Outdoor smoking

[RHB]

I've given up smoking so this doesn't apply to me, but it does seem as if something which is legal in this country (whether you like it or not) is going to get another hammering or the next few weeks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-33883188

What I do find hypocritical is the amount of tobacco duty collected and where we would find that money if smoking became illegal. Before anyone raises the health cost argument, we collect huge amounts more in duty than it costs to treat smoking related illness.

 

[Jam_Man]

Hate smoking with a passion and banning it inside was the right thing to do.

However I really don't get what grounds they have to ban it outside.

 

[londonblue]

Hate smoking with a passion and banning it inside was the right thing to do.

However I really don't get what grounds they have to ban it outside.

Then read the report. It makes it quite clear. Whether you agree or not is a different matter.

 

[londonblue]

I've given up smoking so this doesn't apply to me, but it does seem as if something which is legal in this country (whether you like it or not) is going to get another hammering or the next few weeks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-33883188

What I do find hypocritical is the amount of tobacco duty collected and where we would find that money if smoking became illegal. Before anyone raises the health cost argument, we collect huge amounts more in duty than it costs to treat smoking related illness.

That depends on which report you look at. Most seem to say that the cost to the NHS is far greater than the tax collected.

 

[Jam_Man]

Then read the report. It makes it quite clear. Whether you agree or not is a different matter.

Wheres the report and whats its main points?

Is it to protect other people or the people who smoke already?

 

[MK Shrimper]

Smoking seen as abnormal is a fine idea....trouble is kids will mimic their parents more than random people in pubs....hence I think if you smoke at home, there's probably a good chance your kids will.

Makes me laugh when women say they smoke to maintain their weight....why is it I still see chubsters pulling on a B&H?

 

[RHB]

That depends on which report you look at. Most seem to say that the cost to the NHS is far greater than the tax collected.

The latest reference I can find from ASH shows that direct NHS costs for smoking related diseases is £2 billion approx. If you double that to allow for other 'soft' costs to society then it is still many billions short of the £12.3 billion collected in 2013. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with your views per se, but if smoking is made illegal then that's a pretty tall order on tax shortfall to be made up.

 

[Jim Levenstein]

I like how it is currently. Keep it as it is.

 

[GBJ]

I can understand restaurants, Totally. I wouldn't smoke in/at a restaurant, regardless. But pub gardens? **** off

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

]The latest reference I can find from ASH[/B] shows that direct NHS costs for smoking related diseases is £2 billion approx. If you double that to allow for other 'soft' costs to society then it is still many billions short of the £12.3 billion collected in 2013. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with your views per se, but if smoking is made illegal then that's a pretty tall order on tax shortfall to be made up.

That'll be unbiased then.

 

[GBJ]

Actually, come to think about it, that report is totally bonkers. So, they propose to ban smoking in areas where children can openly witness it, and therefore be encouraged to copy it? Ok. Lets think about it....

Children don't have a divine right to be in a pub. A lot of pubs these days have relaxed their rules, to allow children, & therefore families, to come in and spend money. But the main focus of every pub is selling alcohol. Take away your smokers, & the pub's custom & profits will nosedive, more so, than if they removed families. If push came to shove, then the children would be banned before smoking.

Secondly, sticking with the idea that a child's innocence should be protected from the evil sight of a person smoking, why stop there? Why not ban pubs altogether. If, as this report claims, a child is susceptible to witnessing a person smoking in a pub, and copying it, surely seeing adults consume alcohol, would have the same effect? And should therefore be banned aswell? I mean, A kid mustn't see someone having a fag, but downing pints/shorts/wine etc is fully acceptable? You can apply that to being in your own home aswell, actually.

And why stop there. What about bookies aswell? We all know the dangers of gambling? If a shiny pack of cigarettes can be attractive & intriguing for children, (as we've recently seen the ban on shiny cigarette packets, for this very reason), Surely those brightly lit, colourful shops in the high streets, with big football displays in the window, are also enticing to children?

And what about fast food restaurants? McDonald's, Burger King etc are clearly helping towards this countries obesity problems, so shouldn't children be protected from that aswell?

Or maybe it should come down to effective parenting. How's about teaching your children the ins and outs, and giving them the correct tools to make up their own minds. Instead of trying to shield them from something, they will eventually, inevitably encounter, and know only as taboo.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Or maybe it should come down to effective parenting. How's about teaching your children the ins and outs, and giving them the correct tools to make up their own minds. Instead of trying to shield them from something, they will eventually, inevitably encounter, and know only as taboo.

You can tell your kids until your blue in the face that smoking is a terrible idea - it steals your money and your health but still I see 16yr olds (and younger) taking up the habit, possibly as they think it makes them look older, and therefore "cool". The same goes with drinking.

I started lateish (18/19), probably as I became addicted to nicotene after mixing it with cannabis (never smoked before I discovered that), so GBJ why did you start?

 

[GBJ]

You can tell your kids until your blue in the face that smoking is a terrible idea - it steals your money and your health but still I see 16yr olds (and younger) taking up the habit, possibly as they think it makes them look older, and therefore "cool". The same goes with drinking.

I started lateish (18/19), probably as I became addicted to nicotene after mixing it with cannabis (never smoked before I discovered that), so GBJ why did you start?

At the end of the day, kids (and adults alike) are always going to do what they want to do. It's human nature to explore & experiment with new things. I'm saying teaching them about it, is surely better than trying to hide them from it?

I genuinely find your stance quite odd mate, seeing as you've always been an advocate for legalised drugs? Surely that is far worse than smoking? The points you mentioned about fags draining your money & health is also, absolutely no different to using drugs, no?

I started fully, probably around the same time. I can't give you an exact reason, other than it went hand in hand with a pint. At first it gave me a little buzz, (but that could have actually been a placebo effect for all I know, as I would have already been drunk) and a few of my mates also smoked, so it was easy to ponce one here and there. Nowadays, I smoke because I genuinely enjoy it.

What I can say, without doubt, as a child, I never saw people smoking/drinking etc and thought to myself "I must try that".

 

[MK Shrimper]

At the end of the day, kids (and adults alike) are always going to do what they want to do. It's human nature to explore & experiment with new things. I'm saying teaching them about it, is surely better than trying to hide them from it?

I genuinely find your stance quite odd mate, seeing as you've always been an advocate for legalised drugs? Surely that is far worse than smoking? The points you mentioned about fags draining your money & health is also, absolutely no different to using drugs, no?

I started fully, probably around the same time. I can't give you an exact reason, other than it went hand in hand with a pint. At first it gave me a little buzz, (but that could have actually been a placebo effect for all I know, as I would have already been drunk) and a few of my mates also smoked, so it was easy to ponce one here and there. Nowadays, I smoke because I genuinely enjoy it.

I argue about the legalisation of drugs on the basis that they generally do much less harm to the individual & society than the legal ones, and hence the billions spent worldwide trying to stop them is utterly futile and hypocrisy.

I have no issue with people smoking - just don't do it around me & mine thankyou.

 

[GBJ]

I argue about the legalisation of drugs on the basis that they generally do much less harm to the individual & society than the legal ones, and hence the billions spent worldwide trying to stop them is utterly futile and hypocrisy.

I have no issue with people smoking - just don't do it around me & mine thankyou.

You've often said things like weed should be legal. Yet you're saying smoking cigarettes is terrible, because it steals your money & health. Is there a difference between the two? How does weed "generally do less harm to an individual", than smoking for example, when the two are almost mutually exclusive?

As a considerate smoker, I would never knowingly smoke in or around someone else's close proximity. That being said, a pub garden I.e. The open air, is a fair place to smoke. If families with small children took offence to the sight of me smoking, then I suggest it's them who should relocate. Preferably to a more suitable place for children, where alcohol consumption & smoking doesn't happen. Like a playground for example, not a pub's beer garden

 

[Jam_Man]

Problem is many pubs arent meant to be child free these days and make their money from family meals etc. like the Saxon King etc which is more restaurant than pub

 

[GBJ]

Problem is many pubs arent meant to be child free these days and make their money from family meals etc. like the Saxon King etc which is more restaurant than pub

Of course, it's the same round Grays, a lot of pubs serve food & try to cater for families. But whilst a pub is still labelled as a "pub", it should predominantly be treated as such. And that has to include everything that goes with it. Fighting, swearing, drunkedness, inappropriate behaviour & smoking, are all part and parcel of most pubs, up and down the country. If families are willing to take their kids there, then they should be aware that this kind of thing happens, (I'd be surprised if there was actually a family somewhere who were THAT green, they didn't know these type of things happened in pubs, anyway). If they still CHOOSE to go there, then that's upto them? Why should the pub have to change?

I look at it from my own point of view. If I wanted to take my family out for a meal, do I take them to one of the locals around here? **** no, we'd be going to an actual restaurant, like Harvester, TGI's, M&C etc etc.

 

[MK Shrimper]

You've often said things like weed should be legal. Yet you're saying smoking cigarettes is terrible, because it steals your money & health. Is there a difference between the two? How does weed "generally do less harm to an individual", than smoking for example, when the two are almost mutually exclusive?

Not necessarily, weed can be eaten but on the whole I agree, hence why I got the smoking habit. But what I argue is that the absolute billions that is spent on criminalising one naturally growing weed while allowing another naturally growing weed in insane.

 

[MK Shrimper]

But whilst a pub is still labelled as a "pub", it should predominantly be treated as such. And that has to include everything that goes with it. Fighting, swearing, drunkedness, inappropriate behaviour & smoking, are all part and parcel of most pubs, up and down the country.

Er, no to the bold bits in whatever pub anywhere in the country.

 

[Jam_Man]

Of course, it's the same round Grays, a lot of pubs serve food & try to cater for families. But whilst a pub is still labelled as a "pub", it should predominantly be treated as such. And that has to include everything that goes with it. Fighting, swearing, drunkedness, inappropriate behaviour & smoking, are all part and parcel of most pubs, up and down the country. If families are willing to take their kids there, then they should be aware that this kind of thing happens, (I'd be surprised if there was actually a family somewhere who were THAT green, they didn't know these type of things happened in pubs, anyway). If they still CHOOSE to go there, then that's upto them? Why should the pub have to change?

I look at it from my own point of view. If I wanted to take my family out for a meal, do I take them to one of the locals around here? **** no, we'd be going to an actual restaurant, like Harvester, TGI's, M&C etc etc.

Some pubs server a different role to the old days,but pubs like the Saxon king are not designed for what you have listed, their main income is from meals.

If Fighting/Swearing/Inappropriate behaviour were allowed to be the norm they would go out of business, its not what they are there for.

IF its a pub with no restaurant facility thats different, but many cater for families and base their business model on it and those ones have to provide a family environment.

That said I still dont see why having a smoking area outside one of these is a problem.