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LennySUFC

Director⭐
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
3,284
Location
Hockley
Having been appointed on the 25th March 2013, Brown is essentially two years into the job (a few hours difference!)

So the big questions are
- have we moved forward as a club under brown
- have we achieved what you expected under brown?
- would you want brown to continue as manager following this season?

Any other points feel free to add. Would be good to see people's opinions on Browns two years in charge
 
No - gone sideways IMO. Bringing youth through has been the only improvement.

Yes - expected play-offs and got that last season and look to get that this season.

No - rather go for someone else.
 
have we moved forward as a club under brown

Marginally, despite our poor form I'd be suprised if we don't make the play offs for the second year running, which is an improvement on the squad we had when Brown took over (although I still think it was unfair Sturrock wasn't given another year to turn things back around).

have we achieved what you expected under brown?

I expected play-offs at the start of the season so yes, having said that given how with a bit of consistency we'd be top 3 it's hard to not be disappointed.

would you want brown to continue as manager following this season?

Yes, there's a lot of frustration on SZ but if I put myself in the shoes of a fan of one of the other 23 clubs in the league I can't help but feel I would view Southend as a joke for sacking a manager that has made the play offs in two consecutive years, only if we have a complete meltdown and finish 8th or below should Brown leave.
 
* PB makes himself a cup of tea and switches on his PC and thinks *

Let's see what all the guys are saying down on the Zone. Haven't logged on for a few weeks, but we are sitting well for the play-offs and decent crowds still attending, so should all be good news. OK where to start.

"Next 4 Games" .. Ah this will be all about me and how the guys know I'm doing the right thing and timing the run-in perfectly ... "Boring, sideways, dull ...tango (what's that mean)" .. Nope lets try another thread.

"Promotion" .. Hold on, what's this "Useless orange negative ****" boody hellfire, this can't be right

"Brown" .. This will be the one with the lads who are backing me ... "New manager ... Martin Allen, Di Canio (don't make me laugh) .. Hope Powell, who's he!!"

"2 Year Anniversary" .. Finally something celebrating my success here ... "8th place ... should be sacked" .

Right, where's my mobile, Better get on to the guys at Sky. See if they want a pundit for next season!!
 
Have we moved forward? It’s marginal if we have, you can argue PB has made the playoffs (probably) in both his full seasons whereas Sturrock managed once in his 3 seasons. Then some will argue the seasons can’t be compared due to a 1[SUP]st[/SUP] season building a whole new squad and injuries in the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] season. My opinion is we have improved marginally, I don’t think anyone can really put across a strong case for significant improvement or deterioration.

Have we achieved what I expected? Too early to say, I expected promotion in 2 full seasons, it is still possible.

Brown next season? If we go up, certainly. If not I’d say one more season, I agree with Southend kid that sacking a manager who has reached the playoffs twice is a bit farcical. I’ve been supportive of Brown but if we are in league 2 next season I will expect more and be more vocally critical if we don’t look like achieving it.
 
We haven't progressed under Brown. The reason we are not in the automatic promotion places is: a) he has played too many midfield players who don't score goals. Take a look at the career records of Atkinson, Timlin, Hurst and Worrell. b) it is incredible that not one goal has been scored all season by a centre back, must be a club record! Brown has failed to address these obvious shortcomings. Hopefully we can still get through the play offs but I don't feel confident.
 
In terms of the playing outcome I'd say we've hardly progressed but as a club, that is difficult to determine, only those directly at the top can see if the club as a whole has progressed.

The least I expected was the play offs so for me, were on target.

If we drop out of the play offs he should go but win or lose in those, he should stay for another year.

The squad is very workman like but has little of the quality required to push for the auto's and that is down to money and/or good fortune.
 
Did he ever sign the extention to his contract that he implied was a formality ?
 
  1. Could argue for both yes and no but going to ultimately say no. I don't care if we finish 4th every season, if we don't go up then that's all I really care about at the end of the day. I'll say fair play to Brown for "trying*" to get us playing the right way and we are a tough opposition for any team in this league as we are very good defensively, but I just feel that the team is just going sideways now rather than forwards. We either need a change, or he needs to change, which I can't see happening.
  2. No. I actually thought he would struggle massively. He's actually done better than I thought he would which again I'll say fair play to. Last season around the Chesterfield at home period, I was genuinely excited about the squad and what we could go on to achieve. Shame that didn't last.
  3. If we go up, he deserves another year. If we don't, he should go.

*I say trying to play the correct way, but unfortunately we either don't have the players for it or it's being coached wrong.
 
Rarely comment but 3 good questions;
- have we moved forward as a club under brown? Off the pitch yes, on the pitch no.
Progress with upgraded training facilities, the dome(if it ever comes) signs of an U21 team next season and only 1 winding up order!
However with a much bigger squad, bigger backroom staff, financial backing. better resources in every aspect, not having to start from scratch (like Sturrock) he hasn't achieved anything better. The football is still mundane the majority of the time, the quality needed to go up is missing and we still look no closer to gaining promotion as we did when Sturrock was sacked IMO.

- have we achieved what you expected under brown?
I expected promotion within 2 seasons, so time will tell.

- would you want brown to continue as manager following this season?
As many I would also say goodbye if we failed to win promotion this season.
If we're promoted it would be harsh to not renew his contract, but if I'm honest I wouldn't be overly bothered. Have little confidence in him, only reason I see for keeping him is I don't see any realistic alternative and he hasn't done anything too wrong (or right)
 
No improvement whatsoever.

Under Sturrock we were great away but it was the dull playing 1 up front defensive games at Roots Hall that cost Sturrock his job . Brown has moulded his team is a remarkably similar way . In any job , surely you would ensure you dont make exactly the same mistakes as the bloke who was sacked before you .

Browns budget , i would hazard a guess , is about double what Sturrock used. ( More coaches, about 10 more players, Bolgers transfer fee etc )

We dont even have a guaranteed Wembley cup final to look forward to .....
 
To me a lot of teams in this league are on a par. To have 3 or 4 teams do better than us across a season is not a crime. That's pretty decent going. To many fans are quick to highlight the negatives and not focus on the positives and the wins that Brown has orchestrated.

People need to be careful for what they wish for. No one will come in and make us go a season undefeated. Losses happen. Some of our fan base don't recognise that. It's League 2 football - it's hard to get out of... We are talking minimal things across a season that make a difference. There will be games where tactics are wrong and subs are wrong but we never know that without hindsight. Margins are so small here... a Freddy Eastwood back in his pomp and we would smash the league.... those misses in front of goal are the things that have made most difference not the Brown tactics. Yes, we may have won by more goals etc but his tactics rarely cost us games IMO albeit Burton away - Brown held his hands up. Fair play.

We all have different opinions. Mine is that we stick with Brown.
 
Exactly this! He has had enough money to get players and staff he wants. Anything other than promotion it's the sack for Brown.

I am not strongly opinionated either way.... but a new manager comes in and inherits a big squad on big wages. All of Brown's players. What budget will he have to make the squad his own? Who could come in and rejuvenate the current crop of players or find new tactics that suit us better? What manager would be available that would actually want to come to Southend that is better than Brown?

Do you think that going with another option in our current state would set us back quite a bit? Would you have Tilson back? Not the best tactician but a great man-manager - very focused on bringing a bond within the team.... But, was it him that took us up the leagues or was it some great players that went onto bigger and better things - Gower, Eastwood etc?

Age old argument... it is hard to tell. One thing for sure is that currently the way the football world thinks is that change at the earliest sign of a bad run is the way to go. It's not always the best nor is it the cheapest option. I know it is different if a contract is up but just thinking generally now.
 
Have we gone backwards NO
have we gone forwards places no points yes
Has he improved the squad with
 
sorry I hit the wrong button
Has he improved the squad with Bolger no
but with piggot yes
should he stay for another season
Thats a hard one to call
But maybe yes because chopping and changing wont help .
 
have we moved forward as a club under brown?

Not that I've noticed...........have we really got a better squad than last year?

have we achieved what you expected under brown?

Depends what you expected..........with the conditions (off the field) and the backing, I'm expecting promotion, so the question can't really be answered yet.

would you want brown to continue as manager following this season?

If he gets us promoted, then the answer must be yes. If he fails, then I'd want a change. I honestly see nothing to make me believe that we will do a lot better under him next season. Paul Sturrock said that League Two is a difficult one to get out of and you need a bit of nous.............not convinced that Phil Brown has it.
 
The key players in the team are still mostly Luggys signings- Corr, Timlin, Leonard, Prosser. Only Coker really of his permanent signings stands out as someone who you would be dying to keep at the club, maybe Worrall too.
 
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