'President Putin 'probably' approved Litvinenko murder'

[Tangled up in Blue]

Shouldn't this thread be retitled the conspiracy theory thread? Anyone seen any flying saucers recently? I know I have.

 

[Benfleet A1]

OK rigsby, how do you explain the perfume spray that Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess found. Dawn Sturgess tragically sprayed it on her wrists thinking it was perfume, but it was Novichok. Was that spray specially prepared, adapted and discarded by the British or the Russians?

Oh, this will be good.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Easy reply for the conspiracy mob; another set up by MI5 etc to boost the underperforming original anti soviet story.................nonsense on top of nonsense.

The moon is made of cheese.

 

[rigsby]

OK rigsby, how do you explain the perfume spray that Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess found. Dawn Sturgess tragically sprayed it on her wrists thinking it was perfume, but it was Novichok. Was that spray specially prepared, adapted and discarded by the British or the Russians?

There never was a discarded perfume bottle.I f there was you would have been told a different story.

I did try to post a link, post 110 but if you Type that in it’s the film of Charlie Rowley being lifted into an Ambulance.

The official story is Dawn Sturgess gets taken to hospital with the same symptoms as the Skripals. Charlie does what any concerned boyfriend contaminated with deadly Novichok does.....He goes of shopping for a few hours. Then falls ill back and goes back to the house.

That’s why the ambulance crew were in “ Hazmat suites”.... know have a look at that well edited mobile phone clip and see if you can spot the obvious mistakes.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

There never was a discarded perfume bottle.I f there was you would have been told a different story.

I did try to post a link, post 110 but if you Type that in it’s the film of Charlie Rowley being lifted into an Ambulance.

The official story is Dawn Sturgess gets taken to hospital with the same symptoms as the Skripals. Charlie does what any concerned boyfriend contaminated with deadly Novichok does.....He goes of shopping for a few hours. Then falls ill back and goes back to the house.

That’s why the ambulance crew were in “ Hazmat suites”.... know have a look at that well edited mobile phone clip and see if you can spot the obvious mistakes.

They went shopping the day before on the Friday. Here is their friend's account......
Before being taken ill, the pair had visited shops and places in Salisbury on the Friday afternoon and evening.
Ms Sturgess then attended a church fair the following day in Amesbury while Mr Rowley met with his friend Sam Hobson, 29, who later called the ambulance after their collapse.
Mr Hobson said Ms Sturgess began “foaming at the mouth” after they went back to Mr Rowley’s house in Muggleton Road later that day so he called for an ambulance.
He told the Guardian: "She was on the floor having a fit and foaming at the mouth and that's when he (Mr Rowley) started sweating really badly, so he had a shower and then he went to his room for a bit, got dressed, came out and was a bit tired, sat down for a bit and then that's when he got up up and started acting weird.” Paramedics took Ms Sturgess away but later came back for Mr Rowley after his friend said he began “rocking against the wall making funny noises”..........
And if what you are saying is true, then Mr Rowley is in on it because he must be lying about the perfume spray bottle that you say there never was.
This is getting more and more fantastic.

 

[rigsby]

Yes the story does change over time. Like the Detictive who was taken I’ll after attending the Skripals in the park....As soon as people said why would a detective be called to an incident like that....It changed to, he went to their house as part of the investigation.

I have just looked at that Sky clip. It has been cleverly edited from the earlier 2 minute version.

What you can see is the police in short sleeve order but with the vital full protection of blue medical gloves.... In reality they would be nowhere near the incident. The Ambulance crew in Wickes desposible overalls and value masks that would not have any protection against any chemical incident, let alone a nerve agent.

What they have edited is one of the crew doesn’t even have his suit zipped up they don’t know how to operate the ball mask, the tail lift, or how to drop the trolley correctly. The clip you do see of them sliding Rowley in, is after they have taken him out and turned the. Trolley round the right way.

It was either their first day on the job and their manager needs to be sacked becuse they were sent with the totally unsuitable protection.....Or someone has been lying to us..... The government ? The media, who do now fake certain news clips and witnesses in order to get an exclusive ?

If you tap in Salisbury or Novichok on the Sky search you can go back on a timeline for news on the subject..... the CCTV of Rowley in a shop..... Have a look.... whoever it is it’s not Charlie Rowley.[/QUOTE]

 

[GBJ]

Playing devils advocste, @rigsby lets say that what we’ve been told by the media/government isn’t truthful & there is something dodgy about this story. What is the purpose of it all?

All conspiracy theories have an end goal - 9/11 was War & oil. Mass shootings are always about gun control. What is the purpose of this one?

Why would our government want a very public fight with Russia?

 

[rigsby]

Easy reply for the conspiracy mob; another set up by MI5 etc to boost the underperforming original anti soviet story.................nonsense on top of nonsense.
The moon is made of cheese.

Which famous author said “Its easer to fool the public than to convince them they have been fooled.”

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I suspect the detective was sent to the address as the ex Russian spy would be on a risk list tab on the police's computer system which designated such a response in the same way that other high value foreign and UKGuv nationals do. No conspiracy there surely in that, just standard good intendingresponse?

 

[rigsby]

Playing devils advocste, @rigsby lets say that what we’ve been told by the media/government isn’t truthful & there is something dodgy about this story. What is the purpose of it all?

All conspiracy theories have an end goal - 9/11 was War & oil. Mass shootings are always about gun control. What is the purpose of this one?

Why would our government want a very public fight with Russia?

That’s the question I have been asking myself.

As someone who went to school throughout the 70’s we were taught to hate and fear the Russians....Certian teachers used to say to us lads we will be fighting the next war on the Eastern front in Germany.....As we were in the nuclear age I always thought that idea rather ridiculous.

My own view is that despite Russia so far never hurting let alone killing any of us Brits in the last 70 years. They do rather arm our so called enemies...and enemies of everyone’s favourite friends the Israelis.

Even this laughable story happened just before the WC..., Remember the should we boycott, don’t go your all doomed media comments and just as people start enjoying the whole WC and we hearing good stories from our fans....up pops this perfume bottle. Obviously designed in a hidden bunker by the Russian version of M..... Because that’s what most people expect.... after all it’s what we have been told all our lives....Anyone who questions this is a hieratic and should be dragged to the ducking pond.

So if the ex head of NATO General Wesley Clark is correct... He said the list of 7 countries to be invaded or controlled was drawn up pre 9/11. Then Russia needs to be our enemy because they are rivals in the arms trade war. As we have seen in Syria, Libya and Sudan... Mayhem is good for business. Iran and North Korea are on the list.

 

[rigsby]

I suspect the detective was sent to the address as the ex Russian spy would be on a risk list tab on the police's computer system which designated such a response in the same way that other high value foreign and UKGuv nationals do. No conspiracy there surely in that, just standard good intendingresponse?

The original story was he went to the park. people asked why would a detective be called to a standard two people out of it in a public park a daily occurrence in ever town in Britain. that changed and now an off duty nurse gave them first aid for 40 minutes..... Why wasn’t she dead.... Anyone seen an interview with this nurse?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

The original story was he went to the park. people asked why would a detective be called to a standard two people out of it in a public park a daily occurrence in ever town in Britain. that changed and now an off duty nurse gave them first aid for 40 minutes..... Why wasn’t she dead.... Anyone seen an interview with this nurse?

Local PCs ‘on the beat’ will attend situations like the one in the park where the Skripals were taken ill. As I said before, it was not at that point known what was going on. It could have been drug related and therefore an offence in that respect, one way or another. Completely normal. Clearly medical staff / ambulance would also be called. If an off duty member of the emergency services passes any scene they try to help - this is them being good citizens and exercising a duty of care. Ever heard the phrase ‘is there a doctor in the house’? I don’t remember that being clarified as an on duty doctor.

I have not checked whether the same PC went to the house as well as the park. I imagine he would have, as he would be ‘on the case’ having attended the park and would have knowledge of the condition of the patients and would make follow up enquiries. I repeat: at that time this could still be a standard illness / drug-related incident and police officers in attendance manage the case.

I would not be remotely surprised if the police officer did not become ill as a result of his time in the park - he would be unlikely to have touched the Skripals at all given their condition, he would have been securing the area and providing updates on their condition via his radio and bodyworn video. In the course of his follow up enquiry at their home he would have been highly likely to have touched their front door handle, which is where the contamination was.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

There is no ‘story’ of original and subsequent changes Rigsby. There is a fast moving situation, possibly slight inaccuracies in reporting in the media (that is common in all media in stories at all levels) while full facts emerge.

The only truly malign dodgy stuff out there seeking to manipulate truth is from the Fancy Bears and their ilk, designed to fool conspiracy theorists. It’s sad that people are so easily taken in by that and end up in a parallel universe with such a myopic view of reality that they believe malicious, autocratic, undemocratic foreign government spin over what is quite clearly and obviously blatant truth.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

There is much about the idea of an ex spy living openly and being visited by family from Russia, seemingly without care, that does not ring true or sensible. Why was he not false/new identity with no contacts etc that is commonly portrayed as the way of these things, especially after the many other deaths of former soviets.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

There is much about the idea of an ex spy living openly and being visited by family from Russia, seemingly without care, that does not ring true or sensible. Why was he not false/new identity with no contacts etc that is commonly portrayed as the way of these things, especially after the man other deaths of former soviets.

Are you suggesting he was planted there in full knowledge that, without the extra steps you suggest, it would be inviting a Litvinenko style assassination?

I doubt his family members were taken to be threats so they would be allowed to maintain contact. Arrangements for protection/isolation and identity would have been discussed with the Skripals. They have a right to decide how to live as - unlike Russia - we believe in and respect personal choice and freedom in this country. In no way would they have been told ‘this is how it’s going to be’ and that’s that.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Besides, if it was the UK government all along as has been suggested - or a total hoax and they either don’t exist at all or have been away fishing somewhere - I fail to see how the UK government giving them new identities that clearly the UK government would know, would have helped protect them from us.

 

[rigsby]

Local PCs ‘on the beat’ will attend situations like the one in the park where the Skripals were taken ill. As I said before, it was not at that point known what was going on. It could have been drug related and therefore an offence in that respect, one way or another. Completely normal. Clearly medical staff / ambulance would also be called. If an off duty member of the emergency services passes any scene they try to help - this is them being good citizens and exercising a duty of care. Ever heard the phrase ‘is there a doctor in the house’? I don’t remember that being clarified as an on duty doctor.

I have not checked whether the same PC went to the house as well as the park. I imagine he would have, as he would be ‘on the case’ having attended the park and would have knowledge of the condition of the patients and would make follow up enquiries. I repeat: at that time this could still be a standard illness / drug-related incident and police officers in attendance manage the case.

I would not be remotely surprised if the police officer did not become ill as a result of his time in the park - he would be unlikely to have touched the Skripals at all given their condition, he would have been securing the area and providing updates on their condition via his radio and bodyworn video. In the course of his follow up enquiry at their home he would have been highly likely to have touched their front door handle, which is where the contamination was.

Local PCs ‘on the beat’ will attend situations like the one in the park where the Skripals were taken ill. As I said before, it was not at that point known what was going on. It could have been drug related and therefore an offence in that respect, one way or another. Completely normal. Clearly medical staff / ambulance would also be called. If an off duty member of the emergency services passes any scene they try to help - this is them being good citizens and exercising a duty of care. Ever heard the phrase ‘is there a doctor in the house’? I don’t remember that being clarified as an on duty doctor.

I have not checked whether the same PC went to the house as well as the park. I imagine he would have, as he would be ‘on the case’ having attended the park and would have knowledge of the condition of the patients and would make follow up enquiries. I repeat: at that time this could still be a standard illness / drug-related incident and police officers in attendance manage the case.

I would not be remotely surprised if the police officer did not become ill as a result of his time in the park - he would be unlikely to have touched the Skripals at all given their condition, he would have been securing the area and providing updates on their condition via his radio and bodyworn video. In the course of his follow up enquiry at their home he would have been highly likely to have touched their front door handle, which is where the contamination was.

You have a lot of guesses going on in this post, I haven’t checked, I imagine, highly likely, I would be surprised etc.

The good news is I have been watching this drama from the start. He is not a PC...Nick Bailey is a Detective Sergeant.

 

[rigsby]

There is no ‘story’ of original and subsequent changes Rigsby. There is a fast moving situation, possibly slight inaccuracies in reporting in the media (that is common in all media in stories at all levels) while full facts emerge.

The only truly malign dodgy stuff out there seeking to manipulate truth is from the Fancy Bears and their ilk, designed to fool conspiracy theorists. It’s sad that people are so easily taken in by that and end up in a parallel universe with such a myopic view of reality that they believe malicious, autocratic, undemocratic foreign government spin over what is quite clearly and obviously blatant truth.

I’m surprised so many of you have swallowed the “must be the Russians coz their all bad” conspiracy theory.

So my question to you is how did anyone survive if it really was a nerve agent attack.?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

You have a lot of guesses going on in this post, I haven’t checked, I imagine, highly likely, I would be surprised etc.

The good news is I have been watching this drama from the start. He is not a PC...Nick Bailey is a Detective Sergeant.

I wasn’t personally involved Rigsby, but I do know how policing works - rather well, as it happens. I choose to phrase my understanding of events that I was not personally a party to in a way that gives room for alternatives to be possible. That doesn’t make my assessment wrong, if anything it adds credence to analysis if you implicitly or explicitly allow room for manoeuvre without full proof of all facts.

 

[GBJ]

And th

That’s the question I have been asking myself.

As someone who went to school throughout the 70’s we were taught to hate and fear the Russians....Certian teachers used to say to us lads we will be fighting the next war on the Eastern front in Germany.....As we were in the nuclear age I always thought that idea rather ridiculous.

My own view is that despite Russia so far never hurting let alone killing any of us Brits in the last 70 years. They do rather arm our so called enemies...and enemies of everyone’s favourite friends the Israelis.

Even this laughable story happened just before the WC..., Remember the should we boycott, don’t go your all doomed media comments and just as people start enjoying the whole WC and we hearing good stories from our fans....up pops this perfume bottle. Obviously designed in a hidden bunker by the Russian version of M..... Because that’s what most people expect.... after all it’s what we have been told all our lives....Anyone who questions this is a hieratic and should be dragged to the ducking pond.

So if the ex head of NATO General Wesley Clark is correct... He said the list of 7 countries to be invaded or controlled was drawn up pre 9/11. Then Russia needs to be our enemy because they are rivals in the arms trade war. As we have seen in Syria, Libya and Sudan... Mayhem is good for business. Iran and North Korea are on the list.

And this is where our opinions fork. I’m not disagreeing with anything you’ve written, it’s just that it doesn’t add up to an explanation, that is beyond reasonable doubt.

I’m open to being convinced otherwise, but like most of the conspiracy theories these days, they’re mostly based on conjecture & circumstantial evidence.

You alluded to your expertise & experience about chemicals earlier in the thread, which was quite interesting, but as you know, anecdotal evidence is banned from discussions here ;)