Powell deserves a chance

[Grayson]

I'll just tell my source who's an ex player and an ex manager that he's wrong then

Not doubting you but do you know how much of that alleged £4m is on players who haven't managed to play more than a few games since October?

I know you hate the injuries chat but we can't talk about big budgets and then ignore the likelihood that a strong percentage of that big budget was on Ferdinand, Kiernan, Hopper, Coker, Hyam, Bunn etc.

I imagine the salaries of the current XI is not even mid-table - unless Kightly really is on silly money.

 

[Ayrshire Blue]

Not doubting you but do you know how much of that alleged £4m is on players who haven't managed to play more than a few games since October?

I know you hate the injuries chat but we can't talk about big budgets and then ignore the likelihood that a strong percentage of that big budget was on Ferdinand, Kiernan, Hopper, Coker, Hyam, Bunn etc.

I imagine the salaries of the current XI is not even mid-table - unless Kightly really is on silly money.

Kind of answered your own question there RE Kightly. It's an absurd amount of money for a League One player and not only that, someone who cant even get in the team

and you're right. A big chunk of it probably is on players who are currently injured but my point is Ron is seriously going for this. His stadium dream may not ever happen if we're only in League One and it NEVER happens if we're in League 2. He's got a ridiculous amount invested in this. He can't afford to see us get relegated and that's where it looks this is heading

 

[MK Shrimper]

I bet if you checked out every team you would come to the same conclusion - it’s not just us who lose if they concede first.

Football has become a game for athletes who play a bit of football - everyone is bigger more athletic and quicker than 50 years ago - pitches and the size of the goal have stayed the same. There’s comparatively less room and time to play football these days.

The days of the wizard on the wing and the midfield maestro have nearly gone for ever. It’s all about power and pace and we lack those attributes at the moment.

Ok. I'll do the same for Luton and get back to you.

 

[Grayson]

A&B: Yes, it's a statistical fact that the "new manager" bounce means that the team actually return to the norm, hence Man Utd with Solsjkaer. It's a statistical fact that a new manager would keep us up. Powell did it last year.

C: No, that I can't but at least we'd be in Lg1.

I feel like a stuck record repeating myself over and over. When will the Powell zealots lose the scales from their eyes and see that while he was a club legend when playing, he's seriously out of his depth as a manager. There's no shame in that - recently deceased Gordon Banks realised that managing a team was not his forte, when average player Alex Ferguson became an absolute legend for Man Utd.

And the I'll wait.....tag is getting old GBJ. I work in stats, I make sure I can back up my claims. You can choose to ignore them all you like.

This post is nonsense, sorry. There are various articles discreting the 'new manager bounce' as simply the new manager benefiting from the variance, rather than causing it. A quick Google discredits this 'fact' quickly.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/soccernomics-does-sacking-manager-actually-make-difference

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...ounce-its-all-down-to-lady-luck-idUKKBN1EF1NM

 

[MK Shrimper]

This post is nonsense, sorry. There are various articles discreting the 'new manager bounce' as simply the new manager benefiting from the variance, rather than causing it. A quick Google discredits this 'fact' quickly.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/soccernomics-does-sacking-manager-actually-make-difference

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...ounce-its-all-down-to-lady-luck-idUKKBN1EF1NM

Any study that quotes "luck" as a factor is not worth the paper it's written on.

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

Any study that quotes "luck" as a factor is not worth the paper it's written on.

Hmmmmmmm.
Luck has a lot to do with football.
A lot to do with life also.

Football is such fine margins. In another world we are in the top 3 with a fit squad and a different psychological approach.

 

[GBJ]

I'll just tell my source who's an ex player and an ex manager that he's wrong then

Wrong about what? What are his claims?

 

[Grayson]

Any study that quotes "luck" as a factor is not worth the paper it's written on.

Give over. You are making claims positioned as being fact and - when questioned - cannot back it up.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Hmmmmmmm.
Luck has a lot to do with football.
A lot to do with life also.

Football is such fine margins. In another world we are in the top 3 with a fit squad and a different psychological approach.

There is no such thing as luck. Just cause & effect.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Give over. You are making claims positioned as being fact and - when questioned - cannot back it up.

and you've used Google. Well done.

 

[Grapevine]

This post is nonsense, sorry. There are various articles discreting the 'new manager bounce' as simply the new manager benefiting from the variance, rather than causing it. A quick Google discredits this 'fact' quickly.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/soccernomics-does-sacking-manager-actually-make-difference

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...ounce-its-all-down-to-lady-luck-idUKKBN1EF1NM

Perception is by far the most powerful tool in football.

I lose count of the amount of times an argument for or against something is based on someone’s perception of something when the stats / facts completely dispel their theory......it’s why it’s the subjective sport on the planet.....

Golf...the player with the least shots wins....
Running....the person who runs the quickest wins...
Tennis....the one who wins the most tournaments is no 1 in the world...

In football we could argue all night over who is best Ronaldo or Messi and no amount of stats or facts could tell you or me who was actually right or wrong.....

It’s why we love it but perception is a very dangerous thing and whereas fans will base almost their entire opinion on it, the top coaches and managers will always opt for something more substantial.....

 

[Grayson]

and you've used Google. Well done.

It must take a special effort to remain that ignorant. I'm done.

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

and you've used Google. Well done.

MK mate you are having a shocker here.
You have criticised somebody for researching and backing up their point.
Not everything in this life is just "the way you feel" it's about facts also.
There are loads of urban football myths.
The same thing gets said over and over and it is considered true.

Often replacing a manager means players will play up or fight a bit harder - but - this only applies if that set of players is underperforming alone. We are of course not just underperforming we are torn to pieces!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Well he worked for Jobson, which is an equivalent to a transfer embargo. He resigned twice because of his frustrations with working for Vic. His squad was smaller in numbers but they all had specific roles and his captains were leaders, Paul Clark and Peter Butler comes to mind. CP has very few players that could lead this team, Simon Cox seems the only one left.

I've mentioned this before but when looking for leadership you need to look at the injury list

Jason Demetriou, captains an international side - out injured
Ben Coker, Powell's first choice as captain - out injured
Mark Oxley, Powell's second choice as captain - out injured

Not to mention that when we now look flat it was Tom Hopper who use to give us energy with his work-rate.

If you're a player in this squad and you see what Powell said after Tuesday, "we're not the sort of team to come back from going 1-0 down" How does that make you feel?

Motivated to prove him wrong?

A&B: Yes, it's a statistical fact that the "new manager" bounce means that the team actually return to the norm, hence Man Utd with Solsjkaer. It's a statistical fact that a new manager would keep us up. Powell did it last year.

C: No, that I can't but at least we'd be in Lg1.

I feel like a stuck record repeating myself over and over. When will the Powell zealots lose the scales from their eyes and see that while he was a club legend when playing, he's seriously out of his depth as a manager. There's no shame in that - recently deceased Gordon Banks realised that managing a team was not his forte, when average player Alex Ferguson became an absolute legend for Man Utd.

And the I'll wait.....tag is getting old GBJ. I work in stats, I make sure I can back up my claims. You can choose to ignore them all you like.

You seem like the zealot. You're the one resorting to hyperbole like "seriously out of his depth". If Powell's seriously out of his depth what was Alvin Martin or Dick Bate?

Your quoted example Alex Ferguson had a rocky time at Man U. He was nearly sacked but for a famous Mark Robins FA Cup goal. Maybe you need to show similar patience?

 

[GBJ]

A&B: Yes, it's a statistical fact that the "new manager" bounce means that the team actually return to the norm, hence Man Utd with Solsjkaer. It's a statistical fact that a new manager would keep us up. Powell did it last year.

C: No, that I can't but at least we'd be in Lg1.

I feel like a stuck record repeating myself over and over. When will the Powell zealots lose the scales from their eyes and see that while he was a club legend when playing, he's seriously out of his depth as a manager. There's no shame in that - recently deceased Gordon Banks realised that managing a team was not his forte, when average player Alex Ferguson became an absolute legend for Man Utd.

And the I'll wait.....tag is getting old GBJ. I work in stats, I make sure I can back up my claims. You can choose to ignore them all you like.

If you work in stats, you’ll be aware that stats, and facts are not the same thing.

Statistically we’ve not been relegated yet. Statistically, there’s about 10 teams who have a greater chance of getting relegated than us.

Stats can be manipulated to fit an agenda.

You can keep repeating yourself about Powell being out of his depth, but it doesn’t make it true. I mean, it might be true, but we won’t know that for certain, until he’s had to chance to utilise his full squad. You seem to think that you do know, when of course, you don’t.

My opinion of him has nothing to do with him being a former player. That simply doesn’t enter into the equation for me. It’s the idea that you’d happily ship out a manager, who up until the last few months, was seen not only as an excellent appointment, but a genuine chance for us to fight for promotion.

I gave a list of positives that Chris has brought to our club, which cannot be argued, whilst you’ve given predictions & hypothetics.

And lols that you bring Alex Ferguson into the discussion - the man who was almost sacked by Man Utd for being “out of his depth” as a manger, at the start of his reign

You said Powell deserves to be sacked. I’m still waiting to hear your reason why a hardworking man, who’s hands have been tied, deserves to lose his job, when at the moment, we’re in a precarious situation, but not panic stations.

And don’t worry, I’ll always wait for you...

 

[Grapevine]

I’m starting to really quite like you @GBJ ?? decent post that.

 

[Napster]

Just for clarity - no-one really knows our wage bill, as the actual figures released via the annual report, are out of date, and salaries are not delineated by job role. The staff costs for the year for us ending 2017, were £4.2m. There were 105 playing staff (up 20 from 2016), and 52 other, (inc admin staff/commercial guys/directors). If we assume a ratio then of 2/3 playing staff, the wage bill for playing staff is about £2.8m

Let's look at a few similar clubs.

Walsall - 90/46 split, wage bill £3.1m, players wages then £2.05m

Charlton - similar staff numbers, wage bill is £9m!!! thats three times ours. and this is reduced since their drop from the Championship.

Burton - double our revenue - their commercial arm is obviously very good. Their staff costs are £7.5m however, with double the employees we have - so actual salaries might be similar.

Scunthorpe - revenue way lower than us at about £4m. Total salaries £6m, but only 50 footballers, out of 250 staff, so assume about £1m players salaries.

Coventry - 129 playing staff out of total 400 overall - total staff costs £4m. Assume about £2m players wages.

A lot of clubs file small company accounts, so dont have to announce staff costs. In the numbers above, it's still not clear what players salaries look like as they're lots of casual staff, or how we compare, suffice to say, the big boys pay really well.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

If you work in stats, you’ll be aware that stats, and facts are not the same thing.

Statistically we’ve not been relegated yet. Statistically, there’s about 10 teams who have a greater chance of getting relegated than us.

Stats can be manipulated to fit an agenda.

You can keep repeating yourself about Powell being out of his depth, but it doesn’t make it true. I mean, it might be true, but we won’t know that for certain, until he’s had to chance to utilise his full squad. You seem to think that you do know, when of course, you don’t.

My opinion of him has nothing to do with him being a former player. That simply doesn’t enter into the equation for me. It’s the idea that you’d happily ship out a manager, who up until the last few months, was seen not only as an excellent appointment, but a genuine chance for us to fight for promotion.

I gave a list of positives that Chris has brought to our club, which cannot be argued, whilst you’ve given predictions & hypothetics.

And lols that you bring Alex Ferguson into the discussion - the man who was almost sacked by Man Utd for being “out of his depth” as a manger, at the start of his reign

You said Powell deserves to be sacked. I’m still waiting to hear your reason why a hardworking man, who’s hands have been tied, deserves to lose his job, when at the moment, we’re in a precarious situation, but not panic stations.

And don’t worry, I’ll always wait for you...

Great post.

 

[RHB]

Obviously ChitChat's gain is the Politics and Boxing Forums loss where GBJ is concerned. (said in a comical voice with a hint of something or the other).

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Just for clarity - no-one really knows our wage bill, as the actual figures released via the annual report, are out of date, and salaries are not delineated by job role. The staff costs for the year for us ending 2017, were £4.2m. There were 105 playing staff (up 20 from 2016), and 52 other, (inc admin staff/commercial guys/directors). If we assume a ratio then of 2/3 playing staff, the wage bill for playing staff is about £2.8m

Let's look at a few similar clubs.

Walsall - 90/46 split, wage bill £3.1m, players wages then £2.05m

Charlton - similar staff numbers, wage bill is £9m!!! thats three times ours. and this is reduced since their drop from the Championship.

Burton - double our revenue - their commercial arm is obviously very good. Their staff costs are £7.5m however, with double the employees we have - so actual salaries might be similar.

Scunthorpe - revenue way lower than us at about £4m. Total salaries £6m, but only 50 footballers, out of 250 staff, so assume about £1m players salaries.

Coventry - 129 playing staff out of total 400 overall - total staff costs £4m. Assume about £2m players wages.

A lot of clubs file small company accounts, so dont have to announce staff costs. In the numbers above, it's still not clear what players salaries look like as they're lots of casual staff, or how we compare, suffice to say, the big boys pay really well.

Playing salaries are the biggest single cost to clubs. I'd work on the assumption players salary are 55%- 60% of revenue.

There's no way Scunthorpe pay their non-playing staff (programme sellers, turnstile operators, club shop staff?) the same as players!