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Powell, Brown & Campbell?

There is this weird thing at SUFC ... a strange mentality that sort of prefers failure and low expectation. The hostility to Sol is really really odd - its like listening to Spurs fans.

And the smears and insinuations...

Oh well ... life goes on and at the moment avoiding despair is where I am at

That’s a bit rich considering the amount of insinuations and attacks you’ve launched at Ron over the years.

Did you ever suss out where that £5m went?
 
I count having a go, as taking charge of a team for half of the season.

I’d consider failure to be a losing 70% of those games.

We can debate the circumstances around that, sure, but those are the statistical facts that matter. It’s irrelevant that he brought our goals against ratio down to 2 per game, from 2.7, because essentially, we were still relegated.
It’s literally the same as losing 2-0, and saying at least it wasn’t 3-0. A loss it a loss.



You know what mate, you’re spot on. He has improved us. Under Bond & Waddock, we had a losing percentage of 78%, and under Sol we managed to bring that down to a mere 70%.

Such an improvement.

Now we only lose 7 games out of 10, instead of 8.



Yes absolutely. In normal circumstances. But sadly, these are not normal circumstances.

Next season we will go into a situation, which is financially very precarious for the club. We need to cut our costs immensely. We began to do so in January, but we still have a long way to go. Sol and his team are very expensive, and the “financial gymnastics” that brought them into the club, would cripple us in Lg2.



Ok mate, let’s agree to disagree. I’ve made my stance clear on what I know, if you don’t want to believe me, it’s no bother.


Haha what did you expect him to say publicly? That Sol is a ****?

Why don’t you ask Callum how he and the rest feel about Campbell’s training routines & methods.



Ok mate. Sol has improved us because we got relegated with a slightly reduced goals against percentage.

Oh and as for Milly, maybe you should ask him what he thinks of it all.

You literally just said it there GBJ where my first highlight is of your point. That these are not normal circumstances, so judging someone on unusual circumstances is unfair...thats my point.

Also I could not care what Mark Milligan thinks of Sol. All I care about is that Marks performances dramatically improved, so yes he must really hate Sol.

You should hear what Adam Barrett says about Phil Brown on the Custard Splat podcast. But it does not matter, cause that season Adam helped us get promotion with him at the heart of defence.

All you keep saying is "You should hear what so and so say about Sol" but dont provide verification. Which I obviously understand that you dont want to jeopardise your sources, but anyone could claim that they are 'In the know' to peddle an agenda.

But yeah your right. lets agree to disagree, the real question here mate is how would Sol leave? He isnt going to walk away and give up his contract? And surely Ron cant afford to sack him?
 
Small budget!? It’s his squad and superior budget that has us on the brink of administration
Didn't mean he had by our standards a small budget ,but he was sold the job on the basis of FF happening with the improvement of spending finances and the need to be in the championship to maximise the new ground.
Ron pulls the strings finance wise and did back Brown as best he could with some quality signings.....if it wasn't for the Nouble miss at Charlton who knows where we might be now,certainly been downhill ever since
 
@Chalky and @GBJ

Great debate guys. Two sides of a very difficult story to suss out.

But surely, if you're not taking on bits of feedback from elsewhere and being tribal with an opinion, there's no question Sol improved the ethos and performance of team after coming in to a practically impossible situation? And no question he cracked some major egos to do it. Did he improve results though? Not to any convincing degree. Would anyone else have? Could anyone else have? Probably the answer is exactly same and why would we have expected anything different.

And yet, something just doesn't seem right and maybe, to the original poster's point, Sol is more suited to a different set-up than League 2 Southend United?

Honestly, I'd be okay with him staying without necessarily protesting with a sign to see it. But equally, I would Kevin Keegan love it if he proved people (and me obviously!) wrong.

But it doesn't feel like that's what's happening behind the scenes.
 
You literally just said it there GBJ where my first highlight is of your point. That these are not normal circumstances, so judging someone on unusual circumstances is unfair...thats my point.

No, the unusual circumstances I was referring to, are still to come next season, namely our income being horrendously affected.

We already know that several clubs are in danger of going to the wall, and forgive me, but seeing as we lose around £2m per year already, that puts us right on the cusp of the danger zone.

Add to the mix that we’re set to lose around £1m due to relegation, and potentially around £2m from ST’s & gate receipts, we should be concerned right now.

As for this season, I wouldn’t say there’s been unusual circumstances (Covid aside). We’ve had our usual money worries, late payments of wages, winding up orders, embargoes etc etc. Those things have been an on/off occurrence for the past decade or so.

We’ve (miraculously) managed them before, why would they play such an integral part now?

If this season had been down to bad luck, I’d concur with you completely. If I believed that the players were in support of Sol, and his ideaologies, then I’d agree he deserved an honest chance. If he looked remotely interested in the job at hand, I’d be encouraging him to go and grasp the opportunity with both hands. If his wages were sensible, I’d be most pleased.

But it’s more than that. It’s clearly more than that. You don’t lose 70% of your matches by being unlucky.

All you keep saying is "You should hear what so and so say about Sol" but dont provide verification. Which I obviously understand that you dont want to jeopardise your sources, but anyone could claim that they are 'In the know' to peddle an agenda.

Genuinely, I’d love to spill all of the beans, but I can’t.

What I can offer you, is two things.

Firstly, a lot of people on here know me in real life, and a lot know me from my online persona. They’d probably call me all kinds of derogatory and insulting names, but the one thing I’d hope they all agreed on, was the fact that I’m always honest and straightforward. My opinions will often go against the grain, but they’re genuine, and not designed to cause conflict, or stir up pots.

The second thing I can offer you, is a list of what myself (and others - I can’t take all the credit) have discovered, and revealed to SZ, over the course of this past season;

- Simon Cox’s attempted transfer in the summer of 2019, along with his attitude & behaviour.

- Tilson & Barrett’s joint interview for the job last year

- Players not being paid on two separate occasions

- Youngsters making surprise debuts - Phillips, MMN, Coker, Rush,

- Sam Mantom’s contract problems and stipulations

- Players being put on furlough, and then refusing furlough.

So sure, I agree with you anyone could just come on here & make some **** up to push an agenda. But that’s not what I’m doing.

But yeah your right. lets agree to disagree, the real question here mate is how would Sol leave? He isnt going to walk away and give up his contract? And surely Ron cant afford to sack him?

I think he’ll walk. His main priority when taking the job here, would have been to enhance his reputation. And as that’s not looking likely, with the current climate & the fact that we’re a basket case of a football club, nobody would blame him for leaving right now.

It’s the perfect opportunity for him to save face & not lose stock.

I have no inside knowledge on that by the way. it’s just my opinion. I guess we’ll find out soon.
 
No, the unusual circumstances I was referring to, are still to come next season, namely our income being horrendously affected.

We already know that several clubs are in danger of going to the wall, and forgive me, but seeing as we lose around £2m per year already, that puts us right on the cusp of the danger zone.

Add to the mix that we’re set to lose around £1m due to relegation, and potentially around £2m from ST’s & gate receipts, we should be concerned right now.

As for this season, I wouldn’t say there’s been unusual circumstances (Covid aside). We’ve had our usual money worries, late payments of wages, winding up orders, embargoes etc etc. Those things have been an on/off occurrence for the past decade or so.

We’ve (miraculously) managed them before, why would they play such an integral part now?

If this season had been down to bad luck, I’d concur with you completely. If I believed that the players were in support of Sol, and his ideaologies, then I’d agree he deserved an honest chance. If he looked remotely interested in the job at hand, I’d be encouraging him to go and grasp the opportunity with both hands. If his wages were sensible, I’d be most pleased.

But it’s more than that. It’s clearly more than that. You don’t lose 70% of your matches by being unlucky.



Genuinely, I’d love to spill all of the beans, but I can’t.

What I can offer you, is two things.

Firstly, a lot of people on here know me in real life, and a lot know me from my online persona. They’d probably call me all kinds of derogatory and insulting names, but the one thing I’d hope they all agreed on, was the fact that I’m always honest and straightforward. My opinions will often go against the grain, but they’re genuine, and not designed to cause conflict, or stir up pots.

The second thing I can offer you, is a list of what myself (and others - I can’t take all the credit) have discovered, and revealed to SZ, over the course of this past season;

- Simon Cox’s attempted transfer in the summer of 2019, along with his attitude & behaviour.

- Tilson & Barrett’s joint interview for the job last year


- Players not being paid on two separate occasions

- Youngsters making surprise debuts - Phillips, MMN, Coker, Rush,

- Sam Mantom’s contract problems and stipulations

- Players being put on furlough, and then refusing furlough.

So sure, I agree with you anyone could just come on here & make some **** up to push an agenda. But that’s not what I’m doing.



I think he’ll walk. His main priority when taking the job here, would have been to enhance his reputation. And as that’s not looking likely, with the current climate & the fact that we’re a basket case of a football club, nobody would blame him for leaving right now.

It’s the perfect opportunity for him to save face & not lose stock.

I have no inside knowledge on that by the way. it’s just my opinion. I guess we’ll find out soon.

I grant you the Simon Cox story and Tilson & Barrett rumours. Was not aware they came from you.

Interesting that you think he will walk, I just cant see it. He claims that he really wants to be a manager...surely he will stick it out? For instance, if he were to walk it would not look very good when he rocks up to a future job interview, and his resume just says that he went Macclesfield then left, went Southend then left.

Just is not a good look for a guy who is desperate to be a manager. Who knows. The proof will be in the pudding I suppose. One thing is for sure, the summer and start (If we ever do start) of next season is going to be very interesting indeed.

Never a dull moment at the Hall!
 
in answer to your original question.... of those three...........as much as it pains me to say it..................................................Brown
I didn't realize how much the majority of you Shrimper fans rated Browny tbh, personally I think he would be a decent appointment for us at this moment in time. Nigel Clough and Ryan Lowe are the current bookies favourites with Skybet, but forget them, they aren't coming imo.

I get the feeling that our new owners, football ventures, maybe they wouldn't like Browny's brash personality, I get the impression they would prefer a quieter and younger type manager, but I could be wide of the mark.

I think we should pass on Powell, he sounds too nice and we don't need that type of manager at this moment in time. Campbell is too much of a gamble imo, but our head of football knows him from Macclesfield, but I can't see us paying you guys compo for him.
 
@Chalky and @GBJ

Great debate guys. Two sides of a very difficult story to suss out.

But surely, if you're not taking on bits of feedback from elsewhere and being tribal with an opinion, there's no question Sol improved the ethos and performance of team after coming in to a practically impossible situation?

Did he though? We got rid of eight players, which forced the team dynamic to change almost overnight.

Edit: up until January, Sol’s leadership returned zero wins, three draws and eight defeats (one of which was a televised game against a mediocre non-league team!) So it’s clear he had no impact on ethos or performances during that spell.

Then January comes, we’ve shipped out the ones who I blamed (and still do) for that early run of results, and as such we became a new team.

The performances appeared to be better, but in my mind that’s simply because they couldn’t have been any worse with the previous lot.

Even with a bunch of kids, we looked hungrier and more intent on actually playing football.

That highlights just how bad it had become.

Did he improve results though? Not to any convincing degree. Would anyone else have? Could anyone else have? Probably the answer is exactly same and why would we have expected anything different.

No, I think we were doomed to failure, regardless of who took charge.

For me, the key point is that I was happy for Sol to come in, and be given at least three transfer windows to make this team his own, and shownus what he’s capable of.

But unfortunately, I now feel we’ve regressed.

And yet, something just doesn't seem right and maybe, to the original poster's point, Sol is more suited to a different set-up than League 2 Southend United?

Well, considering what the landscape could look like post-Covid, I’d suggest that he certainly isn’t the man for the job. His divisive personality aside, the biggest issue is the wages.
 
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@Chalky and @GBJ

Great debate guys. Two sides of a very difficult story to suss out.

But surely, if you're not taking on bits of feedback from elsewhere and being tribal with an opinion, there's no question Sol improved the ethos and performance of team after coming in to a practically impossible situation? And no question he cracked some major egos to do it. Did he improve results though? Not to any convincing degree. Would anyone else have? Could anyone else have? Probably the answer is exactly same and why would we have expected anything different.

And yet, something just doesn't seem right and maybe, to the original poster's point, Sol is more suited to a different set-up than League 2 Southend United?

Honestly, I'd be okay with him staying without necessarily protesting with a sign to see it. But equally, I would Kevin Keegan love it if he proved people (and me obviously!) wrong.

But it doesn't feel like that's what's happening behind the scenes.

Thanks SBH. As much as me and GBJ disagreed we both made sure we did our research on the topic.

Im similar to you, I wont lose any sleep if he left but overall I would rather he stays. For the simple matter that before Phil Brown left we had 3 managers in 16 years but in the past 3 years we have had 4 managers.

Clearly a massive problem. Just counter-intuitive to expect players to stay performing with a high turnover of managers
 
Lol, I hear you. I get that his selfies are not to peoples liking, but its just a cheap, unrelated shot which has no bearing on actual football. Its 2020, times have changed. Social media is fortunately/unfortunately part of life.

It is part of life but people in the public eye should often consider more carefully what they post - it begs the question why they need the attention it brings ? I will always remember my late parents saying that people of real wealth (in whatever form) do not feel the need to talk about it.
 
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I grant you the Simon Cox story and Tilson & Barrett rumours. Was not aware they came from you.

As with everything else, I was informed by a couple of different sources for those ones tbh, so it’s not as if I personally discovered them.

I’ll just say that there’s a few people (on here) who know just as much, if not more than me. People I do truly trust when it comes to these matters.

Interesting that you think he will walk, I just cant see it. He claims that he really wants to be a manager...surely he will stick it out? For instance, if he were to walk it would not look very good when he rocks up to a future job interview, and his resume just says that he went Macclesfield then left, went Southend then left.

Actually I think it plays into his hands tbh. Like I said, who would blame him for leaving us now? What with all the money troubles, the embargoes, forced to play the kids etc etc.

That works in his favour, because he can say I tried, but inevitably nothing can be done for that madcap football club. Our reputation is already well known in the football world.

His best case scenario when joining, was enhancing his reputation.

His worst case scenario was damaging his reputation.

Currently, he’s waivering towards damage, but if he got out now, he’ll save face.

Just is not a good look for a guy who is desperate to be a manager. Who knows. The proof will be in the pudding I suppose. One thing is for sure, the summer and start (If we ever do start) of next season is going to be very interesting indeed.

Never a dull moment at the Hall!

Well consider what I just said about his stock. Right now, it’s not too bad. Nobody - not even us - would blame him for walking.

However, next season, I do genuinely fear that it’s going to be a very rough ride for us, especially from a financial standpoint.

And Sol will know that too.

If we start off poorly, the fans won’t take long to turn, especially if there’s a whiff of double relegation in the air. And if/when they do, Ron might start getting an itchy trigger finger.

If he’s sacked, his stock falls.
 
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It is part of life but people in the public eye should often consider more carefully what they post - it begs the question why they need the attention it brings ? I will always remember my late parents saying that people of real wealth (in whatever form) do not feel the need to talk about it.

I think it’s just his nature. Most of us would know that absolutely no good can come from advertising the fact that you are shoe shopping in Harrods, whilst your players are desperately trying to find a way of funding their bills, because they haven’t been paid.

But this is the man who also claimed that this global pandemic we’re all suffering from, was engineered to kill off black people.
 
Again, those two were already on the radar’s of decent teams, and as you know, we will do well to hold onto them this summer.

I thought they would both be gone In January tbh, but it would appear that Ron held firm.



They only played in 2 games each. 160 minutes & 170 minutes respectively.

Gard has already played first team football for us (albeit brief) and had been around the first team in training long before Sol arrived.

They trained for a couple of weeks under Sol. I’m not accepting that it was his tutelage that turned them into the players we know ?

FWIW, I do think they’re decent talents that we should be desperately trying to tie down to extended contracts though.



Before Clifford came in, to counter the injuries Sol was playing 3-5-2 with WB’s.

Sol preferred to change the formation, than give him a look.

You’re right though, he’s taken his chance and has something about him.



No, sadly I was right there until the end. I’m interested to see their progression, but for right now they’re not ready. That’s evident.

Tell that to Lincoln ,see how they celebrated after that win.

I agree wholeheartedly there.
 
I didn't realize how much the majority of you Shrimper fans rated Browny tbh, personally I think he would be a decent appointment for us at this moment in time. Nigel Clough and Ryan Lowe are the current bookies favourites with Skybet, but forget them, they aren't coming imo.

I get the feeling that our new owners, football ventures, maybe they wouldn't like Browny's brash personality, I get the impression they would prefer a quieter and younger type manager, but I could be wide of the mark.

I think we should pass on Powell, he sounds too nice and we don't need that type of manager at this moment in time. Campbell is too much of a gamble imo, but our head of football knows him from Macclesfield, but I can't see us paying you guys compo for him.
Think you’re pretty spot on, some say Brown should never have been sacked. I ain’t one of those, I think he went at the right time as he’d lost certain players, lost the chairman and some of the fans. However, we’ve never replaced him adequately if you ask me and there’s been other things gone awry like fitness and discipline. Would I say he could do a short term job at a team at our level still? Yes, I think he’d be itching for a crack at it and wouid want to prove a point. Long term? Maybe not but he got us out of L2 and competing in the top half of L1 .. with a questionable transfer policy perhaps (older players on high wages) but on balance he was a success here, just a shame it ended badly. He’s definitely one to speak his mind and much like Sol, divide opinion.
 
Think you’re pretty spot on, some say Brown should never have been sacked. I ain’t one of those, I think he went at the right time as he’d lost certain players, lost the chairman and some of the fans. However, we’ve never replaced him adequately if you ask me and there’s been other things gone awry like fitness and discipline. Would I say he could do a short term job at a team at our level still? Yes, I think he’d be itching for a crack at it and wouid want to prove a point. Long term? Maybe not but he got us out of L2 and competing in the top half of L1 .. with a questionable transfer policy perhaps (older players on high wages) but on balance he was a success here, just a shame it ended badly. He’s definitely one to speak his mind and much like Sol, divide opinion.

I would like to see Sol Campbell remain at Southend and be given a chance to rebuild the side. So fair he has not been allowed to bring in a single player.

If there is to be a change, I would rather see Craig Fagan given a shot than Phil Brown. I think Phil Brown did okay at Southend but he certainly under performed at Swindon (unlike his successor).

Fagan comes across as a dedicated, intelligent, and determined character who knows how to get the best out of players and commands their respect at the under-23 level. Yes, it is a jump to becoming first-team manager but he has shown promise that he could make the transition quite quickly.

By the way, Brown has got a lot of respect for Fagan.
 
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