New stadium or Dome Discussion

[OldBlueLady]

It should be something the Supporters Trust should do, doubt we'd get any answers. Does Ron have a public email?

Same format as any other person at the club, easily worked out. The Trust ask questions, Ron chooses to share what he wants to. You can't force the man to talk just because that's what supporters want.

 

[Sherif H]

Any reason why my post explaining the reasoning behind the delays was deleted mods?

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

I know we have a separate forum concerning this however we are now approaching the first anniversary of yet another proposal for the development of a new stadium and we have heard absolutely nothing from the club.

Rumours are that British Land have withdrawn from the development.

There appears to be a certain amount of apathy concerning this which is probably brought about numerous other proposals over the years which have all come to nothing, however without a new stadium or other major financial input the clubs whole future is seriously in doubt.

Somehow we need to put pressure on the club and RM for an explanation and update....

That's not quite true that we have heard nothing since the exhibition thing last year. What did happen is that a scoping plan was submitted with all the plans that were pretty much as per the exhibition. But not long after that another scoping plan was submitted with quite a few changes to housing and retail.
Since then nothing and it's pretty obvious Ron is not in a position to even submit planning permission and probably won't be for some time yet. Something which Sheriff H maybe pointed out in his deleted/missing post on here?

 

[McNasty]

Any reason why my post explaining the reasoning behind the delays was deleted mods?

I can't any trace of a deleted post Sherif, could you re-post ?

 

[Sherif H]

I can't any trace of a deleted post Sherif, could you re-post ?

Possibly because it was posted just before the thread was moved Ken?

 

[manor15]

I can't any trace of a deleted post Sherif, could you re-post ?

Possibly because it was posted just before the thread was moved Ken?

Possibly, I moved the thread and don't recall seeing your post Sherif but certainly didn't delete anything. Must be a glitch in the system somewhere, sorry!

 

[Cricko]

It must of got lost in cyberspace as the threads were merged, it has happened before....sorry about that Sherif. Please re-type your thoughts.

 

[Sherif H]

In short (and in response to Blue Heaven's query from yesterday)...

The sole reason a developer like British Land partners with a football club (like ours) is because they can forsee a decent long-term revenue or short-term capital return on their investment - in the case of FF, a down payment to help deliver the retail/commercial elements of the development to enable RM to have additional capital released to deliver the stadium element - ergo, the stadium cannot be delivered (in this instance) before securing the retail/commercial element, and signifies the importance of retaining our development partner.

The reason there is seemingly never an update on proceedings is because each time the market conditions change, the development mix (that is, the ratio of leisure to retail/commercial to residential etc...) needs to change to ensure maximum return on investment for both developer and RM. This throws up a largely irritating game of back and forth with the Local Authority Planning Department (in this case Southend BC), to whom a scoping opinion likely needs to be submitted each time there is a significant change in the proposals. The scoping opinion can take up to a month to receive a response, and will inform the applicant (in this case - RM/BL) whether the change in plans requires an environmental impact assessement to be undertaken.
The major issue with this, as far as I can see, is fourfold...
- Firstly, if you do need to submit another environmental impact assessment/report, then this can take months of continuous monitoring to complete, and nothing can be firmed up whilst this is ongoing
- Secondly, the planning system in this country is convoluted and unwavering when it comes timescales for response/comment/consultation/approval, so every time a new application is submitted it has to go through (potentially) months of the same process over and over again
- Thirdly, RM will be hemorrhaging money each time this happens - fees for designers, planning consultants, lawyers etc...
- Finally, in my humble opinion, many local authorities have planning committees who are strongly opposed to out-of-town retail development - basically anything which detracts from town/city centre High Streets. From what I can see, in Southend, there is a worrying abundance of empty, seemingly unlettable shop floorspace, and producing updated plans which keep loading more retail/commercial space into the mix can't be seen in a positive light

In summary, we are trying to get the balance right between a suitable planning mix to make the developer's investment worthwhile (and maybe this is why BL have allegedly pulled out...) and not ****ing off the planners - a tricky task which, you guessed it, takes a siginficant amount of time, effort and money.

 

[Smiffy]

Great post Sherif.

I have no idea what will happen with regards to FF. As far as I am concerned it is a dead duck and has been for years. The development is much too big and not viable. A development that size actually needs someone with money.

But, what I do know is we cannot continue posting losses of £1.5-2m every season, on top of a current loss of £14m+.....there is only so much slack the tax man will cut us, before they shut us down for good.

 

[Blues Heaven]

Great post Sherif.

I have no idea what will happen with regards to FF. As far as I am concerned it is a dead duck and has been for years. The development is much too big and not viable. A development that size actually needs someone with money.

But, what I do know is we cannot continue posting losses of £1.5-2m every season, on top of a current loss of £14m+.....there is only so much slack the tax man will cut us, before they shut us down for good.

Two very good and realistic truthful posts about the financial state and future of the club.

I think supporters need to start to appreciate the perilous state of the club. Plans for FF have grown and grown to try and make it a viable proposition for partners and us and it appears even one of the largest companies BL have come to a decision that it isn't.

It will be interesting what plans RM has if BL have withdrawn as rumoured. We all know that RH has been been neglected for years and has been rundown and at some stage soon we will have to spend sizeable amounts of money on it if we are to continue playing there.

The club like I said yesterday on a different post are living on borrowed time and unless there is a major change then in the near future we will be facing meltdown.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

I agree with the above. At some point the club is going to burst and we could feel terrible that we never asked questions/took action beforehand.

Somebody suggested a while ago that we should chant "Martin..what's the score ?". A familiar chant, but with a clever play on words. I suggest it's time we got TBV involved in a #whatsthescore campaign and inform the Echo, BBC Essex etc that the chant is in direct relation to the lack of information about the new stadium. I wouldn't do it after we've conceded, or when we are losing, because it just looks like a reaction to the performance on the pitch (which it isn't). I think it should be at a certain point in each game (ie in the 33rd minute etc)

It's only a small step, but shows the club we're starting to get impatient. If he ignores the message then i'm afraid we're into the realms of demonstrations in the car park etc. What are your thoughts, people ?

 

[amsemp]

I agree with the above. At some point the club is going to burst and we could feel terrible that we never asked questions/took action beforehand.

Somebody suggested a while ago that we should chant "Martin..what's the score ?". A familiar chant, but with a clever play on words. I suggest it's time we got TBV involved in a #whatsthescore campaign and inform the Echo, BBC Essex etc that the chant is in direct relation to the lack of information about the new stadium. I wouldn't do it after we've conceded, or when we are losing, because it just looks like a reaction to the performance on the pitch (which it isn't). I think it should be at a certain point in each game (ie in the 33rd minute etc)

It's only a small step, but shows the club we're starting to get impatient. If he ignores the message then i'm afraid we're into the realms of demonstrations in the car park etc. What are your thoughts, people ?

Great idea SS. I and many others I'm sure, would get behind it. It will almost certainly not change anything, but at the moment we're putting up and shutting up, so it's worth making our voices heard.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I agree with the above. At some point the club is going to burst and we could feel terrible that we never asked questions/took action beforehand.

Somebody suggested a while ago that we should chant "Martin..what's the score ?". A familiar chant, but with a clever play on words. I suggest it's time we got TBV involved in a #whatsthescore campaign and inform the Echo, BBC Essex etc that the chant is in direct relation to the lack of information about the new stadium. I wouldn't do it after we've conceded, or when we are losing, because it just looks like a reaction to the performance on the pitch (which it isn't). I think it should be at a certain point in each game (ie in the 33rd minute etc)

It's only a small step, but shows the club we're starting to get impatient. If he ignores the message then i'm afraid we're into the realms of demonstrations in the car park etc. What are your thoughts, people ?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't TBV created as a support for the team? If you're going to call on people to do this then, personally, I think it's wrong to expect the very group created to encourage the team to do so.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't TBV created as a support for the team? If you're going to call on people to do this then, personally, I think it's wrong to expect the very group created to encourage the team to do so.

They will be supporting the team. They always have, and no doubt, always will. That is the reason why I suggest it shouldn't be related to the score or the performance of the players. It should be at specific time in the game and directly aimed at Ron.

 

[Jai]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't TBV created as a support for the team? If you're going to call on people to do this then, personally, I think it's wrong to expect the very group created to encourage the team to do so.

They're not having a go at the team though. When do you suggest it is done if not at matches? If the protest is well publicised, the players will be aware they're not the targets. I think a certain minute is not a bad idea. I'd suggest half time, but Ron will be comfortably in the Lounge enjoying his port.

I think it's a great idea. It may not achieve anything, but what's the harm in trying?

 

[Jai]

16th minute would be good, as that's how long in years since the FF plans were first publicised.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

16th minute would be good, as that's how long in years since the FF plans were first publicised.

Perfect ! :thumbsup:

 

[londonblue]

Two very good and realistic truthful posts about the financial state and future of the club.

I think supporters need to start to appreciate the perilous state of the club. Plans for FF have grown and grown to try and make it a viable proposition for partners and us and it appears even one of the largest companies BL have come to a decision that it isn't.

It will be interesting what plans RM has if BL have withdrawn as rumoured. We all know that RH has been been neglected for years and has been rundown and at some stage soon we will have to spend sizeable amounts of money on it if we are to continue playing there.

The club like I said yesterday on a different post are living on borrowed time and unless there is a major change then in the near future we will be facing meltdown.

Assuming BL have pulled out I don't get why they got involved in the first place. From what I've been told, the people involved with BL are the Ritblatts, who owned Delancey, and were involved with RM many years ago before pulling out. Why would they do the same again?

 

[Blues Heaven]

I am in total agreement that some kind of protest has to be staged. RM has made promise after promise and we are now in a situation that our debt will in the near future without doubt be our downfall.

The promise land of FF which if planned correctly and allowed to go ahead could of been our savour appears to be delayed yet again. It has got bigger and bigger to try and make it financially viable and it appears that even BL have decided against it.

We cannot all just sit back and ignore what appears to be a catastrophe waiting to happen.

 

[Sherif H]

Assuming BL have pulled out I don't get why they got involved in the first place. From what I've been told, the people involved with BL are the Ritblatts, who owned Delancey, and were involved with RM many years ago before pulling out. Why would they do the same again?

British Land was owned by John Ritblat (Jamie Ritblat's father).

Jamie Ritblat was a director of BL until 1995 when he resigned to set up Delancey.

If you look at information on Companies House, you'll see that various directors of Delancey (including Mr Ritblat) were involved directly with both South Eastern Leisure and Roots Hall Limited (two of Ron's companies) between 2000-2003 - basically the years when we issued the very first iteration of the new stadium plans.

So yes, in a nutshell, what you have suggested is correct, albeit Mr Ritblat isn't directly involved at BL (but I am sure maintains contacts therein).