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Napster

The Horse with no Name⭐
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,192
Location
The wilds of Kent
As of last night and based on Peter Mile's working out

The top ten records are:

Southend United Managers

League games only, until the end of the 2011/12 campaign. Points changed to three for a win under Dave Smith’s reign in 1982/83. Ratio is calculated as number of points accummulated against the number available* NB Sturrock hasn't been changed for season 12/13 so will need editing.

P W D L PTS Ratio
1 STEVE THOMPSON 14 8 2 4 26 64.3%
2 BARRY FRY 27 14 5 8 47 61.1%
3 DAVID WEBB 217 97 48 72 324 55.8%
4 DAVE SMITH 322 132 90 100 387 54.9%
5 BOB JACK 122 53 27 42 133 54.5%
6 EDDIE PERRY 155 64 34 59 162 52.9%
7 ERNIE SHEPHERD 119 46 32 41 124 52.1%
8 HARRY WARREN 444 174 115 155 463 52.1%
9 PAUL STURROCK* 96 41 25 30 148 51.3%
10 NED LIDDELL 42 13 17 12 43 51.2%

In contrast, Phils record is

Games: 104, won: 44, drawn 33, lost 27: a points accrued total of 165 out of a possible 312, a ratio of 52.9%, which puts him equal 6th.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

LägerBomb

Coach
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
805
Location
Brighton via L-o-S
I think we've played some very average teams under Brown and he's had a lot of resources. That's not to do down his achievement, only that it's really on par with expectation.

League 1 will be the making of him at the club. I hope he continues in this vein.
 

Fish

Manager
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
1,414
Location
Witham
As of last night and based on Peter Mile's working out

The top ten records are:

Southend United Managers

League games only, until the end of the 2011/12 campaign. Points changed to three for a win under Dave Smith’s reign in 1982/83. Ratio is calculated as number of points accummulated against the number available* NB Sturrock hasn't been changed for season 12/13 so will need editing.

P W D L PTS Ratio
1 STEVE THOMPSON 14 8 2 4 26 64.3%
2 BARRY FRY 27 14 5 8 47 61.1%
3 DAVID WEBB 217 97 48 72 324 55.8%
4 DAVE SMITH 322 132 90 100 387 54.9%
5 BOB JACK 122 53 27 42 133 54.5%
6 EDDIE PERRY 155 64 34 59 162 52.9%
7 ERNIE SHEPHERD 119 46 32 41 124 52.1%
8 HARRY WARREN 444 174 115 155 463 52.1%
9 PAUL STURROCK* 96 41 25 30 148 51.3%
10 NED LIDDELL 42 13 17 12 43 51.2%

In contrast, Phils record is

Games: 104, won: 44, drawn 33, lost 27: a points accrued total of 165 out of a possible 312, a ratio of 52.9%, which puts him equal 6th.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
That skews the comparison. managers who got draws under the old 2 points for a win system get a higher pecentage of available poitns for a draw than managers under the 3 points for a win system.

To get a really fair comparison, you either compare the ratio of wins/draws and losses to total games, or re-calculate the points for seasons prior to 1982/3 to include 3 points for a win. I reckoin that would put Phil Brown 5th out on his own, and possibly close to Dave Smith in 4th.
 

Napster

The Horse with no Name⭐
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,192
Location
The wilds of Kent
That skews the comparison. managers who got draws under the old 2 points for a win system get a higher pecentage of available poitns for a draw than managers under the 3 points for a win system.

To get a really fair comparison, you either compare the ratio of wins/draws and losses to total games, or re-calculate the points for seasons prior to 1982/3 to include 3 points for a win. I reckoin that would put Phil Brown 5th out on his own, and possibly close to Dave Smith in 4th.

I understood it as all the years prior to 82/3 were re-calibrated for 3 points for a win.
 

Fish

Manager
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
1,414
Location
Witham
I understood it as all the years prior to 82/3 were re-calibrated for 3 points for a win.
Re-reading the OP it looks like they could have done for Dave Smith but not for any others. Either way it's not clear. Bob Jack may slip down to make way for PB.
 

NZamba Legend

Deep-lying playmaker ⭐
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
4,806
Location
Le Mellotron
The stats are misleading though. You wouldn't really say that Sturrock, Brown or Thompson were more successful than Steve Tilson.
 

mrsblue

Banned
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
9,419
Phil's win ratio and promotion are decent BUT the football in the main has been underwhelming and downright dull IMO.

It is what it is,I suppose.
 

Fish

Manager
Joined
May 14, 2005
Messages
1,414
Location
Witham
The stats are misleading though. You wouldn't really say that Sturrock, Brown or Thompson were more successful than Steve Tilson.
Depends how you measure success. "Percentage of available points won" is easily available but fairly crude. By that measure, Sturrock was more successful in his final full season when we failed in the League 2 play-offs than Tilly was when we won the League 1 Championship.

But when you look at the constraints Luggy was under transfer wise (problems which Tilly only had to deal with in his latter seasons to that same extent), then you have to say history might suggest Luggy did better with what he had available by comparison - because when we went up (via the playoffs) with Tilly from League 2, the financial constraints were not as exacting as they were for Luggy.
 

Tampa Blue

Director⭐
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
3,177
Location
Burnham-on-Crouch
"There are lies, damned lies and statistics." - said Mark Twain.

Interesting statistics, but do they take in to account the Divisions that we were playing in at the time which would provide an example of the quality of opposition?

Based on the stats provided however, it tends to reinforce the opinion that PB is neither terrible nor great at this stage.

As someone else said, this season will be a defining season for him and I hope that at the end of it we are saying that he is edging towards great!
 

Up the Shrimpers

Life President
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
8,089
"There are lies, damned lies and statistics." - said Mark Twain.

Interesting statistics, but do they take in to account the Divisions that we were playing in at the time which would provide an example of the quality of opposition?

Based on the stats provided however, it tends to reinforce the opinion that PB is neither terrible nor great at this stage.

As someone else said, this season will be a defining season for him and I hope that at the end of it we are saying that he is edging towards great!

Well Bob Jack and I think Ned Liddel were managers when we were non-league, probably Southern League?
Not saying they shouldn't be included but as you say the quality of the opposition was bound to be lower.
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
17,112
This is what it looks like with 3 points for a win all round: I've left the numbers on the left the same so you can see the movement. The biggest winner is PS...

PWDLPTSPTS AvRatio
1STEVE THOMPSON14824264261.90
2BARRY FRY271458478158.02
3DAVID WEBB21797487233965152.07
9PAUL STURROCK*9641253014828851.39
5BOB JACK12253274218636650.82
4DAVE SMITH3221329010048696650.31
6EDDIE PERRY15564345922646548.60
8HARRY WARREN444174115155637133247.82
7ERNIE SHEPHERD11946324117035747.62
10NED LIDDELL421317125612644.44
 

Lord Football

Blues on Tour
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
3,567
Location
Sunny Southend on Sea
Well Bob Jack and I think Ned Liddel were managers when we were non-league, probably Southern League?
Not saying they shouldn't be included but as you say the quality of the opposition was bound to be lower.

Well not necessarily. The Southern League pre 1920 was pretty much the third tier of English Football, so on that basis, better than where we were last year.
 

spoons

Manager
Joined
Sep 6, 2009
Messages
2,135
Location
North Wales
Phil's win ratio and promotion are decent BUT the football in the main has been underwhelming and downright dull IMO.

It is what it is,I suppose.
No way was it underwhelming last night, nor at Doncaster either. I am not a Brown fan but he has improved the squad this season and last night we looked like a team coming together well and playing good controlled football.
Give the man time and I think he could do well for us.:happy:
 

londonblue

Topgun Pilot
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
17,112
No way was it underwhelming last night, nor at Doncaster either. I am not a Brown fan but he has improved the squad this season and last night we looked like a team coming together well and playing good controlled football.
Give the man time and I think he could do well for us.:happy:

He already has.
 

WESTY_SUFC

Guest
Depends how you measure success. "Percentage of available points won" is easily available but fairly crude. By that measure, Sturrock was more successful in his final full season when we failed in the League 2 play-offs than Tilly was when we won the League 1 Championship.

But when you look at the constraints Luggy was under transfer wise (problems which Tilly only had to deal with in his latter seasons to that same extent), then you have to say history might suggest Luggy did better with what he had available by comparison - because when we went up (via the playoffs) with Tilly from League 2, the financial constraints were not as exacting as they were for Luggy.

Sturrocks wage bill was massive in comparison to Tilsons lg2 promotion season. That's a huge advantage not a constraint.
 

mattitouk

Life President
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
6,469
Location
RTW
Agreed, I think Phil Brown is as good as Paul Sturrock (or perhaps / hopefully even better).

Can we discuss this and judge him over the 161 games that Sturrock managed for Southend, and then judge him then on a win ratio. There is to many stats that prove otherwise in each favour.
 

WESTY_SUFC

Guest
Agreed, I think Phil Brown is as good as Paul Sturrock (or perhaps / hopefully even better).

Can we discuss this and judge him over the 161 games that Sturrock managed for Southend, and then judge him then on a win ratio. There is to many stats that prove otherwise in each favour.

He's already achieved more than Sturrock. Phil Brown has got us promoted, Sturrock didn't.
 
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