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Angell Delight

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
7,364
Location
Brentwood
I'm not even worried about relegation now, as far as I'm concerned we're down and I don't blame Tilson or the players one bit. How the hell can we expect the playing and coaching staff to be motivated when we're not paying them??? The way Ron Martin has shockingly mis-managed our beloved club - a club with 104 long years of history - is unforgiveable. He is the man to blame for this mess, I really cannot believe the situation we're in. And as usual it's the fans who suffer most, I'm worried sick that I won't have a club to support in a matter of days.

I'm not exactly well-versed when it comes to High Court scenarios of this nature, but perhaps someone with more knowledge can tell us:

(a) If we can't pay the HMRC what we owe at or before the hearing can the judge still give us the option to go into administration at the hearing or will we be immediately wound up?

(b) Is the club folding really the worst case scenario for Ron Martin financially (I hope to God it is, I really do for all our sakes)?

(c) Is it really in Sainsbury's best interests to ensure the club doesn't fold (ie. will there really be no Sainsbury's development if we cease to exist or is this yet more lies and spin from Ron)?

(d) What do you really think Tilly was referring to when he mentioned "other things going on behind the scenes?" What's the general consensus on here?

If we go under Ron Martin deserves everything he gets as he'll have destroyed the club, especially if his stubborness in not putting us into administration sooner and refusing to discuss a potential sale of SUFC in order to save the club proves fatal. I don't like fans protests and I think the last one post-Exeter didn't reflect particularly well but RM needs to realise just how strongly we feel about this club - it might just help him get off his a**e and find a way to save us before it's too late.

If Southend United dies thens so will my love for the game, that will be it for football for me because I certainly couldn't bring myself to support ANY other club. Twenty-two years a loyal Shrimper, I can't bear the thought of not making it to 23.

Heartbreaking. :'(
 

wiggy

Darryl's Love Child
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
3,777
I'm not even worried about relegation now, as far as I'm concerned we're down and I don't blame Tilson or the players one bit. How the hell can we expect the playing and coaching staff to be motivated when we're not paying them??? The way Ron Martin has shockingly mis-managed our beloved club - a club with 104 long years of history - is unforgiveable. He is the man to blame for this mess, I really cannot believe the situation we're in. And as usual it's the fans who suffer most, I'm worried sick that I won't have a club to support in a matter of days.

I'm not exactly well-versed when it comes to High Court scenarios of this nature, but perhaps someone with more knowledge can tell us:

(a) If we can't pay the HMRC what we owe at or before the hearing can the judge still give us the option to go into administration at the hearing or will we be immediately wound up?

(b) Is the club folding really the worst case scenario for Ron Martin financially (I hope to God it is, I really do for all our sakes)?

(c) Is it really in Sainsbury's best interests to ensure the club doesn't fold (ie. will there really be no Sainsbury's development if we cease to exist or is this yet more lies and spin from Ron)?

(d) What do you really think Tilly was referring to when he mentioned "other things going on behind the scenes?" What's the general consensus on here?

If we go under Ron Martin should be strung up, especially if his stubborness in not putting us into administration sooner and refusing to discuss a potential sale of SUFC in order to save the club proves fatal. I don't like fans protests and I think the last one post-Exeter didn't reflect particularly well but RM needs to realise just how strongly we feel about this club - it might just help him get off his a**e and find a way to save us before it's too late.

If Southend United dies thens so will my love for the game, that will be it for football for me because I certainly couldn't bring myself to support ANY other club. Twenty-two years a loyal Shrimper, I can't bear the thought of not making it to 23.

Heartbreaking. :'(

Good post, don't wanna blow me own trumpet but i called him a second hand bull ******** conman a year and a half ago!
 

Dick Bate's Protege

Minister for Equality
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
1,943
Location
In a Tory Wonderland
I'm not even worried about relegation now, as far as I'm concerned we're down and I don't blame Tilson or the players one bit. How the hell can we expect the playing and coaching staff to be motivated when we're not paying them??? The way Ron Martin has shockingly mis-managed our beloved club - a club with 104 long years of history - is unforgiveable. He is the man to blame for this mess, I really cannot believe the situation we're in. And as usual it's the fans who suffer most, I'm worried sick that I won't have a club to support in a matter of days.

I'm not exactly well-versed when it comes to High Court scenarios of this nature, but perhaps someone with more knowledge can tell us:

(a) If we can't pay the HMRC what we owe at or before the hearing can the judge still give us the option to go into administration at the hearing or will we be immediately wound up?

(b) Is the club folding really the worst case scenario for Ron Martin financially (I hope to God it is, I really do for all our sakes)?

(c) Is it really in Sainsbury's best interests to ensure the club doesn't fold (ie. will there really be no Sainsbury's development if we cease to exist or is this yet more lies and spin from Ron)?

(d) What do you really think Tilly was referring to when he mentioned "other things going on behind the scenes?" What's the general consensus on here?

If we go under Ron Martin deserves everything he gets as he'll have destroyed the club, especially if his stubborness in not putting us into administration sooner and refusing to discuss a potential sale of SUFC in order to save the club proves fatal. I don't like fans protests and I think the last one post-Exeter didn't reflect particularly well but RM needs to realise just how strongly we feel about this club - it might just help him get off his a**e and find a way to save us before it's too late.

If Southend United dies thens so will my love for the game, that will be it for football for me because I certainly couldn't bring myself to support ANY other club. Twenty-two years a loyal Shrimper, I can't bear the thought of not making it to 23.

Heartbreaking. :'(

Me too. Even my wife understands the pure heartbreak this would cause me.
 

Angell Delight

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
7,364
Location
Brentwood
Me too. Even my wife understands the pure heartbreak this would cause me.

Exactly mate, it's like losing a family member.

Anyone got RM's e-mail address? Not that it'd do much good I'm sure.....

To RM it's business, he doesn't realise he's playing with supporters emotions (not to mention players livelihoods).
 
Last edited:

Cricko

Zone Owner ⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Messages
31,720
Location
Leigh-On-Sea
This thought crossed my mind these past few days and was discussing it with Ken today.

The Prospects deal that Sainsbury's have put on hold..

They paid 2.1 odd to get us out of the crap with HMRC the last time in exchange for the same amount of shares and a PG from Ron.

We now face another court case for 400k....Now my thought's are maybe Sainsbury's have delayed the deal with Prospects until after as they wish to see if RM can find the monies.....after all if we were to be sent into the abyss they would also lose their monies involved..I doubt RM would have 2.1 mill in his back pocket to sort them out if he has nothing to sort HMRC out.

Chucking another 800k at SUFC might be deemed a sad inappropriate at the moment for the wise men of Sainsbury's.
 

GBJ

The Font of all Knowledge from Russia⭐
Staff member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
12,199
Location
Grays
(b) Is the club folding really the worst case scenario for Ron Martin financially (I hope to God it is, I really do for all our sakes)?

(d) What do you really think Tilly was referring to when he mentioned "other things going on behind the scenes?" What's the general consensus on here?

Can't answer them all, but i can offer my opinion;

B) If the club folds, Ron will still own a gigantic bit of land, worth millions, and he also has the planning permission to build at FF (another item worth a bundle)

So imo NO. SUFC going out of business isn't Ron's worse case scenario. Far from it. In fact, i'd go as far as saying he may benefit from it. He won't have to build a 22k seater stadium, won't have the worry of paying footballer's wages etc etc.

D) It really would not surprise me if the players have been told last week, that the club CANNOT pay the taxman, and will therefore be in admin, or out of business, which would mean 2 things 1) we're relegated already.... and 2) their wages can't be payed. Hence the lifeless performance against Yeovil and seemingly poor performance against the Gills today
 
Last edited:

Hotman

reason, honour, integrity
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
5,611
Location
Not here
This thought crossed my mind these past few days and was discussing it with Ken today.

The Prospects deal that Sainsbury's have put on hold..

They paid 2.1 odd to get us out of the crap with HMRC the last time in exchange for the same amount of shares and a PG from Ron.

We now face another court case for 400k....Now my thought's are maybe Sainsbury's have delayed the deal with Prospects until after as they wish to see if RM can find the monies.....after all if we were to be sent into the abyss they would also lose their monies involved..I doubt RM would have 2.1 mill in his back pocket to sort them out if he has nothing to sort HMRC out.

Chucking another 800k at SUFC might be deemed a sad inappropriate at the moment for the wise me of Sainsbury's.
For clarity, were the shares in RHL or SUFC?
 

Beefy

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
18,901
Location
Old Leigh
(a) If we can't pay the HMRC what we owe at or before the hearing can the judge still give us the option to go into administration at the hearing or will we be immediately wound up?

The Court (I believe) has no power/right/ability to put us into Administration off of their own back. It's a hearing to decide on the outcome of a Winding Up petition. If it goes the distance then the Court will have three option:

1) Dismiss the petition (if the debt has been paid)
2) Agree a adjournment (not likely at this stage)
3) Wind the Club up.

However if the Club are unable to pay off the debt by the day of the case then the logical step would be to voluntarily put the Club into Administration.
 

Hotman

reason, honour, integrity
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
5,611
Location
Not here
I'm not even worried about relegation now, as far as I'm concerned we're down and I don't blame Tilson or the players one bit. How the hell can we expect the playing and coaching staff to be motivated when we're not paying them??? The way Ron Martin has shockingly mis-managed our beloved club - a club with 104 long years of history - is unforgiveable. He is the man to blame for this mess, I really cannot believe the situation we're in. And as usual it's the fans who suffer most, I'm worried sick that I won't have a club to support in a matter of days.

I'm not exactly well-versed when it comes to High Court scenarios of this nature, but perhaps someone with more knowledge can tell us:

(a) If we can't pay the HMRC what we owe at or before the hearing can the judge still give us the option to go into administration at the hearing or will we be immediately wound up?
No, but we potentially can seek administration before the date of the hearing. My concern with this (which is guesswork on my part) is that RM will be reluctant to seek this as it will involve the club, and hence RH (due to the restrictive covenant) being out of his hands.


(b) Is the club folding really the worst case scenario for Ron Martin financially (I hope to God it is, I really do for all our sakes)?

Not if the above is true - RM will have Fossets retail park, Sainsburys will have Roots Hall. I'd imagine the worst case is the club being sold to someone else, as he knows that they can't afford rent! Also see above re: usage of Roots Hall


(c) Is it really in Sainsbury's best interests to ensure the club doesn't fold (ie. will there really be no Sainsbury's development if we cease to exist or is this yet more lies and spin from Ron)?

What do you think :)

(d) What do you really think Tilly was referring to when he mentioned "other things going on behind the scenes?" What's the general consensus on here?

Almost certainly the court case, I'd guess

If we go under Ron Martin deserves everything he gets as he'll have destroyed the club, especially if his stubborness in not putting us into administration sooner and refusing to discuss a potential sale of SUFC in order to save the club proves fatal. I don't like fans protests and I think the last one post-Exeter didn't reflect particularly well but RM needs to realise just how strongly we feel about this club - it might just help him get off his a**e and find a way to save us before it's too late.

If Southend United dies thens so will my love for the game, that will be it for football for me because I certainly couldn't bring myself to support ANY other club. Twenty-two years a loyal Shrimper, I can't bear the thought of not making it to 23.

Heartbreaking. :'(
.....................................
 

Angell Delight

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
7,364
Location
Brentwood
Can't answer them all, but i can offer my opinion;

B) If the club folds, Ron will still own a gigantic bit of land, worth millions, and he also has the planning permission to build at FF (another item worth a bundle)

So imo NO. SUFC going out of business isn't Ron's worse case scenario. Far from it. In fact, i'd go as far as saying he may benefit from it. He won't have to build a 22k seater stadium, won't have the worry of paying footballer's wages etc etc.

D) It really would not surprise me if the players have been told last week, that the club CANNOT pay the taxman, and will therefore be in admin, or out of business, which would mean 2 things 1) we're relegated already.... and 2) their wages can't be payed. Hence the lifeless performance against Yeovil and seemingly poor performance against the Gills today

The situation seems so bleak right now that I'd take administration (and obviously relegation) if it meant we still had a club next season. :'(

What concerns me most is that I think RM would prefer to see the club liquidated than go into administration as (as MC stated above) if the club was in the hands of the administrators they would most likely sell it to either the "consortium" or someone else if they were interested in taking us over. If Ron sees the club wound up when it could be saved by administration he'll have a lot of very, very angry supporters to deal with.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
487
Location
Chugging around on Leigh Creek.
The Court (I believe) has no power/right/ability to put us into Administration off of their own back. It's a hearing to decide on the outcome of a Winding Up petition. If it goes the distance then the Court will have three option:

1) Dismiss the petition (if the debt has been paid)
2) Agree a adjournment (not likely at this stage)
3) Wind the Club up.

However if the Club are unable to pay off the debt by the day of the case then the logical step would be to voluntarily put the Club into Administration.


And if my understanding of this is correct, if we go into administration at this stage of the season it means a 10 point deduction at the beginning of next. No?
 

Beefy

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
18,901
Location
Old Leigh
Can't answer them all, but i can offer my opinion;

B) If the club folds, Ron will still own a gigantic bit of land, worth millions, and he also has the planning permission to build at FF (another item worth a bundle)

So imo NO. SUFC going out of business isn't Ron's worse case scenario. Far from it. In fact, i'd go as far as saying he may benefit from it. He won't have to build a 22k seater stadium, won't have the worry of paying footballer's wages etc etc.

The planning permission at FF was 100% dependent on the football stadium being built for Southend United. No Southend United equals no stadium equals no development.

The development at Roots Hall is worth a mere fraction of the one at Fossetts and would be little more than a consolation prize to Ron (presuming that his companies would survive the failure of SUFC and the collapse of the FF Development, which I doubt that they would), and one which would be open to legal challenge due to the existence of the Covenant.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
35,959
Location
London
I'm not even worried about relegation now, as far as I'm concerned we're down and I don't blame Tilson or the players one bit. How the hell can we expect the playing and coaching staff to be motivated when we're not paying them??? The way Ron Martin has shockingly mis-managed our beloved club - a club with 104 long years of history - is unforgiveable. He is the man to blame for this mess, I really cannot believe the situation we're in. And as usual it's the fans who suffer most, I'm worried sick that I won't have a club to support in a matter of days.

I'm not exactly well-versed when it comes to High Court scenarios of this nature, but perhaps someone with more knowledge can tell us:

(a) If we can't pay the HMRC what we owe at or before the hearing can the judge still give us the option to go into administration at the hearing or will we be immediately wound up?

(b) Is the club folding really the worst case scenario for Ron Martin financially (I hope to God it is, I really do for all our sakes)?

(c) Is it really in Sainsbury's best interests to ensure the club doesn't fold (ie. will there really be no Sainsbury's development if we cease to exist or is this yet more lies and spin from Ron)?

(d) What do you really think Tilly was referring to when he mentioned "other things going on behind the scenes?" What's the general consensus on here?

If we go under Ron Martin deserves everything he gets as he'll have destroyed the club, especially if his stubborness in not putting us into administration sooner and refusing to discuss a potential sale of SUFC in order to save the club proves fatal. I don't like fans protests and I think the last one post-Exeter didn't reflect particularly well but RM needs to realise just how strongly we feel about this club - it might just help him get off his a**e and find a way to save us before it's too late.

If Southend United dies thens so will my love for the game, that will be it for football for me because I certainly couldn't bring myself to support ANY other club. Twenty-two years a loyal Shrimper, I can't bear the thought of not making it to 23.

Heartbreaking. :'(

Quick answers

(a) It never gets that far. If we haven't got the money, Ron puts the club into administration seconds before we go into the court room
(b) can't say for sure, but I'd be surprised if the club going under didn't drag him under as well.
(c) Sainsburys will get a store built quicker if the club doesn't fold. SUFC going under will complicate matters considerably.
(d) non-payment of wages I'd have thought, but Ron will be exploring every avenue he can think of. Most will be dead-ends, but hopefully he can find a way
 

BrettieAngell

THE ROCK GOD
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
19,642
Location
Southend
And if my understanding of this is correct, if we go into administration at this stage of the season it means a 10 point deduction at the beginning of next. No?

Yep you are right, I think if you go into admin after March the point deduction carries over.
 

Beefy

Life President
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
18,901
Location
Old Leigh
And if my understanding of this is correct, if we go into administration at this stage of the season it means a 10 point deduction at the beginning of next. No?

I think it depends on whether our existing points tally would be good enough to keep us up had we not gone into Administration. So effectively we take the 10 points but if we don't finish within nine points of 20th then they are added back on and then taken off again in August.
 
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