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Hong Kong Blue

Guest
Flahavan 5 - poor positioning for goal, beaten by a header which hit the bar as well. Didn't make a save. No doubt some people will still somehow make him man of the match.
Hunt 5 - struggled with Huckerby
Wilson 7 - steady enough, but I still think he tries to avoid responsibility
Barrett 6 - solid defensively, but repeatedly got over ambitous and passed the ball to a Norwich shirt or straight out of play
Prior 8 - a rock against his former team, caught on the ball once (for a change!) but overwise flawless
Maher 8 - responding well to being challenged for a place in the team. Good ball forward(!) for Freddy's goal
Bentley 8 - such a key performer for us, took his goal exceptionally
Guttridge 8 - pre-season has done him the world of good, now he's fit he's looking a very handy acquisition
Lawson 7 - some nice touches before limping off, but can he kick on?
Eastwood 8 - quality, took his goal exceptionally, beating the England no.2 from an acute angle. A threat throughout.
Kevin Gray 5 - presumably we're not going to sign this guy and his cousin, Wayne, the ex-schoolboy sprinter will play next week

Subs
Jupp 7 (on for Hunt, approx 30min), handled Huckerby well
Daniel Woodyard(?) (on for Lawson, apporx 35 min), no rating as we won't see him again.
Griemink 7 (on for Flahavan, ht) - commanded his area and kept a clean sheet
Hunt - see above (on for Maher, approx 60min). Strange sub, why play Hunt out of position, when central midfield is the only position where we've got plenty of options?
Edwards 6 (on for Prior, approx 60 min), I think he touched the ball

Other subs weren't on very long and didn't make an impression.

All in all a good workout. Its just a shame we're in division 3, and not 2, as we can clearly beat these div 2 sides!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ July 24 2005,00:35)]Flahavan 5 - poor positioning for goal, beaten by a header which hit the bar as well. Didn't make a save. No doubt some people will still somehow make him man of the match.
I can't say whether or not Flavs was out of position because I was on the half way line in the West and didn't really have a good angle to see it from. I will therefore have to defer to your better positioning!

However, I think it would be hard to criticise because the shot was just about perfectly struck, and i'm sure Flavs was expecting the shot to come from Huckerby given the way the player who took the touch was postioned. Let's face it, sometimes you just have to admit the oposition did well, evidenced by the fact it got a round of applause from the home fans. Even I applauded and I don't think I have ever done that in my life before.

However, I don't think it is fair to mark Flavs down for not making a save. Rather, I would praise the defence for ensuring he didn't have a save to make.
 
As i said, Tilsons decision to allienate Dudfield will haunt him. Wayne Gray is sadly lacking in the skill department and as we seem to be playing good football on the ground we have kept the wrong bloke for this division. Unfortunately Ron Martin likes to be seen as in charge so i doubt an improved offer and a truce can be sorted out with Dudfield even though Freddy is desperate for an able partner!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (wiggy @ July 24 2005,10:52)]... Ron Martin likes to be seen as in charge so i doubt an improved offer and a truce can be sorted out with Dudfield even though Freddy is desperate for an able partner!
Wiggy, I look forward to seeing you dig deep into your purse and find this fabled money for an "improved offer". And then pick up any financial glossary and find out what "salary capping" means to small clubs like Southend United ... I think you'll be surprised.

WS
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (londonblue @ July 24 2005,10:48)]However, I don't think it is fair to mark Flavs down for not making a save. Rather, I would praise the defence for ensuring he didn't have a save to make.
At last!! Someone with a bit of sense ...

WS
 
He can dig it up if he wants, unfortunately his stuborness won't allow him to do this. Wayne Gray is a bench warmer at best in this division and now we are getting desperate, Lawson at 18 years old is a better option but to let Lawrie go is a cardinal sin. 99% of people on here agree with that which is unusual, why keep on about wage capping, he is gonna have to find it for a new striker so why not for Dudfield.
 
Wiggy. Now you're back online (and your little bulb is yellow!) please can you explain how the quote from Beckett about being offered a great deal from Southend and also that Oldham admitted they offered him less than we did squares with your belief that we aren't offering enough money?

Until a decent repsonse is forthcoming you will have very little credibility on this message board.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (wiggy @ July 24 2005,09:52)]Tilson's decision to allienate Dudfield will haunt him. Wayne Gray is sadly lacking in the skill department and as we seem to be playing good football on the ground we have kept the wrong bloke for this division.
I think you're right Wiggy.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (wiggy @ July 24 2005,11:09)]He can dig it up if he wants, unfortunately his stuborness won't allow him to do this. Wayne Gray is a bench warmer at best in this division and now we are getting desperate, Lawson at 18 years old is a better option but to let Lawrie go is a cardinal sin. 99% of people on here agree with that which is unusual, why keep on about wage capping, he is gonna have to find it for a new striker so why not for Dudfield.
Wiggy, I can't see how you can actually accuse Ron Martin of being stubborn without actually knowing the fellow. Perhaps you should validate your statement with a confirmation that it is of YOUR opinion that Martin is a stubborn man. Or at least some up with come actual evidence to back up your statement. But unfortunately you never do. Martin may now be the chairman of the club but that doesn't mean that he is expected to dig into his OWN finances to support the club. He and his cohorts have been working hard over the last few years to try and ensure that the club can support itself rather than relying on hand-outs. We're not there yet but I would expect that we're far closer than we've been for years.

Why keep on about salary capping? Because it affects each and every football club in the Football League, Wiggy, including Southend United. You may may or may not know that each club is RESTRICTED to 60% of turnover to spend of salaries ACROSS THE BOARD, not just on the pitch. Exceed that and the club can be fined heavily by the Football League.

Wiggy, I think you need to take a look at how budgets work. Clubs that throw money about to bring supposed better players to their clubs have hardly been successful. Think about it for once : Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Stockport County, Wrexham, Franchise FC. Clubs have been forced into administration for living beyond those means. Wiggy, it seems that you're happy to see Southend United throw away all its hard work and return to the dark days of the latter 90s?

WS
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ July 24 2005,00:35)]Kevin Gray 5 - presumably we're not going to sign this guy and his cousin, Wayne, the ex-schoolboy sprinter will play next week
?!!! Was that KEVIN Gray yesterday? I wasn't that impressed whichever one it was.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ July 24 2005,10:27)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (wiggy @ July 24 2005,11:09)]He can dig it up if he wants, unfortunately his stuborness won't allow him to do this. Wayne Gray is a bench warmer at best in this division and now we are getting desperate, Lawson at 18 years old is a better option but to let Lawrie go is a cardinal sin. 99% of people on here agree with that which is unusual, why keep on about wage capping, he is gonna have to find it for a new striker so why not for Dudfield.
Wiggy, I can't see how you can actually accuse Ron Martin of being stubborn without actually knowing the fellow. Perhaps you should validate your statement with a confirmation that it is of YOUR opinion that Martin is a stubborn man. Or at least some up with come actual evidence to back up your statement. But unfortunately you never do. Martin may now be the chairman of the club but that doesn't mean that he is expected to dig into his OWN finances to support the club. He and his cohorts have been working hard over the last few years to try and ensure that the club can support itself rather than relying on hand-outs. We're not there yet but I would expect that we're far closer than we've been for years.

Why keep on about salary capping? Because it affects each and every football club in the Football League, Wiggy, including Southend United. You may may or may not know that each club is RESTRICTED to 60% of turnover to spend of salaries ACROSS THE BOARD, not just on the pitch. Exceed that and the club can be fined heavily by the Football League.

Wiggy, I think you need to take a look at how budgets work. Clubs that throw money about to bring supposed better players to their clubs have hardly been successful. Think about it for once : Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Stockport County, Wrexham, Franchise FC. Clubs have been forced into administration for living beyond those means. Wiggy, it seems that you're happy to see Southend United throw away all its hard work and return to the dark days of the latter 90s?

WS
As much as I agree with you, I think the rule is 75% of turnover for all salaries where playing staff may not exceed 60%. Although I may be wrong here.

The thing is also that it is budgeted turnover, not last season's turnover. So, because we have (financially) had two very successful seasons they count for nothing when we budget for season 2005/6. In fact, our budgeted income is probably one of the lowest in this division if the club are going to be honest about it. There are many clubs in this division that have much better gates than us and therefore have much greater expected turnover.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (londonblue @ July 24 2005,11:34)]As much as I agree with you, I think the rule is 75% of turnover for all salaries where playing staff may not exceed 60%. Although I may be wrong here.
Nope. I think you the one who is right. That still doesn't warrant the demand to throw money about ...

WS
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (londonblue @ July 24 2005,11:34)]The thing is also that it is budgeted turnover, not last season's turnover. So, because we have (financially) had two very successful seasons they count for nothing when we budget for season 2005/6. In fact, our budgeted income is probably one of the lowest in this division if the club are going to be honest about it. There are many clubs in this division that have much better gates than us and therefore have much greater expected turnover.
This is something that Wiggy clearly fails -- refuses? -- to understand at the moment ...

WS
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ July 24 2005,10:35)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (londonblue @ July 24 2005,11:34)]As much as I agree with you, I think the rule is 75% of turnover for all salaries where playing staff may not exceed 60%. Although I may be wrong here.
Nope. I think you the one who is right. That still doesn't warrant the demand to throw money about ...

WS
Absolutely. I see no point in paying over the odds just to secure the services of one player. All that will do is cause resentment in the squad.

One other point about budgets is that it does hinder clubs like ours. We have had two very successful years but are restricted on how this extra money can be spent. We can't spend more on the squad because we aren't allowed to.

Don't also forget that we have to keep some back for emergencies through the season. If we were at the maximum wages we could be allowed right now it would leave no room for bringing in players in January should the need arise.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (londonblue @ July 24 2005,10:13)]Wiggy. Now you're back online (and your little bulb is yellow!) please can you explain how the quote from Beckett about being offered a great deal from Southend and also that Oldham admitted they offered him less than we did squares with your belief that we aren't offering enough money?

Until a decent repsonse is forthcoming you will have very little credibility on this message board.
Wiggy. Your silence is deafening.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (londonblue @ July 24 2005,11:42)]Absolutely. I see no point in paying over the odds just to secure the services of one player. All that will do is cause resentment in the squad.
Indeed. We did that before back in the late 90s and it damn near destroyed the club. Perhaps Wiggy has a bet on that Southend United will be forced into administration during the 2005/06 season? He/she clearly has no comprehension of the budgetary requirements ...

WS
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (londonblue @ July 24 2005,11:43)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (londonblue @ July 24 2005,10:13)]
Until a decent repsonse is forthcoming you will have very little credibility on this message board.
Wiggy. Your silence is deafening.
I wouldn't waste your time, mate. He/she only comes on here to weave some sort of controversy and then sits back hoping that we'll all turn against each other and the SZ community will self-destruct. Luckily I think everyone is beginning to wise up to him/her ...

WS
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ July 24 2005,10:01)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (londonblue @ July 24 2005,10:48)]However, I don't think it is fair to mark Flavs down for not making a save. Rather, I would praise the defence for ensuring he didn't have a save to make.
At last!! Someone with a bit of sense ...

WS
I'd actually be more inclined on this occasion to praise the midfield for protecting the defence and ensuring that Norwich didn't actually test the defence that much.

Flahavan did actually have a save to make, as we conceded a goal, nearly two (they hit the bar), neither of which he got anywhere near. I'm marking him down on that, rather than his inactivity for the rest of the half. It was a well taken goal, but that far post was gaping invitingly open.
 
Are people saying offering Dudfield a new contract would break the bank?
rock.gif
?

The reason Dudfield isnt with the club is a combination of Tilson and Martin not thinking he's good enough. I'm sure the club has the finances in place to offer a revised deal but obviously dont think he's worth it.

The Wayne Gray argument doesnt hold up beacuse he's still under contract so we're not going to release him.

People bleating on here about breaking wage structures, we're talking about Dudfield here he wont be asking for much more than he's last contract.

Im sure Tilson and Martin believe they can get more for there money. This question is yet to be answered and no one can answer it until we see how things develop. But this is what the manager and chairman get paid to do so lets sit tight and see what happens.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ July 24 2005,13:00)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ July 24 2005,10:01)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (londonblue @ July 24 2005,10:48)]However, I don't think it is fair to mark Flavs down for not making a save. Rather, I would praise the defence for ensuring he didn't have a save to make.
At last!! Someone with a bit of sense ...

WS
I'd actually be more inclined on this occasion to praise the midfield for protecting the defence and ensuring that Norwich didn't actually test the defence that much.

Flahavan did actually have a save to make, as we conceded a goal, nearly two (they hit the bar), neither of which he got anywhere near. I'm marking him down on that, rather than his inactivity for the rest of the half. It was a well taken goal, but that far post was gaping invitingly open.

We have a quality keeper. So please can we just be happy for that, and accept he's height will cause us some issues, as does Barts handling at times. I'm afraid Green showed you needed height to make the kinda save Darryl couldnt in the 2nd half. Darrly is suspect on crosses and lobs, but he has other attributes which outweigh these two floors, this is why he's our number 1
 
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