49)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ April 21 2005,10:09)]The blanket coverage far outweighs any coverage given to the choice of a new Archbishop of Canterbury (and how many here can actually name him?),

I agree.

Not a fair comparison though. The Pope is the spiritual leader for something like one billion people, Rowan Williams probably more like 10/15 million.

It would be fairer to compare the news coverage given over to the respective elections of Rowan Williams (C of E, Archbishop of Canterbury) and Cormac Murphy O'Connor (RC, Bishop of Westminster).

I'm certain you'll find that in that case, the Archbishop of Canterbury would have had far more press coverage.

Wrong W4, the wider Anglican community encompasses something like 200 million when you include the Episcopalian churches in the US and the Anglican church in the Commonwealth.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (W4 Shrimper @ April 21 2005,11:03)]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ April 21 2005,10:49)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ April 21 2005,10:09)]The blanket coverage far outweighs any coverage given to the choice of a new Archbishop of Canterbury (and how many here can actually name him?),

I agree.

Not a fair comparison though.

Ooh selective quoting! I said the combined total for the election of new heads of the C of E, Jewish and Islamic faiths.

 

[Wessex Blue]

Re Papal infallibillity - What happened when the Papacy was split between Rome and Avignon, there were two Popes, which one was infallible?

Wasn't a horse elected as Pope at some point?

I've been reading as well that Ratzinger wasn't actually elected by the Cardinals, it was apparently the holy spirit that chose him. I'm confused by that, why do they go through the sham of an election if that's the case?

 

[W4 Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ April 21 2005,11:21)]

Quote[/b] (W4 Shrimper @ April 21 2005,11:03)]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ April 21 2005,10:49)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ April 21 2005,10:09)]The blanket coverage far outweighs any coverage given to the choice of a new Archbishop of Canterbury (and how many here can actually name him?),

I agree.

Not a fair comparison though.

Ooh selective quoting!  I said the combined total for the election of new heads of the C of E, Jewish and Islamic faiths.

Ish. I've no idea how the leaders of the other churches in the UK are elected/selected, (and indeed in the case of the Muslims, don't know who he even is) so didn't comment.

But as WB just pointed out, turns out I was wrong about the C of E too