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DTS

The Business
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
16,173
Location
In a world of my own.
I want to go on record and say I love Tilly and would never want him to go.
But the complete inability to sign anyone is now becoming a real bug bear for me personally.

Even the crapper clubs below us are getting decent people and we seem to be chasing Ronaldo and Kaka who clearly arent going to come to the club.

I do understand that its not easy and we have had some bad luck (Elliot not wanting to move south and Walkers health) but the buck stop with Tilly and we have now had 23 days in January when we have clearly needed a striker (Amongst other positions) but have signed no-one bar a non league player for the future.

Its not like we haven't needed a striker for over a year anyway. On top of this were shipping goals at a worrying rate and I really feel its time we stopped making excuses and got someone. Easy to say I know.

However if you looking for realisitc signings then the following players have all moved of late and to clubs not bigger than us. Other managers dont seem to find it so hard....

DEF:

ROB PAGE - HUDDERSFIELD
MATT MILLS - DONCASTER

MID:

ANTHONY MCNAMEE - YEOVIL
GARY SMITH - CARLISLE
AHMET BRKOVIC - MILLWALL

ATT:

MOSES ASHIKODI - SWINDON
FABIAN BRAND - SWANSEA
ANDY KIRK - YEOVIL
TOBY MIKALESLSON - PORT VALE
STEVE BROOKER - CHELTENHAM
LEE HOLMES - WALSALL
SCOTT SPENCER - YEOVIL.

Any of the above could have done a good job for us and all have moved to clubs of similar stature to us (Bar maybe Brandy).

I am in full support of Tilly but its time to stop making excuses and get someone in my book before this season falls into obscurity.
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
19,752
Location
G69
I can understand your frustration DtS, but in all honesty I'd only have felt we'd done well if we had of signed 4 maybe 5 if I'm generous of the players on your list.

Remember, we were unlucky with the Walker transfer, he could have done us well (having seen a montage of his goals for Yeovil). That surely suggests we're not simply inactive in the transfer market, as does the aborted attempt to get Fallon in. Don't forget as well, there are all manner of external factors to take into consideration, agents and their influence, our geographic location, wages offered as part of a fairly rigid structure, the fact that from the outside in we maybe look like a club who's recent bubble of success has burst. Need I go on?
 

DTS

The Business
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
16,173
Location
In a world of my own.
I can understand your frustration DtS, but in all honesty I'd only have felt we'd done well if we had of signed 4 maybe 5 if I'm generous of the players on your list.

Remember, we were unlucky with the Walker transfer, he could have done us well (having seen a montage of his goals for Yeovil). That surely suggests we're not simply inactive in the transfer market, as does the aborted attempt to get Fallon in. Don't forget as well, there are all manner of external factors to take into consideration, agents and their influence, our geographic location, wages offered as part of a fairly rigid structure, the fact that from the outside in we maybe look like a club who's recent bubble of success has burst. Need I go on?

I understand we dont know what goes on behnd the scenes and I really do believe whole heartidly Ron & Tilly are doing there best and I am sure they are trying.

However they have not signed anyone of note in the window and infact excluding Nicky Bailey we didnt really sign anyone that has really taken the squad forward in the pre-seaon on a permanent deal either.

We are now stuck as a proffesional football club trying to get promoted to the 4th richest league in Europe with the following: one fit striker who is 20, one non-league striker who is trying to prove himself in the game, a Irish forward who likes a drink and is out on loan and a target man with a poor track record who has not scored in 45 odd league games now.Tommy Black has done well upfront but is not a solution.

We had a better attack in league 2 the year we nearly got relegated.

My list was just a snap shot but any of those strikers would have been a vast improvement to my untrained eye on our current predicament.

I can understand all the factors above but I really feel deep down there seems to be an issue with us being able to make signings.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
1,761
Location
i live in westcliff
yer we were unlucky with walker, but surely he wasnt even a striker we were looking at and was only a panic buy in the first place. Stop passing the buck all the time it is our whole managment teams falt and I for one am gettting pretty feking cheesed off about it
 

Hawkwell Blue

Manager
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
1,877
I want to go on record and say I love Tilly and would never want him to go.
But the complete inability to sign anyone is now becoming a real bug bear for me personally.

Even the crapper clubs below us are getting decent people and we seem to be chasing Ronaldo and Kaka who clearly arent going to come to the club.

I do understand that its not easy and we have had some bad luck (Elliot not wanting to move south and Walkers health) but the buck stop with Tilly and we have now had 23 days in January when we have clearly needed a striker (Amongst other positions) but have signed no-one bar a non league player for the future.

Its not like we haven't needed a striker for over a year anyway. On top of this were shipping goals at a worrying rate and I really feel its time we stopped making excuses and got someone. Easy to say I know.

However if you looking for realisitc signings then the following players have all moved of late and to clubs not bigger than us. Other managers dont seem to find it so hard....

DEF:

ROB PAGE - HUDDERSFIELD
MATT MILLS - DONCASTER

MID:

ANTHONY MCNAMEE - YEOVIL
GARY SMITH - CARLISLE
AHMET BRKOVIC - MILLWALL

ATT:

MOSES ASHIKODI - SWINDON
FABIAN BRAND - SWANSEA
ANDY KIRK - YEOVIL
TOBY MIKALESLSON - PORT VALE
STEVE BROOKER - CHELTENHAM
LEE HOLMES - WALSALL
SCOTT SPENCER - YEOVIL.

Any of the above could have done a good job for us and all have moved to clubs of similar stature to us (Bar maybe Brandy).

I am in full support of Tilly but its time to stop making excuses and get someone in my book before this season falls into obscurity.

With the possible exception of Andy Kirk, Steve Brooker and Ahmet Brkovic can you imagine our fan's reactions to the above - a resounding WHO?
 

DTS

The Business
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
16,173
Location
In a world of my own.
With the possible exception of Andy Kirk, Steve Brooker and Ahmet Brkovic can you imagine our fan's reactions to the above - a resounding WHO?

I see what you saying but any of the above are either proven quaility players all be it a few years ago or up and coming players trying to get match experience.
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
19,752
Location
G69
With the possible exception of Andy Kirk, Steve Brooker and Ahmet Brkovic can you imagine our fan's reactions to the above - a resounding WHO?

Robert Page is the big miss from that list as far as I'm concerned. Somebody who could have finally replaced the qualities & experience we've been lacking since the departures of Spinner & Sodje!
 

Richard_Cadette

The Realist
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Eastwood, Leigh-on-Sea
I want to go on record and say I love Tilly and would never want him to go.
But the complete inability to sign anyone is now becoming a real bug bear for me personally.

Even the crapper clubs below us are getting decent people and we seem to be chasing Ronaldo and Kaka who clearly arent going to come to the club.

I do understand that its not easy and we have had some bad luck (Elliot not wanting to move south and Walkers health) but the buck stop with Tilly and we have now had 23 days in January when we have clearly needed a striker (Amongst other positions) but have signed no-one bar a non league player for the future.

Its not like we haven't needed a striker for over a year anyway. On top of this were shipping goals at a worrying rate and I really feel its time we stopped making excuses and got someone. Easy to say I know.

However if you looking for realisitc signings then the following players have all moved of late and to clubs not bigger than us. Other managers dont seem to find it so hard....

DEF:

ROB PAGE - HUDDERSFIELD
MATT MILLS - DONCASTER

MID:

ANTHONY MCNAMEE - YEOVIL
GARY SMITH - CARLISLE
AHMET BRKOVIC - MILLWALL

ATT:

MOSES ASHIKODI - SWINDON
FABIAN BRAND - SWANSEA
ANDY KIRK - YEOVIL
TOBY MIKALESLSON - PORT VALE
STEVE BROOKER - CHELTENHAM
LEE HOLMES - WALSALL
SCOTT SPENCER - YEOVIL.

Any of the above could have done a good job for us and all have moved to clubs of similar stature to us (Bar maybe Brandy).

I am in full support of Tilly but its time to stop making excuses and get someone in my book before this season falls into obscurity.

Very good post DtS.... Let me say now, that if I do get the top job at Roots Hall, you can definately be MY assistant :)

It is getting to the point now where I hate tranfer windows because I get optimistic that we will sign a couple of players who can make a real difference to our season, and then end up getting to this point in the month, when frustration and annoyance take over, with the realisation that we aren't going to do any meaningful business, or at least not until the end of the month!

The problem is that we have wasted 23 days of this month already, and during those 23 days, we have played a number of important matches. People often say on here, well we're not at the end of the month yet, so still time to sign someone etc etc, but as I said, the problem is the longer you leave it, the more games you play with an under performing squad of players.

I think you're being generous saying we have been unlucky with our potential signings - have we really? The Walker situation could have been avoided had somebody, somewhere, done their homework properlu, and as for Stuart Elliott, I fail to believe the only reason he stayed where he was is because of his children - I don't buy it personally, something else we did affected that move, I am sure of it.

None of us know what the policy is when it comes to bringing in players, but it is patently obvious whatever it is, it is not successful. I have never heard a single club say so many times how difficult it is to bring in players - we're not at the foot of League Two for crying out loud, and we're hardly at the end of the Earth - we are less than 40 miles from the Capital of our country, we are 8th in League Two, playing in front of decent attendances with the prospect of a shiny new ground with excellent facilities - how much more attractive does it need to be for a player??

We are now down to 8 days left in this window, a lot of the players who would be good enough for us have already found a club, and you start to get left with the 'dregs', which then results in managers buying players they don't really want, but feel pressurised into doing - This situation needs to be avoided at all costs.

Don't get me wrong, it is not beyond realms of possibility we still may make a couple of decent signings in the next few days, but that isn't the point really is it? The point is most of this month has now gone, we have played numerous games with a poor side which could have been improved, and yet again, fans are having the same conversation - it's not coincidence this keeps happening, more a recurring theme.
 

IloveShrimp

Director⭐
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
2,611
Location
Wickford
Very good post DtS.... Let me say now, that if I do get the top job at Roots Hall, you can definately be MY assistant :)

It is getting to the point now where I hate tranfer windows because I get optimistic that we will sign a couple of players who can make a real difference to our season, and then end up getting to this point in the month, when frustration and annoyance take over, with the realisation that we aren't going to do any meaningful business, or at least not until the end of the month!

The problem is that we have wasted 23 days of this month already, and during those 23 days, we have played a number of important matches. People often say on here, well we're not at the end of the month yet, so still time to sign someone etc etc, but as I said, the problem is the longer you leave it, the more games you play with an under performing squad of players.

I think you're being generous saying we have been unlucky with our potential signings - have we really? The Walker situation could have been avoided had somebody, somewhere, done their homework properlu, and as for Stuart Elliott, I fail to believe the only reason he stayed where he was is because of his children - I don't buy it personally, something else we did affected that move, I am sure of it.

None of us know what the policy is when it comes to bringing in players, but it is patently obvious whatever it is, it is not successful. I have never heard a single club say so many times how difficult it is to bring in players - we're not at the foot of League Two for crying out loud, and we're hardly at the end of the Earth - we are less than 40 miles from the Capital of our country, we are 8th in League Two, playing in front of decent attendances with the prospect of a shiny new ground with excellent facilities - how much more attractive does it need to be for a player??

We are now down to 8 days left in this window, a lot of the players who would be good enough for us have already found a club, and you start to get left with the 'dregs', which then results in managers buying players they don't really want, but feel pressurised into doing - This situation needs to be avoided at all costs.

Don't get me wrong, it is not beyond realms of possibility we still may make a couple of decent signings in the next few days, but that isn't the point really is it? The point is most of this month has now gone, we have played numerous games with a poor side which could have been improved, and yet again, fans are having the same conversation - it's not coincidence this keeps happening, more a recurring theme.

Good Post depressingly true
 
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
328
Location
Southend
I've said it before and I'll say it again - how easy do you guys think it is to get a player in?

You want an experienced player? That means every single manager has heard of him. If he has a half decent agent, which most of them have, he will be alerting every club that his client is available. Decent CH's and CF's are in much demand so that player will have plenty of options open to him, and will almost certainly keep all his options open until the last minute. Plus you have to contact his club first to agree a price, because if you don't you can find yourself in front of the FA. So negotiations with the club can go on, and may be dependent on that club making a signing of their own. So you're forced to wait. Then you have to go through the rigmarole with the player.

I believe Tilly is looking at numerous players. What do you want him to do? Announce publicly that he's phoned Manager X and that he's been told Player Y is available within our budget? Would that keep you happy? Because that would almost certainly increase interest and force the price up and we'd probably lose out.

So far Tilly has made THREE signings in this window. He's picked up Scannell for a song, signed Bernard and also Walker. How anyone can honestly expect the club to have known that a young lad like him had a heart anomoly is beyond me. I doubt the player knew. That's what medicals are for, to find these things out.

And he probably wasn't our only target. But when you think you've signed a player who is going to eat up a large proportion of your budget why would you keep looking? If I'm looking for an assistant and I interview someone and he fits the bill, and we agree on salary and other benefits and he signs an acceptance form, do I keep on interviewing. No, of course not.

Give Tilly a break. All this ridiculous clamour does is to push the club in to making an appeasing signing for the sake of it. "Please Tilly sign someone !!!!!!!!" you say, so I give you another Billy Paynter or Michael Ricketts - happy?
 

DTS

The Business
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
16,173
Location
In a world of my own.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - how easy do you guys think it is to get a player in?

You want an experienced player? That means every single manager has heard of him. If he has a half decent agent, which most of them have, he will be alerting every club that his client is available. Decent CH's and CF's are in much demand so that player will have plenty of options open to him, and will almost certainly keep all his options open until the last minute. Plus you have to contact his club first to agree a price, because if you don't you can find yourself in front of the FA. So negotiations with the club can go on, and may be dependent on that club making a signing of their own. So you're forced to wait. Then you have to go through the rigmarole with the player.

I believe Tilly is looking at numerous players. What do you want him to do? Announce publicly that he's phoned Manager X and that he's been told Player Y is available within our budget? Would that keep you happy? Because that would almost certainly increase interest and force the price up and we'd probably lose out.

So far Tilly has made THREE signings in this window. He's picked up Scannell for a song, signed Bernard and also Walker. How anyone can honestly expect the club to have known that a young lad like him had a heart anomoly is beyond me. I doubt the player knew. That's what medicals are for, to find these things out.

And he probably wasn't our only target. But when you think you've signed a player who is going to eat up a large proportion of your budget why would you keep looking? If I'm looking for an assistant and I interview someone and he fits the bill, and we agree on salary and other benefits and he signs an acceptance form, do I keep on interviewing. No, of course not.

Give Tilly a break. All this ridiculous clamour does is to push the club in to making an appeasing signing for the sake of it. "Please Tilly sign someone !!!!!!!!" you say, so I give you another Billy Paynter or Michael Ricketts - happy?


So of your three signing Tillys has made - Scannell cost £5k and can only be described as a good prospect, Walker we didnt sign so dosent count and this Bernard fellow you speak off has yet to sign.

I dont think anyone has claimed it would be easy. However it is not rocket science either and we struggle every window and every summer to attract players that can improve the club.

As RC said its not like were rock bottom the table so I cant help but think there must be another reason we are not getting the players in?
 
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
328
Location
Southend
So what if Scanell cost £5K. He's now in our squad. If he'd cost £50K would that make him a better signing?

You're criticising Tilly for not making signings but he's made 3 and has not finished. Walker does count because he was a player we found, negotiated with Charlton for and agreed a contract with. All of which take time. The collapse of the move is not down to Tilly or a lack of effort.
 

Matt the Shrimp

aka Harry Potter
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
19,929
Location
Lewisham, London
As RC said its not like were rock bottom the table so I cant help but think there must be another reason we are not getting the players in?
Because for the period from 1998 - 2005, we were a sh*t club!!!

Is it me, or is everyone suffering from (a) collective amnesia, and (b) an overinflated sense of our own importance.

"Oh, but we were a Championship club last season!"

Well, we were in the Championship last season, but that was down to an extraodinary two seasons built almost entirely on the magic of Freddy and the solidity of Spinner & Sodje. Spinner retired, Efe got bored (as he appears wont to do) and opposition defences double-manned Fred... and we were f***ed.

We're in a far better situation than - after the ravages of Alvin Martin and the slow but steady decline under Little, Newman and Wignall - we have any legitimate right to expect. Our club had 8 consecutive seasons of decline. The damage to our club, and to our reputation, cannot be repaired overnight.

Add to that the fact that, realistically, we still haven't got much cash to spend and we are viewed, perhaps incorrectly, as a little bit of a footballing outpost in the middle of nowhere (no clubs near us, no local derbies, club full of local Essex boys) when in many respects a lot of the better-known lower league footballers and clubs are northern... and suddenly you begin to see a picture coming together of a club which might seem a little unappealing to your average player.

If you asked our current squad, how many of them have aspired at some stage in their careers to play for Southend United... how many of them are going to stick their hand up and say "yes"?

I'd guess at four of the current first team squad - Barrett (local boy), Maher (to prove the boo-boys wrong), Harrold (here as a child, I think), Moussa (a kid developing into a first team player). A further six may have joined simply because of Steve Tilson as a man and because of his achievements as a manager (Bailey, Francis, McCormack, McDonald, Scannell, Liptak).

And the rest are just pros, making a career... and those are the sorts of players whom we're only likely to pick up in the close season, when they're looking for a new deal or they've got nowhere else to go.

Unless you're a local lad - or unless you've met Tilly as part of the U21 set-up - what reason have most footballers got to join Southend United... a mid-table League One side who, it must be said, look highly unlikely to go up this season and who in all honestly overachieved for a couple of years thanks to Freddy & Spinner (but who, prior to that, were actually pretty sh*t for most of the last decade)?

:confused:

Yours, no doubt to be accused of being "rose-tinted" or "having no ambition",

Matt
 

OldBlueLady

Junior Blues Coordinator⭐
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
47,926
Location
Benfleet
Great post Matt. Absolutely to the point, successive seasons of over-achievement on the back of some pretty astute signings opened our eyes to what else is out there and now everyone expects us to be competing on the same playing field. Well, we can't, it's as simple as that. Hopefully, in a few seasons, with a new stadium and extra income generated from what goes along with it, players may actually aspire to come to us. Don't quite understand why we are such an unfashionable club, with the proximity to London I'd have thought we were a more attractive prospect than, say Yeovil, but they seem to be attracting players.
 
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