New Stadium...different view

[blue shrimp]

I believe the sheer size of FF will more than likely become our achilles heel,During our last season in the championship Roots Hall offers around 235,000 home seats available over 23 games,Yet only around 195,000 were actually sold which of course begs the question why build the proposed 22000 seater arena.

I personally would of built a 14000 4 sided stadium(cannot stand bowls)complete with the most lavish main stand money could buy,Various amenities would be offered within the main stand adding extra revenue streams for the football club.

FF could then become our chairmans fantasy with the possibility of a canal being built thus giving the rich and famous somewhere to moor whilst spending a fat wad in the casino.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Thank god you're not the Chairman then.

 

[blue shrimp]

Oops I meant to say the 14000 stadium should have been built at Boots and Laces.

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

Oops I meant to say the 14000 stadium should have been built at Boots and Laces.

Have you any idea of the relative locations of Fossetts Farm and Boots and Laces ??

clown

 

[blue shrimp]

Thank god you're not the Chairman then.

After many years of our chairman he has worked wonders,The team currently playing one division higher with our manager cash strapped,All assets long gone and not forgetting county court appearances and who could forget the potential current winding up order,Nearly forgot club debt doubled and further losses to come.

Tough act to follow.

 

[blue shrimp]

Have you any idea of the relative locations of Fossetts Farm and Boots and Laces ??

clown

Yes of course...Your point being?



Div

 

[sammyboy]

The stadium itself will gain more intrest and more fans. If we are ever to progress we need a big stadium, a 14,000 just is not big enough. I think the plans are perfect although my only concern is the placement of the stadium. If it was possible I think the best place would be where it is now or a little closer to town like where Sanctos (sp. the shop) is.

EDIT - I do agree with the bowl point, I prefer stadiums like anfield etc but its modern and I think that will help generate new younger fans to come to the game.

 

[blue shrimp]

The stadium itself will gain more intrest and more fans. If we are ever to progress we need a big stadium, a 14,000 just is not big enough. I think the plans are perfect although my only concern is the placement of the stadium. If it was possible I think the best place would be where it is now or a little closer to town like where Sanctos (sp. the shop) is.

My concern being if the club cannot sell 10000 home seats playing against top clubs what chance is there of selling 19000(not including 3000 away)?

 

[fredheim_holm]

Yeah, we should build a 4 sided stadium because you like it, regardless of financial implications etc. :D

 

[sammyboy]

My concern being if the club cannot sell 10000 home seats playing against top clubs what chance is there of selling 19000(not including 3000 away)?

I see this as well but a new stadium will generate a lot more intrest, people in and around Southend who dont normally go to games will be tempted, ok certainly not enough to fill an extra 8,000 but I think more away fans will attend, we will gain more season tickets generally the gat entry for the first year will be more than roots hall can hold at the moment, this has to be a good thing for the club.

Also if we are no make the championship in the next couple of season which I think we can, playing teams that are now in that league and the general standard of it plus with more and more tv intrest and away fans (BBC league show) we will fill a 22,000 stadium for a few of them games, but we have to get there first.

I think we will also gain fans where we lose them at the moment to London teams like West ham, spurs and Arsenal with a new stadium.

 

[Pubey]

My concern being if the club cannot sell 10000 home seats playing against top clubs what chance is there of selling 19000(not including 3000 away)?

Think of it this way.

We have a stadium of 12,000, and for cup games 15% (so 1,800) of seats go to visiting fans, leaving us with 10,200 home seats to fill up. This is usually the allocation for the league as well as we give the whole of the North Stand (2,000) to visiting fans. With segregation this is even less.

A stadium of 14,000 will therefore see 2,100 for away fans and 11,900 for home fans. It's barely increased our capacity and it's barely increased the amount we get in terms of gate receipts. There will still be games where this capacity is reached. Col U, important league games at the end of the season, and big cup games against Prem teams (of which we've had 2 in 3 years... we could have sold twice the number of seats I'm sure). Lets not forget that we tend to sell out most of our home seats in the bigger league games, and that the empty capacity is often in the away end. Plenty of times I've phoned up late and struggled to get 2 seats together.

Also you need to remember that there are large economies of scale when building stadia, and that the marginal cost of increasing a stadium from 14,000 to 22,000 is a lot less than increasing a stadium from 7,000 to 14,000 (it literally is just putting in an extra few rows of seats)... or expanding an existing stadium. We might as well do it now, have some empty seats and then use the increased revenue flow to add to the team and look to get into the CCC. Once we're there we have the financial ability to stay there and the capacity to expand our fan base.

 

[blue shrimp]

Think of it this way.

We have a stadium of 12,000, and for cup games 15% (so 1,800) of seats go to visiting fans, leaving us with 10,200 home seats to fill up. This is usually the allocation for the league as well as we give the whole of the North Stand (2,000) to visiting fans. With segregation this is even less.

A stadium of 14,000 will therefore see 2,100 for away fans and 11,900 for home fans. It's barely increased our capacity and it's barely increased the amount we get in terms of gate receipts. There will still be games where this capacity is reached. Col U, important league games at the end of the season, and big cup games against Prem teams (of which we've had 2 in 3 years... we could have sold twice the number of seats I'm sure). Lets not forget that we tend to sell out most of our home seats in the bigger league games, and that the empty capacity is often in the away end. Plenty of times I've phoned up late and struggled to get 2 seats together.

Also you need to remember that there are large economies of scale when building stadia, and that the marginal cost of increasing a stadium from 14,000 to 22,000 is a lot less than increasing a stadium from 7,000 to 14,000 (it literally is just putting in an extra few rows of seats)... or expanding an existing stadium. We might as well do it now, have some empty seats and then use the increased revenue flow to add to the team and look to get into the CCC. Once we're there we have the financial ability to stay there and the capacity to expand our fan base.

Thank you for giving a good measured response.
Couple of items which i would like to pick up on,Firstly the recent game against Leeds attracted around 8500 home fans more or less leaving around 1500 empty home seats available would there be any difference if the same game was played in the championship in the 22000 seater? My guess the potential crowd being around 13000?Secondly season ticket sales would be blighted as there would be little cause to secure your seat as several thousand empty seats would be readily available.

Prefer to watch the team in a packed ground(14000) than one with possibly around 8/9000 empty seats.

 

[Pubey]

Thank you for giving a good measured response.
Couple of items which i would like to pick up on,Firstly the recent game against Leeds attracted around 8500 home fans more or less leaving around 1500 empty home seats available would there be any difference if the same game was played in the championship in the 22000 seater? My guess the potential crowd being around 13000?Secondly season ticket sales would be blighted as there would be little cause to secure your seat as several thousand empty seats would be readily available.

Prefer to watch the team in a packed ground(14000) than one with possibly around 8/9000 empty seats.

maybe, it's all guesswork.. but I'll assume Ron has done all the analysis to work out the optimal capacity. From our perspective we can only guess, however I personally believe that with a large catchment area and a lack of alternative football (one team in essex!), then we should be looking at getting a new stadium and really expanding our core fanbase in the next 10 years. We've already seen our average attendance more than double in 10 years, and I see no reason for that to slow down.

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

14,000 might be adequate for today's need, but shouldn't we be pleased that the club are setting their sights a little higher for a venue which will have to cater for our needs over the course of decades?

A 22,000 seater stadium designed with great consideration for the acoustics not only offers the club scope to take a big step forwards - and given that we could have sold far more than 12,000 tickets when we played Yeovil in League 2 we clearly have that potential - but has an enormous upside as a venue for other events. If Cuckoo Farm is good enough for England youth games, then FF's potential is through the roof in an area often overlooked by big bands and for other major events.

I support Ron's decision to build big unequivocally. Empty seats in the short term will cost us a lot less than being limited by our capacity in a smaller stadium would in the long term.

 

[GBJ]

but has an enormous upside as a venue for other events. If Cuckoo Farm is good enough for England youth games, then FF's potential is through the roof in an area often overlooked by big bands and for other major events.

IMO this is a pipe dream. A rather far fetched pipe dream at that.

The reason this area is overlooked, isn't because we are lacking a shiny stadium, it's probably because the appeal of playing in London, in famous arenas is a greater prospect than Southend.

The events being proposed are slightly far-fetched. No boxing promoter would ever consider FF as a venue, not just for the fact that we have 3 famous boxing venues close by, not just the fact that the greatest boxers want to fight in the best arenas, but the fact that staging a boxing event in an open air stadium is very risky weather wise. Hence why open air events are only staged when a) it is summer and b) the fight is so big it needs a large stadium i.e Hatton vs Lazcano 55,000,

I think concerts are the same. The biggest bands would overlook us in favour of venues such as The O2 and Wembley Arena/Stadium. Bigger.more famous stadiums in the Country's Capital will always appeal more.

As for England Youth games, we had one a few years back at The Hall that didn't even sell out. IIRC i thought the attendence was about 2-3k.

 

[Reg Martin]

I believe the sheer size of FF will more than likely become our achilles heel,During our last season in the championship Roots Hall offers around 235,000 home seats available over 23 games,Yet only around 195,000 were actually sold which of course begs the question why build the proposed 22000 seater arena.

I personally would of built a 14000 4 sided stadium(cannot stand bowls)complete with the most lavish main stand money could buy,Various amenities would be offered within the main stand adding extra revenue streams for the football club.

FF could then become our chairmans fantasy with the possibility of a canal being built thus giving the rich and famous somewhere to moor whilst spending a fat wad in the casino.

Though this is hardly a different view to what we've heard before and, ignorng your final sentence, it is a valid point of view.

We have got used to playing in a nearly full home ground.
The counter-argument is that anyone with memories beyond 2005 will remember the current ground 2/3rds empty and anyone who remembers Roots Hall with the old south bank and pre-all seating will have experienced a ground regularly 80% empty.

There is also a question as to whether we can attract enough fans.
The counter argument is that the catchment population is there and other clubs at our level with similar catchment populations have seen crowds increase significantly.

If we had been having this debate in 2003, your 14,000 stadium would have seemed excessive given crowds at that time so things do change.

Any club who builds a 14,000 stadium seems to me to be saying we see our future as a League One club at best. I believe Southend are capable of better than that.

There is an old saying about if you aim low in life you miss so I think the ambition shown by going for a 22,000 stadium is the right approach.

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

IMO this is a pipe dream. A rather far fetched pipe dream at that.

The reason this area is overlooked, isn't because we are lacking a shiny stadium, it's probably because the appeal of playing in London, in famous arenas is a greater prospect than Southend.

The events being proposed are slightly far-fetched. No boxing promoter would ever consider FF as a venue, not just for the fact that we have 3 famous boxing venues close by, not just the fact that the greatest boxers want to fight in the best arenas, but the fact that staging a boxing event in an open air stadium is very risky weather wise. Hence why open air events are only staged when a) it is summer and b) the fight is so big it needs a large stadium i.e Hatton vs Lazcano 55,000,

I think concerts are the same. The biggest bands would overlook us in favour of venues such as The O2 and Wembley Arena/Stadium. Bigger.more famous stadiums in the Country's Capital will always appeal more.

As for England Youth games, we had one a few years back at The Hall that didn't even sell out. IIRC i thought the attendence was about 2-3k.

I never mentioned boxing, and I agree with you that FF would make an improbable venue on that front.

As for concerts, if the Ricoh Arena as an outdoor venue can host the like of the Red Hot Chili Peppers against competition from indoor venues like the NEC then I don't believe it's unfeasible at all that FF could viably play host to touring bands who currently skip Southend altogether.

 

[GBJ]

There is an old saying about if you aim low in life you miss so I think the ambition shown by going for a 22,000 stadium is the right approach.

IMO i think this is the most crucial point. Yes it is obviously good to plan for the future, and to aim for the higher tiers etc etc.

BUT...

What is the chances of us actually hitting that level? In truth, we are in a world of debt, that doesn't appear to be easing up. We won't make/survive the CCC with no money, let alone consolidate there and aim for the Prem.

I can't see attendences doubling just because we've moved into a new stadium. Don't forget it's taken us the best part of 5-6 whirlwind years (that 90% of clubs will never achieve) of big games, relegations, promotions, Great players, big cup games, etc to double our average attendence. IMO if we stay in League 1, the attendences will more than likely stay the same as they are now, give or take 1-2k.

I also understand that we will make money off the retail outlets, but wouldn't that technically be RM's money? If the stadium is ever built, Will he a) still be here and b) want to pump his own cash into the club?

 

[GBJ]

I never mentioned boxing, and I agree with you that FF would make an improbable venue on that front.

As for concerts, if the Ricoh Arena as an outdoor venue can host the like of the Red Hot Chili Peppers against competition from indoor venues like the NEC then I don't believe it's unfeasible at all that FF could viably play host to touring bands who currently skip Southend altogether.

True, but you're omitting the fact that the NEC holds 13k people and the Ricoh holds 32k people.

It's just human nature that if you were a "top" band, you would want to play in big, famous arenas, in well known cities. I think you being a SUFC fan, and really wanting it to be true has clouded your mind. No disrespect, if you're happy yo believe that, then fair enough, but IMO TRHCP would rather play in London, in a famous arena like the 02, rather than Southend-On-Sea

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

True, but you're omitting the fact that the NEC holds 13k people and the Ricoh holds 32k people.

It's just human nature that if you were a "top" band, you would want to play in big, famous arenas, in well known cities. I think you being a SUFC fan, and really wanting it to be true has clouded your mind. No disrespect, if you're happy yo believe that, then fair enough, but IMO TRHCP would rather play in London, in a famous arena like the 02, rather than Southend-On-Sea

I wouldn't expect the Peppers to stop by S-O-S, I was just using that as an extreme example of an outdoor stadium attracting big names despite the proximity of indoor venues in a major city.

In my eyes the prospect of a decent sized band making a very respectable profit playing a 22,000 all seater stadium, with further potential capacity on the pitch, is a goer. If bands as big as Blur and Oasis were in their hayday were prepared to play the Cliffs Pavilion, then why not?