Post-Match Thread and Ratings Oldham Athletic 0-0 Southend United

[OllieSteph44]

Are we now getting to the stage where, if we don't have four defenders, two sitting defensive midfielders and three forwards executing the press, we will concede four goals every match?

If we are then we have one hell of a **** team.

#ftheproject

What? Almost like a defend as a team type philosophy? Everyone pulling their weight and defending in nos?

Yep that’s generally what a poor team does when it’s in a spot of bother....it’s why manager like Pullis, Allardyce, Dyche and Hughton will always be linked to jobs where teams are in trouble and need to stop rots.....it’s where the theory that you can’t play your way out of trouble comes from and also why the “too good to go down” clubs tend to actually end up going down.....

 

[mfurok]

What? Almost like a defend as a team type philosophy? Everyone pulling their weight and defending in nos?

Yep that’s generally what a poor team does when it’s in a spot of bother....it’s why manager like Pullis, Allardyce, Dyche and Hughton will always be linked to jobs where teams are in trouble and need to stop rots.....it’s where the theory that you can’t play your way out of trouble comes from and also why the “too good to go down” clubs tend to actually end up going down.....

So our problem yesterday was that Acquah annoyingly isolated himself 60 yards from the rest of the team and didn't join the other ten defending in numbers?

 

[OllieSteph44]

So our problem yesterday was that Acquah annoyingly isolated himself 60 yards from the rest of the team and didn't join the other ten defending in numbers?

I didn’t watch yesterday.

I’m pretty sure our problem was though that they’re miles better than us.

 

[Barling Magna]

I didn’t watch yesterday.

I’m pretty sure our problem was though that they’re miles better than us.

That's true enough. They were very impressive and just overwhelmed us in the first half. The second half was more equal partly because they were more content to manage the game than storm it and partly because of MM changing tactics at half time. Acquah was a lone figure upfront for much of the time with nobody there to receive his lay offs or the misdirected clearances from defenders under pressure from him and yet the ball kept being booted up to him, or above him. We missed Akinola and we need Olayinka back as soon as possible. It would also be useful to have Bill Garner, Billy Best, Martin Carruthers and Barry Corr in their prime competing for places. As it stands Acquah is all we've got and we need to boost his confidence not undermine it.

 

[mfurok]

I didn’t watch yesterday.

I’m pretty sure our problem was though that they’re miles better than us.

Careful.

We appear to be agreeing again.

Having said that, if you had watched, you would have seen that Acquah was indeed left apallingly isolated throughout the first half.

As you know, I want Goodship to be given a run up front with a big partner.

I was looking forward to that happening in the second half but, for incomprehensible reasons (again), ludicrous substitutions precluded that opportunity.

Perhaps next time you don't watch you would lend me the spectacles through which you discern these improvements of which you speak.

 

[OllieSteph44]

Perhaps next time you don't watch you would lend me the spectacles through which you discern these improvements of which you speak.

I don’t wear spectacles, but if I did they’d be of no use to you and how you view football.

Despite poor results recently and some (not all) poor performances and lack of goals, which I’m more than able to see happening, the league table, the points total, the players within the squad all demonstrate quite clearly there is an improvement from the starting point.

Your problem, and it is a problem, certainly in terms of discussions with anyone with any history in education or coaching is that you are outcome driven based purely on what you see in each individual 90 minutes.

I didn’t hear a dicky bird or see a worthwhile post of note regarding performances (other than lack of goals) or results during the period we beat Cambridge and FGR and drew with Newport and Salford.

That’s fine in as much as we all only criticize when there is something wrong, but you play the finite game of results driven outcomes per game....each 90 mins separately,

A process is far more infinite and progress is measured ongoing rather than between two fixed short term points in time.

You do realize that it’s actually impossible in football to show improvement every game don’t you? I mean consider it properly and logically to its end and improvement every game ends where? Ever increasing winning margins and endless promotions....can’t happen can it.

 

[mfurok]

I don’t wear spectacles, (1) but if I did they’d be of no use to you and how you view football.

Despite poor results recently and some (not all) poor performances and lack of goals, which I’m more than able to see happening, the league table, the points total, the players within the squad all demonstrate quite clearly there is an improvement from the starting point (2).

Your problem, and it is a problem, certainly in terms of discussions with anyone with any history in education or coaching (3) is that you are outcome driven based purely on what you see in each individual 90 minutes.

I didn’t hear a dicky bird or see a worthwhile post of note regarding performances (other than lack of goals) or results during the period we beat Cambridge and FGR and drew with Newport (4)and Salford.

That’s fine in as much as we all only criticize when there is something wrong, but you play the finite game of results driven outcomes per game....each 90 mins separately,

A process is far more infinite and progress is measured ongoing rather than between two fixed short term points in time. (5)

You do realize that it’s actually impossible in football to show improvement every game (6) don’t you? I mean consider it properly and logically to its end and improvement every game ends where? Ever increasing winning margins and endless promotions....can’t happen can it.

(1) Perhaps you should?

(2) What was the starting point?

0-4 at home to Harrogate when our ridiculous project implemented a game plan that, inter alia, handed the opposition the most ridiculous goal I have ever, ever seen?

Anything would have been an improvement on that and the ludicrous tippy tappy nonsense.

(3) Back to the patronising nonsense. I thought you were going to stop that?

Fyi I have many conversations with people with a history in education and coaching. Fortunately they tend to live in the real world.

A previous poster has pointed out that his views are not based upon one isolated 90 minutes but a succession of similar 90 minutes. Mine too.

As I said earlier, madness is.........

Ask Rigsby if you missed it,

(4) Keep up.

We didn't beat Cambridge or draw with Newport.

(5) You are a management consultant and I claim my £5.

If there are no points in a process when performance is evaluated a bad process is in danger of going on forever. Best to be a 'consultant to' rather than a 'stakeholder in' those enterprises.

(6) To extricate ourselves from the **** that we are in we need to show considerable improvement for the final twelve games. Surely you must at least agree with that?

 

[LBBlue]

That's true enough. They were very impressive and just overwhelmed us in the first half. The second half was more equal partly because they were more content to manage the game than storm it and partly because of MM changing tactics at half time. Acquah was a lone figure upfront for much of the time with nobody there to receive his lay offs or the misdirected clearances from defenders under pressure from him and yet the ball kept being booted up to him, or above him. We missed Akinola and we need Olayinka back as soon as possible. It would also be useful to have Bill Garner, Billy Best, Martin Carruthers and Barry Corr in their prime competing for places. As it stands Acquah is all we've got and we need to boost his confidence not undermine it.

I’d even take Neil Campbell and Barry Conlon over the lot we’ve got now. Ably aided by Lee Hodges and Scott Houghton they dug out last time we got in this mess.

 

[Strykr]

I’d even take Neil Campbell and Barry Conlon over the lot we’ve got now. Ably aided by Lee Hodges and Scott Houghton they dug out last time we got in this mess.

Now youve gone too far sir.

 

[LBBlue]

Now youve gone too far sir.

Barry Conlon joined us a month before his 20th birthday and was sold to York at the end of the season.

Neil Campbell in the week of his 22nd birthday.

Emile Acquah is 21 in July for comparison.

 

[Strykr]

Barry Conlon joined us a month before his 20th birthday and was sold to York at the end of the season.

Neil Campbell in the week of his 22nd birthday.

Emile Acquah is 21 in July for comparison.

Age isnt linked to crapness.

 

[OllieSteph44]

Perhaps you should?

To view the world with such a negative stance as yourself? No thanks

What was the starting point?0-4 at home to Harrogate when our ridiculous project implemented a game plan that, inter alia, handed the opposition the most ridiculous goal I have ever, ever seen?

Anything would have been an improvement on that and the ludicrous tippy tappy nonsense.

So you agree there’s been progress. Good news. I’m getting through you.

Back to the patronising nonsense. I thought you were going to stop that?

You’re the only one who finds it patronizing because you’re the only one with a persecution complex based on anything i say post.

Fyi I have many conversations with people with a history in education and coaching. Fortunately they tend to live in the real world.

A previous poster has pointed out that his views are not based upon one isolated 90 minutes but a succession of similar 90 minutes. Mine too.

If you look at the succession of 90 mins since Harrogate you’ll accept that there is improvement. I won’t quote the exact figures as you’ll delight in correcting me but simply first 15 to last 15 games or pre embargo to post embargo should be a clear enough pattern to demonstrate evidence of some success / improvement

(4) Keep up.

We didn't beat Cambridge or draw with Newport.

Brilliant. Funny at best. Pedantic and hair splitting at worst. Either way 4 points from those two games or 8 from all four was my point.

If there are no points in a process when performance is evaluated a bad process is in danger of going on forever. Best to be a 'consultant to' rather than a 'stakeholder in' those enterprises.

I’m not even sure that makes sense? Maybe you’ve missed some punctuation? My point was it is actually impossible to improve with every game unless you actually see the day when Southend are premier and champions league winners each season ad infinitum. My point is, a process is exactly that....a process. Within that there will be ups and downs, fast and slow as well as times of regression. It’s success is of course based on its given end points. Arguably the end point for this process is only when MM leaves. So it’s also arguable that getting relegated isnt the end of the process or even that it’s failed. Unfortunately your end points are multiple and recur each Saturday at 4.45 or each Tuesday at 8.45. That’s not a process that’s a finite end result based on fixed terms and fixed rules and a fixed time frame. You can only have those if everyone agrees to them. Unfortunately for you not all fans agree to the same rules and end point and the owner of the game (Ron Martin) will decide the end date not you or I...like it or not. So until he decides to end the game, the process is still in progress....and to that end cannot be deemed a failure until then.

To extricate ourselves from the **** that we are in we need to show considerable improvement for the final twelve games. Surely you must at least agree with that?

Not really no. We could continue to be at the level of the last 4 weeks and if other teams continue to be at the same level they’ve been at we will be fine. 9 points in the last 4 weeks equals 18 points over the next 8 weeks.....if Colchester, Port Vale, Grimsby all continue in the same form they’ve been in for the last few week we’ll be fine.....

Now surely even you can agree with that.......

 

[mfurok]

To view the world with such a negative stance as yourself? No thanks



So you agree there’s been progress. Good news. I’m getting through you.



You’re the only one who finds it patronizing because you’re the only one with a persecution complex based on anything i say post.



If you look at the succession of 90 mins since Harrogate you’ll accept that there is improvement. I won’t quote the exact figures as you’ll delight in correcting me but simply first 15 to last 15 games or pre embargo to post embargo should be a clear enough pattern to demonstrate evidence of some success / improvement



Brilliant. Funny at best. Pedantic and hair splitting at worst. Either way 4 points from those two games or 8 from all four was my point.



I’m not even sure that makes sense? Maybe you’ve missed some punctuation? My point was it is actually impossible to improve with every game unless you actually see the day when Southend are premier and champions league winners each season ad infinitum. My point is, a process is exactly that....a process. Within that there will be ups and downs, fast and slow as well as times of regression. It’s success is of course based on its given end points. Arguably the end point for this process is only when MM leaves. So it’s also arguable that getting relegated isnt the end of the process or even that it’s failed. Unfortunately your end points are multiple and recur each Saturday at 4.45 or each Tuesday at 8.45. That’s not a process that’s a finite end result based on fixed terms and fixed rules and a fixed time frame. You can only have those if everyone agrees to them. Unfortunately for you not all fans agree to the same rules and end point and the owner of the game (Ron Martin) will decide the end date not you or I...like it or not. So until he decides to end the game, the process is still in progress....and to that end cannot be deemed a failure until then.



Not really no. We could continue to be at the level of the last 4 weeks and if other teams continue to be at the same level they’ve been at we will be fine. 9 points in the last 4 weeks equals 18 points over the next 8 weeks.....if Colchester, Port Vale, Grimsby all continue in the same form they’ve been in for the last few week we’ll be fine.....

Now surely even you can agree with that.......

Your maths needs some work.

6 points from the last 7 games is equivalent to 12 points in the last 14.

We only have 12 games left so we are on course for 10 points not 18........unless we improve of course.

Maybe talk to someone in education?

 

[OllieSteph44]

Your maths needs some work.

6 points from the last 7 games is equivalent to 12 points in the last 14.

We only have 12 games left so we are on course for 10 points not 18........unless we improve of course.

Maybe talk to someone in education?

Its not the maths it’s the parameters used for the equation.

I was talking in weeks, you’re talking in games. You’re comparing apples with orange old fella.

What pleased me most is that that’s all you could find to reply to......much like my post last week.

Once again, it’s getting boring, can you reply by DM now please before we send everyone to sleep AGAIN!

 

[RHB]

@OllieSteph44, @mfurok. Gents this is the post match thread for Oldham vs Southend and your exchanges are getting totally off topic. If you want to continue sparring maybe the pm system would be a better bet. Many thanks RHB