Question for the music heads

[perth shrimper]

I loved the first album and found it provocative, emotional and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Then the second album came - again full of good tunes but nothing had changed, no new direction, production or styistic changes.

Then the third album......

No significant movement in any new direction whatsoever and to be honest i've become weary of them and haven't bought X&Y.

I understand that if it's not broke don't fix it.
I understand that bands don't have to change to be succesfull.

But i don't know why they're standing still.
Why?

 

[Kris]

I disagree actually. For me X&Y is a superb album and by far the best of the three. Parachutes and Rush of Blood... had some decent tunes but contained a lot of filler too, whereas X&Y hangs together as an album really well. In my opinion anyway.

 

[perth shrimper]

Sure, but that's not to do with the question.

Why are they standing still musically?

 

[Guest]

Possibly because they know that the brand of (dull) rock they play at the moment sells records so they have no desire to evolve their style or experiment as it may adversely affect their sales...

 

[Mad Cyril]

I'd rather sell 25 million albums and be accused of being dull than be critically acclaimed and skint.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (perth shrimper @ Feb. 17 2006,05:04)]Why are they standing still musically?

Think Mad Cyril has summed that up better than I could.

Also, think of the Paltrow effect if the rumours of 2 separate tour-buses & dividing lines backstage are to be believed. She's made him believe his own hype & he's gone from being in touch with his target audience to someone who's head is so far up his (& her) backside it's scary!

Loved Parachutes, thought A Rush of Blood was OK (but the singles were strange choices) & have only heard X&Y when the Mrs had had it on (although I had the misfortune of seeing them live on their outdoor tour last summer).

It would be great if they come back with Album 4 with something that is totally fresh & innovative, but can you see it happening? No chance!

 

[hexagon_sun]

I think you just have to accept that the vast majority of bands never progress musically. A lot of it is to with the A&R departments of record labels; most people just think of the A&R guys as the people who sign the bands but they actually remain a band's first point of contact with their label for however long they're with them and they're supposed to offer artistic support to bands. If a band isn't selling records then their label's A&R are going to try and steer them in a more commercially viable dirction. If a band is shifting the kind of units that Coldplay are, then the label is just going to want more of the same. The fans love them, the mainstream critics love them, they're probably very comfortble in just about every way so why risk all that?

Sad though it is, very few bands these days have the creative drive to take risks and challenge their audience. Love them or hate them, you have to admire Radiohead for following up a massively acclaimed hit album with a prog rock mini-epic and then just as everyone had adjusted to their new sound, they give us 2 albums in quick succession with very little guitars and a whole lot of knob twiddling. Shame they haven't inspired more people to do the same.

 

[shrimperman]

id agree with most points to a certain degree, however i think there lack of creative invention since they first became successful is because they monopolise there particular market. When you have no competition to push you then you became satisfied with the level you are currently at and have no desire to progress. Ironic with all this talk of James Blunt because IMO he is possibly the closest yet to gain a share of there market. Out of interest, i would also put the doves also in this category however they have yet to get the mainstream recognition they have deserved after years of hard work.

 

[hexagon_sun]

Quote[/b] (shrimperman @ Feb. 17 2006,10:02)]Out of interest, i would also put the doves also in this category however they have yet to get the mainstream recognition they have deserved after years of hard work.

Let's face it, as far as our aesthetically obsessed society is concerned, Doves fall desperately short in the image stakes. Shoot me down if you think I'm wrong but I stand by this claim - if Doves had a pretty boy singer they'd be on a par with Coldplay by now. Not only do they appeal to fans of Coldplay's style of MOR alt. rock, but they've also tapped into the 'geezer' market who are starting to get a bit sick of Oasis' sub-par nonsense but find Chris Martin a bit too fey.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (hexagon_sun @ Feb. 17 2006,10:17)]

Quote[/b] (shrimperman @ Feb. 17 2006,10:02)]Out of interest, i would also put the doves also in this category however they have yet to get the mainstream recognition they have deserved after years of hard work.

Let's face it, as far as our aesthetically obsessed society is concerned, Doves fall desperately short in the image stakes. Shoot me down if you think I'm wrong but I stand by this claim - if Doves had a pretty boy singer they'd be on a par with Coldplay by now. Not only do they appeal to fans of Coldplay's style of MOR alt. rock, but they've also tapped into the 'geezer' market who are starting to get a bit sick of Oasis' sub-par nonsense but find Chris Martin a bit too fey.

H_S, I've agreed with 99% of your postings re music this week but I can't believe you lump Doves in with Coldplay. Have you ever seen them live? The raw energy & emotion that they put into their live sets, pushes them far apart from the piano dross of Mr Martin & his contemporaries.

Doves are defintely up there as one of the best LIVE bands this country has, OK I maybe concede that on record they lose some of their verve (particularly on the last album) but they are immense.

Also, a small point on yor post re the record label demanding more of the same to shift units. Interesting point to remember is that Parlophone are home to both Radiohead & Coldplay so I'd say it must be something to do with Thom Yorke's insistence that they can do something more diverse.

 

[shrimperman]

Quote[/b] (hexagon_sun @ Feb. 17 2006,10:17)]

Quote[/b] (shrimperman @ Feb. 17 2006,10:02)]Out of interest, i would also put the doves also in this category however they have yet to get the mainstream recognition they have deserved after years of hard work.

Let's face it, as far as our aesthetically obsessed society is concerned, Doves fall desperately short in the image stakes. Shoot me down if you think I'm wrong but I stand by this claim - if Doves had a pretty boy singer they'd be on a par with Coldplay by now. Not only do they appeal to fans of Coldplay's style of MOR alt. rock, but they've also tapped into the 'geezer' market who are starting to get a bit sick of Oasis' sub-par nonsense but find Chris Martin a bit too fey.

agree entirely

 

[hexagon_sun]

Quote[/b] (glasgowsufc @ Feb. 17 2006,10:25)]

Quote[/b] (hexagon_sun @ Feb. 17 2006,10:17)]

Quote[/b] (shrimperman @ Feb. 17 2006,10:02)]Out of interest, i would also put the doves also in this category however they have yet to get the mainstream recognition they have deserved after years of hard work.

Let's face it, as far as our aesthetically obsessed society is concerned, Doves fall desperately short in the image stakes. Shoot me down if you think I'm wrong but I stand by this claim - if Doves had a pretty boy singer they'd be on a par with Coldplay by now. Not only do they appeal to fans of Coldplay's style of MOR alt. rock, but they've also tapped into the 'geezer' market who are starting to get a bit sick of Oasis' sub-par nonsense but find Chris Martin a bit too fey.

H_S, I've agreed with 99% of your postings re music this week but I can't believe you lump Doves in with Coldplay. Have you ever seen them live? The raw energy & emotion that they put into their live sets, pushes them far apart from the piano dross of Mr Martin & his contemporaries.

Doves are defintely up there as one of the best LIVE bands this country has, OK I maybe concede that on record they lose some of their verve (particularly on the last album) but they are immense.

Also, a small point on yor post re the record label demanding more of the same to shift units. Interesting point to remember is that Parlophone are home to both Radiohead & Coldplay so I'd say it must be something to do with Thom Yorke's insistence that they can do something more diverse.

sh!t no - I wasn't lumping Doves in with Coldplay. Merely saying that;

A. they could sell as many records as Coldplay if they had a frontman with the looks and charisma of Sir Christopher of Martin, heir to the Duchy of U2-dom

and B. that musically, they should appeal to people who like Coldplay if they were prepared to give them a go

I'm well aware that Doves are a far superior band.

You're right about Parlophone of course, but I bet Radiohead had to really fight to have "Paranoid Android" released as the lead single over "No Surprises". Once "OK Computer" had sold a few million I'm sure Parlophone were happy to give them all the creative freedom they wanted.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (glasgowsufc @ Feb. 17 2006,09:32)]The Paltrow effect... being so far up her backside...

I can think of worse places to be...

 

[Firestorm]

Two words

Coldplay why ?


Nothing new nothing innovative, this decades Simply red

 

[Kris]

Quote[/b] (perth shrimper @ Feb. 17 2006,05:04)]Sure, but that's not to do with the question.

Why are they standing still musically?

Well, you said yourself that you haven't bought X&Y so I don't think it's a fair comment to accuse Coldplay of "standing still musically".

For me, X&Y IS actually a step forward musically, albeit a subtle one. It's a more polished, confident sound and the album is a more cohesive effort than its predecessors.

Besides, surely it's ultimately about the songs? What are Coldplay supposed to do, make a drum n bass album? While I admire the likes of Radiohead for experimenting, for me the songs themselves are what should shape a record, not the production - and I don't believe for a minute there are any Radiohead fans that prefer Kid A (as bold as it was) to OK Computer.

And in my opinion X&Y contains a fine collection of pop songs.

 

[hexagon_sun]

Quote[/b] (Kris @ Feb. 17 2006,17:06)]While I admire the likes of Radiohead for experimenting, for me the songs themselves are what should shape a record, not the production - and I don't believe for a minute there are any Radiohead fans that prefer Kid A (as bold as it was) to OK Computer.

I do - IMO, Radiohead have improved with every album. I don't like "Pablo Honey" at all, I only own "The Bends" for "Street Spirit", I really like "OK Computer" but a few tracks aren't that great and it's starting to date a little. From "Kid A" onwards they've been untouchable, the best band in the country. "Hail to the Thief' is too great for words.

Also, I disagree that production is a less valid reason to judge an album than songs (Daft Punk anyone?). My favourite Radiohead song is "Idioteque" - can't imagine it would stand up well as a song if it was performed unplugged but it's a stunning peice of music production.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (hexagon_sun @ Feb. 17 2006,17:13)]I only own "The Bends" for "Street Spirit"

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!

High & Dry
Fake Plastic Trees

& one of the best Radiohead songs ever IMHO.....

Just

At the very least these tracks make The Bends a candidate for Top 10 Album of All-Time for the next 50 years at least.

Funnily enough, Street Spirit is my least fave single off The Bends, but I guess that's coz it's so very overplayed on the various Indie Music channels on Sky, particularly VH2.

I also probably do like Kid A more than OK Computer too, you hear something new in it with each listen, OK Computer did that for a lot of plays but not any more.

 

[hexagon_sun]

Quote[/b] (glasgowsufc @ Feb. 17 2006,17:17)]

Quote[/b] (hexagon_sun @ Feb. 17 2006,17:13)]I only own "The Bends" for "Street Spirit"

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!

High & Dry
Fake Plastic Trees

& one of the best Radiohead songs ever IMHO.....

Just

At the very least these tracks make The Bends a candidate for Top 10 Album of All-Time for the next 50 years at least.

IMO those songs aren't much better than what Coldplay offer - average alternative rock. And "The Bends" wouldn't make my top 50 of the 90s never mind of all time.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

Just a couple of things I'd like to add to this

Firstly in response to the whole Doves being better live (i've seen neither so can't say for myself, but...) the style of Coldplay's music doesn't allow them to be full of energy on stage. Their songs are slow and downbeat, you can't go nuts for it, I went to the green day gig and 50% of the reason that that was one of the best nights of my life was the vibrant energy BJA puts into the performance, because the music allows it to. I can't imagine Coldplay being that good at getting the crowd going, because the depressing music just won't allow it.

And the reason for Coldplay's staticness in my opinion is that they've found a formula and are just trying to perfect it. Logically, X&Y should be better than ROBTTH, in turn better than Parachutes. But i just don't agree with that logic, because it's so so samey, it's effectively the same songs with only slight changes and lyrical differences. I find when i hear one of their songs i can't tell which one it is. that's surely not the sign of a good, well-accomplished band?

If they do take a break, God i hope Martin doesn't start appearing on all these shows and doing all these things trying to make him seem like Jesus or getting involved in politics like Bono. Just take time out, try out a couple of different formulae and hopefully produce something as innovative as Parachutes was...for the sake of British music, PLEASE!!

 

[Ron Manager]

Dull, uninspired but rich and famous beyond belief so I'm sure they couldn't give a monkeys what I think about them. They give pleasure to millions across the world so fair play to them and who are we to belittle those people who enjoy their music? Just don't ask me to sit and listen to their dirge of a last album ever again.

Oh, and The Bends is far and away the best Radiohead album IMO.