New Stadium...different view

[Reg Martin]

Popular opinion believes crowds are on the up yet after researching the database tells a rather different story.League games against Orient have dipped to nearly 1000 down from the highest attendance,In fact the 04/05 season the league 2 encounter had around 300 more than this seasons fixture .

I suspect we currently have around 7000 core supporters maybe even less,The opening fixture against Huddersfield was an attractive encounter because Clarke and Robinson were returning not to mention Town were amongst pre season favs,Yet only around 6500 home fans attended.

The stats for large stadiums are impressive yet how many are half full or less?Look at Millwall with their 20,000 smart ground,Always under half full and one of the stands constantly closed.

Fair enough but where do you see Southend's future?
Forever shuttling between league one and league two?
Where we are know and have finished for last couple of seasons would be as good as it gets if we go for the size of stadium you prefer.
I can understand people arguing for that but what I can't understand is why the same people then appear so unhappy with where we are now.
All our average crowds were under 8,000 between 1972 and 2006 so why aren't you arguing for a ColEwe or even a Northampton Town size ground?

 

[philtalkin]

No excuses against Oldham then,I predict our lowest crowd of the season being around 7500 maybe even less.

I don't think so, I know at least 3 other people who are going.

 

[united we stand]

.

I suspect we currently have around 7000 core supporters maybe even less,The opening fixture against Huddersfield was an attractive encounter because Clarke and Robinson were returning not to mention Town were amongst pre season favs,Yet only around 6500 home fans attended.

The stats for large stadiums are impressive yet how many are half full or less?Look at Millwall with their 20,000 smart ground,Always under half full and one of the stands constantly closed.

But you are not comapring like with like. Ron has made it very clear that we have to have Championship football or the business plan does not work. Millwall are not in the championship either

Only 'core sppoerters' would see Huddersfield as an attractive game. Non core supporters may have no idea who Clarke and Robinson are. If/when we get into the championship we will be playing against teams that 'non core' supporters want to see. And hopefully once they have been to a Southend vs Newcaste/bourgh/Ipswich etc game they will come back for more.

Is it dangerous having a business plan that depends on championship football - well that is another question

 

[grassroots]

But you are not comapring like with like. Ron has made it very clear that we have to have Championship football or the business plan does not work. Millwall are not in the championship either

Only 'core sppoerters' would see Huddersfield as an attractive game. Non core supporters may have no idea who Clarke and Robinson are. If/when we get into the championship we will be playing against teams that 'non core' supporters want to see. And hopefully once they have been to a Southend vs Newcaste/bourgh/Ipswich etc game they will come back for more.

Is it dangerous having a business plan that depends on championship football - well that is another question

...it shows a lack of understanding of the way football works - 'I want therefore I can have' just doesn't cut it in the world of football.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

Like is said, what are the chances of us consolidating in the CCC, let alone making the Prem league?

Many clubs have tried this, "build a new stadium, aim for the upper echelons of the CCC then push for Prem" method, granted some have succeeded, but there are those that have failed. Miserably. Now those clubs face financial obscurity.

I am afraid we could turn into one of those clubs.

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for a new stadium and a 22k seater would be pukka if we could fill it week in week out, but deep down, i think we all know we won't.

Speak for yourself

 

[blue shrimp]

And? 5 years ago that would have been one of the biggest crowds of the season?

5 years ago the club were looking at a 12000 capacity stadium.

 

[blue shrimp]

Fair enough but where do you see Southend's future?
Forever shuttling between league one and league two?
Where we are know and have finished for last couple of seasons would be as good as it gets if we go for the size of stadium you prefer.
I can understand people arguing for that but what I can't understand is why the same people then appear so unhappy with where we are now.
All our average crowds were under 8,000 between 1972 and 2006 so why aren't you arguing for a ColEwe or even a Northampton Town size ground?

Clubs future..Who knows as nothing is a given in football,You seem to have forgot the club played second level for several seasons watched by around 5/6/7000.Certainly not moaning regarding current or any previous status,My simple thinking being we will play at whatever standard thew team can handle.Regarding Colchester they built a nice ground for their existing fanbase..Guess what they are currently 5th.

 

[blue shrimp]

But you are not comapring like with like. Ron has made it very clear that we have to have Championship football or the business plan does not work. Millwall are not in the championship either

Only 'core sppoerters' would see Huddersfield as an attractive game. Non core supporters may have no idea who Clarke and Robinson are. If/when we get into the championship we will be playing against teams that 'non core' supporters want to see. And hopefully once they have been to a Southend vs Newcaste/bourgh/Ipswich etc game they will come back for more.

Is it dangerous having a business plan that depends on championship football - well that is another question

Fans witnessed games against Newcastle,Ipswich etc back in the 90s.

RM seems to change the goalposts when it suits him,Couple of years ago RM insisted we need 8000 to break even,The term break even i always thought meant was no profit and no loss yet crowds were/have been above RMs figure yet the club still post massive losses,Now RM states the club need champioship football to survive,Anyone care to explain what happens if the club never reach the championship or if the feat was achieved crowds were only at 11000 levels ?

It truly amazes myself when a property developer who freely admitted was here to only make money knows best.

 

[BrettieAngell]

5 years ago the club were looking at a 12000 capacity stadium.

We've got a 12,000 caapcity stadium!?!! I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Firestorm]

.Regarding Colchester they built a nice ground for their existing fanbase..Guess what they are currently 5th.

Col U built a 10,000 seat ground to replace one with a reported capacity of 6300 an increase of 58% , which applied to RH would mean an increase to 20500 (based on the reported 12,000 capacity (which we never get considering segregation etc)) not far different to the 22k being considered

 

[blue shrimp]

Bottom 12 of current championship table

Club Capacity
Scunny 9183
Sheff Wed 39,812
Donny 15231
Palace 26309
Derby 33597
Posh 15314
Forest 30602
Swansea 20500
Reading 24200
Barnsley 23009
Ipswich 30300
Plymouth 19500

Scunthorpe by far the smallest ground yet sit proudly above large clubs,Personally Doncaster sussed it out perfectly by building their stadium for their own needs and so far have done very well.

 

[blue shrimp]

Col U built a 10,000 seat ground to replace one with a reported capacity of 6300 an increase of 58% , which applied to RH would mean an increase to 20500 (based on the reported 12,000 capacity (which we never get considering segregation etc)) not far different to the 22k being considered

You know exactly what i mean,As in Colchester realised their fanbase was x amount and built accordingly with intentions of building inbetween stands if the need ever arose.

 

[philtalkin]

Col U built a 10,000 seat ground to replace one with a reported capacity of 6300 an increase of 58% , which applied to RH would mean an increase to 20500 (based on the reported 12,000 capacity (which we never get considering segregation etc)) not far different to the 22k being considered

I think it works out at just over 19,000 but still not far off 22K...

 

[weststander]

RM seems to change the goalposts when it suits him,Couple of years ago RM insisted we need 8000 to break even,

Ron quoted the 8,000 break even when we were in league one in 2006. Since then we've had a season in the Championship and signed players on Championships wages in a gamble to stay there. It didnt pay off as we know and we were relegated losing over £1m per season in TV rights alone ! as well as reduced away followings hospitality etc etc. As far as i am aware until the recent AGM he has not quoted a break even figure since.

 

[blue shrimp]

We've got a 12,000 caapcity stadium!?!! I'm not sure what your point is.

My point being is the board thought a 12000 capacity built on Boots and Laces would suit club needs,This plan was then altered to 16000 at FF then increased further to 22000,Seems to me the board were never really certain on what capacity would suffice,Still our good luck we have an all knowing PD running the show.

 

[blue shrimp]

Ron quoted the 8,000 break even when we were in league one in 2006. Since then we've had a season in the Championship and signed players on Championships wages in a gamble to stay there. It didnt pay off as we know and we were relegated losing over £1m per season in TV rights alone ! as well as reduced away followings hospitality etc etc. As far as i am aware until the recent AGM he has not quoted a break even figure since.

Would you not say it was mismanagement then?RM blames relegation on current club woes yet happilly admits the club need championship football to survive thus taking another huge gamble by building such a massive stadium.

 

[weststander]

Would you not say it was mismanagement then?RM blames relegation on current club woes yet happilly admits the club need championship football to survive thus taking another huge gamble by building such a massive stadium.

Yes, I would perhaps say that it was mismanagement but then would you rather have us not invested and been relegated by Christmas that season ??? I still think that we got promoted a season or two too early.

Being a businessman i am sure that Ron is taking a calculated gamble with the new stadium, after all if the club goes to the wall he will lose a lot of money himself, several of the current large loans to the club are to his companies.

At the end of the day life is a big gamble but we all still live it.......

 

[Reg Martin]

Clubs future..Who knows as nothing is a given in football,You seem to have forgot the club played second level for several seasons watched by around 5/6/7000.Certainly not moaning regarding current or any previous status,My simple thinking being we will play at whatever standard thew team can handle.Regarding Colchester they built a nice ground for their existing fanbase..Guess what they are currently 5th.

If you are happy with current league position and accept it as towards the upper end of our ambitions, then I accept your position of advocating a smaller stadium is a logical one.
Generally speaking though I have noticed that those wanting a smaller ground tend to be those who are most dissatisfied with our recent league placing.
ColEwe is a misleading (if not downright shameful;)) comparison. Their league position owes everything to a very rich owner and nothing to their fanbase or ground capacity. If anything it proves the point of the need for investment.

Bottom 12 of current championship table

Club Capacity
Scunny 9183
Sheff Wed 39,812
Donny 15231
Palace 26309
Derby 33597
Posh 15314
Forest 30602
Swansea 20500
Reading 24200
Barnsley 23009
Ipswich 30300
Plymouth 19500

Scunthorpe by far the smallest ground yet sit proudly above large clubs,Personally Doncaster sussed it out perfectly by building their stadium for their own needs and so far have done very well.

Scunthorpe announced their intention last season of moving to a larger ground and it remains to be seen where they finish in the table this season. My guess would be that their long term future will be in bottom 2 divisions, probably half of time in league two.
Doncaster are punching above their weight though as with ColEwe they have had input from a wealthy chairman
Peterborough, the 3rd smallest in that list, are also planning a larger stadium.
To me you cannot escape fact that money talks in football and the bigger the ground, the bigger the funds available, the more succesful the club.
There are always exceptions of clubs with small grounds having a few seasons in Championship but I think we are fooling ourselves if we think Southend are the one club who could have a long run with a small ground.
One of the reasons Steve Tilson has stayed with Southend so long may be because of the plans for new ground. If we had said we are going for a small ground, would he still be here. Building larger ground also sends out a message to potential signings. Once its built we will be a much more attractive option for players to come to.

 

[blue shrimp]

Yes, I would perhaps say that it was mismanagement but then would you rather have us not invested and been relegated by Christmas that season ??? I still think that we got promoted a season or two too early.

Being a businessman i am sure that Ron is taking a calculated gamble with the new stadium, after all if the club goes to the wall he will lose a lot of money himself, several of the current large loans to the club are to his companies.

At the end of the day life is a big gamble but we all still live it.......

Is it not the case that RM owns everything connected with the club so in theory if the club goes under RM will still collect monies from various sites and hey presto FF becomes a very tasty housing development for somebody.

I would love to sit in FF amongst large crowds watching the lads,Yet somehow to me its all above the standing of our club,Lets hope i am proved wrong.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I may be wrong, but I don't think FF is available for blanket housing, something to do with it's technical green belt status, so, no Ron is not going to make a killing from a housing development where the stadium should be.