Our “superstars” Bentley and Payne.

[Zeuss]

This is all about the totally unrealistic expectations repeatedly expressed by some Zoners about Bentley and Payne just because they came through our youth system.
Watching the end of Brentford v QPR 2-2 last night on Sky,I straight away saw Daniel fumble a cross and get away with it.In added on time he did the same and this time QPR scored to make it 1-2.They then equalised.
Saturday before last I was in the Cardiff City Stadium,watching his 2nd minute butterfingers lead to the all-important first goal.If you watch the Channel 5 programme,you’ll know he’s been doing this regularly.(Amazingly,Luke Daniels is kept on the bench!).He’s always been very weak on crosses but remains confident and is still very young for a goalkeeper.Nevertheless ,it feels a lot safer with Mark Oxley between the posts.
Remarkably similarly,we’ve just seen Jack Payne play much as you’d expect at this level.He didn’t get taken off,for once,as both their strikers went off injured.Suffice to say,there’s no way in the world I’d swap him for Ryan Leonard(nor Wordsworth for that matter)!

 

[mattytheshrimper]

I still rate Bentley highly but I do recall him being directly involved in between 3-4 goals this season already that have been his mistake. I have also seen him get away with at least 2 errors which should have definitely led to goals if it wasn't for poor finishing/clearances off the line.

That being said I know he has saved 1 or 2 pens for them this season and I have also seen him pull off some fantastic saves. I suppose it's just the standard up and down's of being a keeper.

Oxley is a fine example of that. Looked a shocker of a keeper last season but this season he has been the biggest surprise for me!

With regards to Jack Payne, I actually think Lenny just stopped him playing constantly and didn't really allow him to get as involved as he would have liked. Fair play to Lenny there!!

 

[Bromley Blue]

I agree with some of what you've said here. We do seem to rave about our youth players like they're going to become world beaters, and they very rarely go on to achieve much.

I mean who is considered our most successful ex youth player? Kightly maybe? Few seasons in the Prem, won promotion in the Championship with Wolves but is now back in League One with us and not really setting the world alight. Or Isaac Hayden? A mainstay for Newcastle in the Premier League but will he go on to play for England? Probably not.

Apologies if I've missed some much more successful alternatives but these were the two that sprung to mind initially.

That said, we've had lots of players leave for half decent fees to bigger clubs over recent years and Ricky Duncan is regularly (and quite rightly) praised for the work he does with the youngsters. To be brutal, if they leave and achieve the club a decent fee in the process, we as a club don't have to care whether they go on to world domination after that.

I'd still have Bentley over Oxley, personally. He has this presence about him which is almost Schmeichel-esque. I'm pretty sure I read an article with Dan where he said that PS was his hero and you can see that in his play IMO. Yes he might be making a few mistakes but as you said he is still young and keepers aren't supposed to hit their prime til their late twenties anyway.

Jack Payne, for me, still looked fairly dangerous on Saturday. Yes he's certainly had better games but he could have quite easily added to his assists tally but for some wayward finishing from his teammates. I still can't see him playing much higher than lower-half Championship or League One though personally. Mainly because of his build tbh, I think in the higher leagues he'll just get outmuscled.

 

[Napster]

I mean who is considered our most successful ex youth player?

Spencer Prior. Played in Europe, won the League Cup, played in top division.

 

[Mick]

Remarkably similarly,we’ve just seen Jack Payne play much as you’d expect at this level.He didn’t get taken off,for once,as both their strikers went off injured.Suffice to say,there’s no way in the world I’d swap him for Ryan Leonard(nor Wordsworth for that matter)!

He has actually completed more League games than he's been taken off in !!

No, I wouldn't swap him for Leonard either and I'm sure Leonard will probably net us a similar amount to Payne or more.

A swap for Wordsworth ? Yes please. (If only for his relative fitness.)

Payne's a decent player who offers something a bit different, without being a "superstar".

 

[southendkid]

In terms of current ability I'd probably be more comfortable with Oxley in goal but remember that Bentley is only 24, which is very young for a keeper so it's probably a bit soon to be writing him off, he has a lot of potential to get better. If he does get dropped I expect Brentford will still want to retain him for that reason, I might be wrong but I don't think he was initially signed with the view of him being first choice. If they do get rid though I'd be surprised if Bentley had to drop back to League 1 unless he wanted a guaranteed first team spot, plenty of clubs will be interested in a 24 year old keeper that's made over 200 appearances.

Payne disappointed me against us, aside from a couple of nice touches in the first half he was pretty anonymous. He's got a lot of assists this season though so I'm guessing he usually looks more threatening than that. Payne is a bit of a luxury player, he's an attacking midfielder that won't do much defensive work and is unlikely to win many headers. If he finds the right club (one that plays attacking, passing football) he could thrive in the championship but if he ends up in a team that needs him to both attack and defend or one that plays direct football he's going to struggle.

 

[blue pilot]

Ironic that QPR were the source of the original big money bid for Bentley and his error helped them to gain a point.
Regardless of last night's error, most week you see him getting good reviews in most media and regularly gets 8/10 rated.

 

[rigsby]

I have been told recently by a keeper who's name you would all know, that Bentley id doing really well at Brentford and may well be getting a move to the PL.

Still if some fans on a Brentford forum don't rate him then obviously he can't be any good.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Bentley is a very good keeper with a lot of potential still to realise. For all the errors he is supposed to making he is still very highly thought of and I will be very surprised if he does not play in the top division. Payne will at least do a good job in the Championship. Some very good players look very good regardless of the team around them and others, Payne I suggest, you will see the best when he has quality around him on the same wavelength.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

Oxley has come on leaps and bounds this season and I genuinely wouldn't swap him for Bentley. I still do think Bentley is better and will have the better career but I can see Oxley being here for a good number of years. Seems to have settled in so well now and gets better every game.

Payne is a tricky one as he wouldn't really fit into our side at present but has undoubted talent.

Both on their day could prove to be the difference between a win, draw or loss but I seriously wouldn't swap them for anyone in our current setup / 11.

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

I have been told recently by a keeper who's name you would all know, that Bentley id doing really well at Brentford and may well be getting a move to the PL.

Still if some fans on a Brentford forum don't rate him then obviously he can't be any good.

A mate of mine with West Ham connections says he's on their watch list currently

 

[rigsby]

Bentley is a very good keeper with a lot of potential still to realise. For all the errors he is supposed to making he is still very highly thought of and I will be very surprised if he does not play in the top division. Payne will at least do a good job in the Championship. Some very good players look very good regardless of the team around them and others, Payne I suggest, you will see the best when he has quality around him on the same wavelength.

I thought it was noticeable how quickly Jack picked a pass on Saturday. His year at Huddersfield has certainly improved him.

 

[AndyT]

I have to admit that every time he picked the ball up on Saturday, it concerned me. In that respect, it underlines how well Lenny did and, dare I say it, the back-four.

On Oxley, sitting in the South Upper, you reallynotice how much he helps the back-four out with clear instructions on who to pick-up and when to clear the lines.

 

[londonblue]

Oxley has come on leaps and bounds this season and I genuinely wouldn't swap him for Bentley. I still do think Bentley is better and will have the better career but I can see Oxley being here for a good number of years. Seems to have settled in so well now and gets better every game.

Payne is a tricky one as he wouldn't really fit into our side at present but has undoubted talent.

Both on their day could prove to be the difference between a win, draw or loss but I seriously wouldn't swap them for anyone in our current setup / 11.

Don't try to predict the future, especially with footballers. You never know, he may decide to leave at the end of the season. You simply don't know what is happening behind the scenes.

 

[TrevorFitzpatrickHattrick]

This is all about the totally unrealistic expectations repeatedly expressed by some Zoners about Bentley and Payne just because they came through our youth system.
Watching the end of Brentford v QPR 2-2 last night on Sky,I straight away saw Daniel fumble a cross and get away with it.In added on time he did the same and this time QPR scored to make it 1-2.They then equalised.
Saturday before last I was in the Cardiff City Stadium,watching his 2nd minute butterfingers lead to the all-important first goal.If you watch the Channel 5 programme,you’ll know he’s been doing this regularly.(Amazingly,Luke Daniels is kept on the bench!).He’s always been very weak on crosses but remains confident and is still very young for a goalkeeper.Nevertheless ,it feels a lot safer with Mark Oxley between the posts.
Remarkably similarly,we’ve just seen Jack Payne play much as you’d expect at this level.He didn’t get taken off,for once,as both their strikers went off injured.Suffice to say,there’s no way in the world I’d swap him for Ryan Leonard(nor Wordsworth for that matter)!

We hold a natural bias towards our youth team products because they provided us with a host of positive memories (Bentley's penalty save in the playoff final for starters), simple as that really. We also have a natural lean because the revenue we give the club as supporters funds the youth system they graduated from.

I'll say that Bentley has a massive amount of upside potential which Brentford saw and paid a decent price for. He's only 24 and has at least 4-6 years before he gets close to his peak. I said at the time that he will play in the Prem and I stand by that assertion.

 

[onceknownasrab]

Furthermore we should be very proud of what the club has produced in Bentley and Payne. A real positive. Ricky Duncan and the crew are doing a sterling job for us and hopefully the conveyor belt will churn out many more in the future.

 

[Stuart W]

This is all about the totally unrealistic expectations repeatedly expressed by some Zoners about Bentley and Payne just because they came through our youth system.
Watching the end of Brentford v QPR 2-2 last night on Sky,I straight away saw Daniel fumble a cross and get away with it.In added on time he did the same and this time QPR scored to make it 1-2.They then equalised.
Saturday before last I was in the Cardiff City Stadium,watching his 2nd minute butterfingers lead to the all-important first goal.If you watch the Channel 5 programme,you’ll know he’s been doing this regularly.(Amazingly,Luke Daniels is kept on the bench!).He’s always been very weak on crosses but remains confident and is still very young for a goalkeeper.Nevertheless ,it feels a lot safer with Mark Oxley between the posts.
Remarkably similarly,we’ve just seen Jack Payne play much as you’d expect at this level.He didn’t get taken off,for once,as both their strikers went off injured.Suffice to say,there’s no way in the world I’d swap him for Ryan Leonard(nor Wordsworth for that matter)!

First of all, there is nothing amazing about Bentley being first choice before Luke Daniels, who has only ever really been a number 2 keeper wherever he has been. Yes, Bentley has made the odd mistake this season, but I think this only makes him remind me even more of Joe Hart. I have always thought that he models himself on Hart, both in mannerisms and general style of keeping, and yet our so-called England number 1 probably has made more howlers in the last 18 months than any other high profile keeper, for Torino, West Ham and England. By definition a goalkeeper's errors are magnified far greater than any outfield player. And yes, Bentley WILL play in the premier league, no question.

On Payne, yes I doubt he will ever grace the premier league, but he looked the most dangerous player on Saturday for Oxford, and compare his assists and goals this season with any of our players.

I suspect a little bunch of sour grapes and deep-rooted envy has prompted this thread, Mr. Zeuss

 

[Firestorm]

Only one of our Youth team graduates has gone on to play for England at Full international level, Peter Taylor

And Kightly was at Spurs as a youth and didn't join us until just before his 17th birthday

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

A mate of mine with West Ham connections says he's on their watch list currently

Yeah, but rigsby said Premier League not Championship bound...

 

[LBBlue]

Only one of our Youth team graduates has gone on to play for England at Full international level, Peter Taylor

And Kightly was at Spurs as a youth and didn't join us until just before his 17th birthday

Peter Taylor also signed as an apprentice professional a few weeks before he was 17 in November 69 from Canvey Island. He made his debut a year later in November 70. The irony was that he had been a youth at and been rejected by both Palace and Spurs. Palace paid us £110k in October 73 and Spurs paid Palace £400k in September 76. Expensive mistakes!