Politically Motivated Cutting?

[Neil_F]

Councils in Liverpool and Manchester have cut services such as libraries, street cleaning and rubbish collection and blamed funding cuts from central government.

Is this really necessary or are budget restraints being implemented in a politically motivated fashion?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Councils in Liverpool and Manchester have cut services such as libraries, street cleaning and rubbish collection and blamed funding cuts from central government.

Is this really necessary or are budget restraints being implemented in a politically motivated fashion?

What parties control those councils?

 

[canveyshrimper]

IMO some councils are acting in a politically motivated manner in cutting such services. Their defence being blame the nasty Tories in central government. From the outset councils should be looking to cut non jobs, there's armies of diversity coordinators, 5 a day coordinators, the list is endless, cluttering town halls with their huge salaries and index linked pensions. I fail to see what worth these jobs have, apart for the people who are sat on their worthless backsides trousering big money for doing the square root of sod all.

 

[Pubey]

IMO some councils are acting in a politically motivated manner in cutting such services. Their defence being blame the nasty Tories in central government. From the outset councils should be looking to cut non jobs, there's armies of diversity coordinators, 5 a day coordinators, the list is endless, cluttering town halls with their huge salaries and index linked pensions. I fail to see what worth these jobs have, apart for the people who are sat on their worthless backsides trousering big money for doing the square root of sod all.

but these are central policies/schemes that come from the govt and need to be implemented at a local level.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

but these are central policies/schemes that coame from the Labour govt and need to be implemented at a local level.

Corrected.

 

[osymandus]

Actually the council that are not Tory have the highest cuts to their budgets (BBC report a while after the announcement ). And to be honest something like those cut (Libraries espically which they are planning to close everywhere see Phillip Pullmans campaign against it ) are just as ideologically charged . Both sides are idiots , and wants their ideologies over what is practical and should be done to help everyone . Vote for AV reform !!!

 

[Neil_F]

what should be done to help everyone?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Actually the council that are not Tory have the highest cuts to their budgets (BBC report a while after the announcement ). And to be honest something like those cut (Libraries espically which they are planning to close everywhere see Phillip Pullmans campaign against it ) are just as ideologically charged . Both sides are idiots , and wants their ideologies over what is practical and should be done to help everyone . Vote for AV reform !!!

How will AV reform things? Are you suggesting it'll produce coalition governments?

Do you also think that the non-Tory councils might have had the most extra money pushed their way under the non-Tory previous government?

In fact, don't non-Tory councils have the biggest budgets in the first place, meaning that invariably they'll have the biggest cuts.

 

[Pubey]

what should be done to help everyone?

Use in house resources rather than paying out ridiculous amounts to management consultants. This can be applied to the public sector, not just councils. They'd save a fortune and libraries might not need to close.

Shorter term project specific contracts too. Part of my issue with the public sector (I'm kinda including myself in this too working at a uni) is that stupid people get a decent salary and it's hard to get rid of them. These cuts in some sense are a good opportunity to get rid of some deadwood because every organisation has them and they **** me off. We could learn a lot from the private sector in terms of how to get rid of under-performing staff. Does UNISON have any real power these days?

 

[osymandus]

what should be done to help everyone?

More sensible tax system . Cap's on [profit making for essential services (i.e basic human needs). More investment in technologies for efficient electrical products, fuel based systems . Less emphasis on pure profit driven kensiehn style economics . Greater emphasis on individual tutoring from primary education . Deconstruction of social worth ethics based on industrial revolution ideology .

The usual

 

[osymandus]

How will AV reform things? Are you suggesting it'll produce coalition governments?

Do you also think that the non-Tory councils might have had the most extra money pushed their way under the non-Tory previous government?

In fact, don't non-Tory councils have the biggest budgets in the first place, meaning that invariably they'll have the biggest cuts.

Actually no they don;t . In relation to wealthier areas and low tax breaks services available in tradition al Tory areas have higher and better funding (Essex included). As Pubey says its not pure finance (which is the common Tory stick here used) but its effective usage ) . Traditional Labour is giver give give . Tory is run it as a profit making system because that works in the sectors we traditionaly excelled in (i.e buisnes) .
Both are indeed need however why we run essential basic human needs in the same economic models and then 5-10 years down teh road people get screwed over and we get surprised i will never know .

Yes coalition models make far more sense and force a more productive means of working . To defend one method of running a society is short sighted and essential immature . We need multipule sforms that work , and systems that will change as people develope anad grow within it .

While i don;t adviocate soilent green methods sensible ideas liek this maybe http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/09/redditch_crematorium/

 

[Neil_F]

. These cuts in some sense are a good opportunity to get rid of some deadwood because every organisation has them and they **** me off. We could learn a lot from the private sector in terms of how to get rid of under-performing staff. Does UNISON have any real power these days?

Contrast this to my employer who axed 10% of the workforce in 2009, or Pfizer's recent cost-cutting announcement. The reason I suggest there is political motivation is that services such as street cleaning and libraries are being targetted rather than reducing headcount as you very sensibly suggest.

 

[osymandus]

Contrast this to my employer who axed 10% of the workforce in 2009, or Pfizer's recent cost-cutting announcement. The reason I suggest there is political motivation is that services such as street cleaning and libraries are being targetted rather than reducing headcount as you very sensibly suggest.

As a side note your employer , do they take into a account the social impact of their releasing 10% of its work force ?and how it affects the current Chancellors plans of getting people spending again ;). and in the longer term does it really save money or just for short term profits for teh company ?

 

[Neil_F]

More sensible tax system

Is that a tax system that seeks to redistribute wealth, maximise tax yield, impact behaviour (social or economic) or maximise economic performance?

. Cap's on [profit making for essential services (i.e basic human needs).

Which would work how? I presume you would define food as such an essential? If there was no or limited profit motivation is that to apply through the whole supply chain (i.e. farmer to supermarket) or on just part of the chain? Assuming it is all, what would be the motivation to trade food where there was no profit motivation? Capex would fall as the return would be negligible/zero and prices would rise. The government would probably have to provide subsidies in such a circumstance or mandate food production and distribution, for example in rural India, where corruption has led to mass starvation (see human rights council report of 2007). If subsidies were to apply, howwould they be paid for?

More investment in technologies for efficient electrical products, fuel based systems .

This already goes on in the private sector without government intervention. For example, I was reading today about the use of plasmas to breakdown household waste into carbon monoxide and a form of hydrogen that could be used to generate fuel. That scheme has no government funding, so why is any necessary?

Less emphasis on pure profit driven kensiehn style economics

and replace it with what?

. Greater emphasis on individual tutoring from primary education

Not going to disagree with that one

. Deconstruction of social worth ethics based on industrial revolution ideology .

Assuming I even knew what that meant, replace it with what?

 

[Neil_F]

As a side note your employer , do they take into a account the social impact of their releasing 10% of its work force ?and how it affects the current Chancellors plans of getting people spending again ;). and in the longer term does it really save money or just for short term profits for teh company ?

It was 10% globally, and I doubt it was much of a concern. Their obligations are to the shareholders and maximising long-term value. In the short-term it would have depressed profitability and had a negative cashflow impact as a lot of people were paid off on generous terms (most of them early retirement in effect). The medium and long-term effect was as much about changing the nature of the organisation to boost profitability and cashflow over those same periods. There was especially a need to maximise cash in the medium-term for big capex projects.

 

[osymandus]

Is that a tax system that seeks to redistribute wealth, maximise tax yield, impact behaviour (social or economic) or maximise economic performance?



Which would work how? I presume you would define food as such an essential? If there was no or limited profit motivation is that to apply through the whole supply chain (i.e. farmer to supermarket) or on just part of the chain? Assuming it is all, what would be the motivation to trade food where there was no profit motivation? Capex would fall as the return would be negligible/zero and prices would rise. The government would probably have to provide subsidies in such a circumstance or mandate food production and distribution, for example in rural India, where corruption has led to mass starvation (see human rights council report of 2007). If subsidies were to apply, howwould they be paid for?



This already goes on in the private sector without government intervention. For example, I was reading today about the use of plasmas to breakdown household waste into carbon monoxide and a form of hydrogen that could be used to generate fuel. That scheme has no government funding, so why is any necessary?



and replace it with what?



Not going to disagree with that one




Assuming I even knew what that meant, replace it with what?

The problems with your answers to my questions is your basing them on business ideals . What is the point of producing food for anything other then profit ... errr to eat it ? Sensible farming methods enable local people to provide for them-self Excess is what created market economy. Food production forms control teh flow of what people eat in their societies .
Corruption occurs at all levels dosnt mean to say the model itself is corrupt only the people using it (are hammers evil or just murders who use hammers) . Logic is wonderful in figures and boardrooms and labs falls on its arse with human beings. Motivation exists no matter the system not because of it.

Which in turn lead to control by the companies . You also mistaking none private control for automatic government control . Which again seems to miss the idea that either one is automatic authority over the other and both are actually controlled by the people they provide service do (its odd how we complain about governments we vote yet for get we have no actually direct control over companies except stop buying their product). Food and farming production is not inherantly wrong , its monoply and control (an example is there is only 3 chip/fries manufactures in teh whole the USA who export world wide !) is wrong , as are a good many production method's . As you say in your other post the companies are reliant on their sharhodlers to make a profit at all cost yet how many again care their impact they have on the rest of their societies and not the insulated micro economies they may inhabit ?

I know R&D goes in in both government and private sector (and peoples shed's for that matter ) . However as ive said before teh example of Tesla inventions for free and available energy (very possible back in the early 1900's) to JP Morgans safe guarding of profit driven industries/economic models it came down to the ideologies of a few men to decide their self interest came first .

The social model of the industrial revolution was working for life and you are just parts of that machine (which of course runs contrary to an individual educational system as your populace may develop alternate ways and lines to traditional work ideals and models)

 

[osymandus]

Oh and tax . No its to remove the hoarding ability and bottlenecks of the traditional trickle down system of economic, which has stalled . Also the value of products and services , and how the values are attributed . More resources available to all societies at all levels less crime (its impossible to get 0% crime as some people do it for fun of course).

Also remove the fuax Darwinian idea that survival of the fittest actually exists in our work societies , and is represented by some form of mythical all consuming predator ?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The problems with your answers to my questions is your basing them on business ideals . What is the point of producing food for anything other then profit ... errr to eat it ? Sensible farming methods enable local people to provide for them-self

You can **** right off if you're expecting me to grow all my own food.

 

[osymandus]

You can **** right off if you're expecting me to grow all my own food.

Fine pay some one to do it ;) . Never said that needs to disappear ;)

 

[canveyshrimper]

Use in house resources rather than paying out ridiculous amounts to management consultants. This can be applied to the public sector, not just councils. They'd save a fortune and libraries might not need to close.

Shorter term project specific contracts too. Part of my issue with the public sector (I'm kinda including myself in this too working at a uni) is that stupid people get a decent salary and it's hard to get rid of them. These cuts in some sense are a good opportunity to get rid of some deadwood because every organisation has them and they **** me off. We could learn a lot from the private sector in terms of how to get rid of under-performing staff. Does UNISON have any real power these days?

Good post and pretty much what i was referring to, the last Labour Government in its 13 years in power created a whole industry of highly paid non jobs, staffed by people they'd hope would be grateful Labour voters, after all turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

I'm not sure if UNISON has real power, however if you believe a story I saw earlier they have a 30 million quid fighting / strike fund.