Promotion and relegation 2019/20 season

[kentblues]

It must be me, but I'm a little bemused by the last four posts.
Kent Blues suggests this was 91 (now 100, according to the BBC) who wrote out of 1500.
One assumes it's the clubs like Bulls and South Shields from the immediate leagues below step 2 non-league who have most to lose.
'Representatives from each of the leagues'? I doubt very much, for example, whether the Cornwall Combination made or the Shropshire Premier League made a protest.
Each level to step 13 needs an awful lot of representation. I'd like to see evidence to the contrary, and I can't find any.
'More important than anything else'?
Is that the same complaint that clubs should not be thinking of the future in the face of the current crisis?
In which case, the FA should also have downed tools until it's over.
One action provokes a reaction.

For clarity it was 64 clubs out of 91 leagues at the time of writing. Summation is 1500 clubs based on 16 or so clubs per league- may well be wrong. I don't know how precisely the leagues are represented?, maybe the league representation is grouped in some way. You might not believe the FA when they say this is the feedback from the representatives from the leagues, but I doubt they will lose too much sleep about that unfortunately. I just take it at face value- if someone proves the FA wrong then I will change my view for sure. My start point isn't that they are not telling the truth.

I think the point stands that 64 clubs might well not be, in fact, very many at all, and maybe a decent reporter would have had the gumption to provide the context so that we didn't need to debate/guess/summise on what is obviously a very relevant point. But the headline these days is far more important than the facts. CP innocent here- he has picked up the story from elsewhere (BBC?) and shared.

Of course, the clubs should absolutely be thinking of the future of their club and their staff, and in fact should be free to focus on that in an atmosphere of certainty provided by Prem, EFL, FA. For example if they know this season won't complete they can focus on surviving and getting ready for next. From a financial point of view what they do if they have to complete the season verses if they don't may be very different. The finances of clubs that might lose out (or indeed the finances of the clubs that might benefit) should not somehow take precedence or count more- or as I say provide some sort of veto on the outcome.

Don't know why the FA should down tools- I would have thought from an administration point of view they would have been able to continue whilst social distancing/homeworking? And they along with the Prem & EFL have plenty of work to do working out how to support clubs though this.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

'64 clubs out of 91 leagues at the time of writing. Summation is 1500 clubs based on 16 or so clubs per league- may well be wrong.
Yes, I'm afraid you are.
The Combined Counties and Isthmian Leagues start at 21 minimum.
I think you won't have to look too far past these two leagues and their northern equivalent to get your 100 protests.
My point about the FA was their voiding the season from non-league step 3 caused the protest in the first place.
By 'downing tools', I'll modify that to putting crucial decisions on hold.

 

[kentblues]

'64 clubs out of 91 leagues at the time of writing. Summation is 1500 clubs based on 16 or so clubs per league- may well be wrong.
Yes, I'm afraid you are.
The Combined Counties and Isthmian Leagues start at 21 minimum.
I think you won't have to look too far past these two leagues and their northern equivalent to get your 100 protests.
My point about the FA was their voiding the season from non-league step 3 caused the protest in the first place.
By 'downing tools', I'll modify that to putting crucial decisions on hold.

So its probably out of 2000+ teams. Your point is that the 64 (you mention now its up to 100) come from mainly the Combined Counties and Isthmian Leagues- my point is the report/FA says from the 91 leagues- I don't know who the clubs are. Mainly because other than the fact the 64 came from the 91 divisions it doesn't say.

Have you got the names of the clubs, or is their a report somewhere that says the majority come from the Combined Counties and Isthmian Leagues, or is it just your own opinion without having any facts? BTW nothing wrong with that as after all I don't claim specific insight and so the same comment would apply to myself.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

So its probably out of 2000+ teams. Your point is that the 64 (you mention now its up to 100) come from mainly the Combined Counties and Isthmian Leagues- my point is the report/FA says from the 91 leagues- I don't know who the clubs are. Mainly because other than the fact the 64 came from the 91 divisions it doesn't say.

Have you got the names of the clubs, or is their a report somewhere that says the majority come from the Combined Counties and Isthmian Leagues, or is it just your own opinion without having any facts? BTW nothing wrong with that as after all I don't claim specific insight and so the same comment would apply to myself.

I think one has to consider who has most to lose.
There are 34 leagues from non-league steps 3 and step 4.
I've since had a word from a chairman of a London-based club at Step 5, who says all he received was a decision to veto the season from the FA.
If there was any demurring, he was to get in touch.
He didn't; because he didn't see the point.
To get to 91 leagues you have to go down to step 12 and a bit of 13, where some players pay subs to turn out for their clubs!
I doubt very much anyone from step 4 onwards were among the 100 protestors.

 

[kentblues]

I think one has to consider who has most to lose.
There are 34 leagues from non-league steps 3 and step 4.
I've since had a word from a chairman of a London-based club at Step 5, who says all he received was a decision to veto the season from the FA.
If there was any demurring, he was to get in touch.
He didn't; because he didn't see the point.
To get to 91 leagues you have to go down to step 12 and a bit of 13, where some players pay subs to turn out for their clubs!
I doubt very much anyone from step 4 onwards were among the 100 protestors.

You may well be right. We just dont know I guess. Anyway probably we have done it to death- on the other hand a pleasant way to fill some time. More interesting I see the council is to use emergency powers to make a decision on the Roots Hall planning application in days (i.e. one guesses before April 11)

 

[kentblues]

National League suspended indefinitely
The three divisions of England's National League have been suspended indefinitely because of coronavirus.
The competition had been originally postponed until 3 April but that has now been extended following a board meeting on Tuesday.
It comes after all non-league football in steps three to seven was ended immediately on Thursday with no promotion or relegation.
The National League said it was looking at "how best to conclude" the season.
But it is not yet known if the competition, which is made up of the National League, National League North and National League South, will also be cancelled with all results expunged.

 

[southendkid]

The 3pm TV ban on live matches has been lifted for the rest of the season - an indication that the FA are planning to finish the season but with matches played behind closed doors?

 

[Barling Magna]

Sounds like it.....

Uefa lift 3pm blackout clearing path for behind closed doors games

The English and Scottish FAs requested the transmission-free period to be withdrawn due to the coronavirus pandemic

tinyurl.com

 

[Mick]

'64 clubs out of 91 leagues at the time of writing. Summation is 1500 clubs based on 16 or so clubs per league- may well be wrong.
Yes, I'm afraid you are.
The Combined Counties and Isthmian Leagues start at 21 minimum.
I think you won't have to look too far past these two leagues and their northern equivalent to get your 100 protests.
My point about the FA was their voiding the season from non-league step 3 caused the protest in the first place.
By 'downing tools', I'll modify that to putting crucial decisions on hold.

Latest development on this:

Solicitors' Letter

 

[kentblues]

Latest development on this:

Solicitors' Letter

Thanks very interesting.

 

[Chris Powell's mate]

Latest development on this:

Solicitors' Letter

Agreed! What do they say about acting in haste?

 

[kentblues]

Agreed! What do they say about acting in haste?

TBF that is the point being made by the solicitor acting for the predominantly lower level clubs- they would say that wouldn't they. On the same basis we should then be saying the EFL should also be putting off a decision for as long as possible...into May... then June...and so on.
This the clubs at levels above 5 are saying is killing them, they need certainty and if the season is voided they can plan accordingly. The fact that a solicitor on behalf of this predominantly different set of clients begs to differ is not surprising- who pays the piper and all that.

They would do well to remember the old adage-- before you retain a brief you have a very high chance of success, once you retain them you have a good chance of success, after a few bills it will be looking a bit less certain maybe 50/50, after a few more bills it's not quite looking as we hoped but you have a chance what do you want to do? What money back? No, no, no I'm sorry you must have misunderstood..

 

[Malcontent]

I've been thinking about this season and what may follow it. So much seems to be about the status quo, getting this season completed and then on to next.

I find this a bit troubling. It's too easy to just label this as a problem associated to the pandemic. Clubs in the lower leagues have been teetering on the edge for years. Shouldn't there be a wholesale look at league structure, cup competitions and finance prior to a new season starting? Now seems like a perfect opportunity to think strategically about the future of the professional game.

No idea what the answer is, but I'd be really interested to hear the views of fellow zoners.

 

[Medway Blue]

I've been thinking about this season and what may follow it. So much seems to be about the status quo, getting this season completed and then on to next.

I find this a bit troubling. It's too easy to just label this as a problem associated to the pandemic. Clubs in the lower leagues have been teetering on the edge for years. Shouldn't there be a wholesale look at league structure, cup competitions and finance prior to a new season starting? Now seems like a perfect opportunity to think strategically about the future of the professional game.

No idea what the answer is, but I'd be really interested to hear the views of fellow zoners.

There are lots of things that need looking at.

Distribution of TV money; wage caps; regionalisation of lower leagues; making the EFL cup an EFL-only competition and increasing prize money; I also think they need to do something to reduce the need for parachute payments to open up the Championship, but I’m not sure what they could do.

 

[rigsby]

There are lots of things that need looking at.

Distribution of TV money; wage caps; regionalisation of lower leagues; making the EFL cup an EFL-only competition and increasing prize money; I also think they need to do something to reduce the need for parachute payments to open up the Championship, but I’m not sure what they could do.

There are calls to give the Championship more money in order to narrow the gap with the PL. For clubs like us that would just make the jump up from L1 impossible whilst at RH and very slim even with a new stadium.

The only way we will see a return to some sort of fairness in English football is when the big clubs go into a full time European/world league.

I personally like the idea of 100 clubs in 5 divisions of 20. The bottom 2 being North and South.

 

[Medway Blue]

There are calls to give the Championship more money in order to narrow the gap with the PL. For clubs like us that would just make the jump up from L1 impossible whilst at RH and very slim even with a new stadium.

The only way we will see a return to some sort of fairness in English football is when the big clubs go into a full time European/world league.

I personally like the idea of 100 clubs in 5 divisions of 20. The bottom 2 being North and South.

Yep, this was my thinking too. PL, Championship, L1, L2N and L2S. Plus an FA Cup (with replays) for the entire game, an EFL Cup for EFL only, and an EFL trophy for Leagues 1 and 2 in a strictly round robin format.

 

[Brett Angle]

Yep, this was my thinking too. PL, Championship, L1, L2N and L2S. Plus an FA Cup (with replays) for the entire game, an EFL Cup for EFL only, and an EFL trophy for Leagues 1 and 2 in a strictly round robin format.

I agree - but would go further and say have League 1 (N) and (S) and then have the National League divided into North, Central and South. This would help resolve the conundrum to end the season early with compensation paid by PL and EFL as appropriate- and furthermore reduce travelling costs for the lower league clubs and fans next season and beyond. Every club across all 5 leagues would be either as close to the 2nd tier as they were at the start of this season or for most one step nearer - albeit promotion to that tier becomes more challenging I grant you. The footballing authorities can then have a better shot at resolving issues in Championship and PL by either playing them in the summer - or the Autumn before the start of the new season - or I suspect, coming to some financial agreement themselves that would see those clubs that were vying for promotion sharing a pool of money with those PL clubs who were threatened with relegation - and scrubbing the season.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Agree re north south split makes perfect sense, dont agree with replays in cups, extra time and pens on the day for me.

would also scrap league cup 2 legged semi finals as well

 

[tallboyblue]

Agree re north south split makes perfect sense, dont agree with replays in cups, extra time and pens on the day for me.

would also scrap league cup 2 legged semi finals as well

The EFL can’t even make a decision about this season. How they could manage to reorganise to that extent is beyond me

 

[Stuart W]

Yep, this was my thinking too. PL, Championship, L1, L2N and L2S. Plus an FA Cup (with replays) for the entire game, an EFL Cup for EFL only, and an EFL trophy for Leagues 1 and 2 in a strictly round robin format.

What a perfect opportunity to dump the unloved by most EFL trophy (a money spinner merely for the finalists, and a glorified training session normally generating several injuries for the likes of us). Bin it, please.