Rioting - discuss

[Tangled up in Blue]

An article written by the Bard of Barking, Mr Billy Bragg for NME (who only published an abringed version)​

There is a few bits of this I think are interesting:

• This idea that society, and that's most of us on here, have had a 'WTF?' moment with the riots.. Whereby we don't understand what we have seen, and because of that we condemn everyone. I think this is true. What we saw, we don't and can't comprehend then and as such it is difficult to rationalise what our response should be. I've struggled with mine.
• The idea that this generation is being almost set up by the current government as 'the enemy'. I really don't want to believe this...
• The fact that there is going to be a generation who are worse off than their parents. I think this is something that is going to affect middle-class kids too. I look at my parents (who are by no means rich!) and can't imagine owning a house - ie no morgage - having savings, paying for kids to go through uni etc.
• I love the comments on how music is so much better than tweeting and blogging! I love a good political song and many are timeless - Gutherie still has some good and relevant stuff to say.
• Last line, brilliant: Some of you who are reading this need to produce songs with spirit that tell us something we don’t know about what the **** happened last week, how we got to such a place and where you think we should be going from here.

Clearly the best post on this thread.:thumbsup:

 

[Swiss Tony]

It's a long way from Dorset to Barking Billyboy.

 

[pickledseal]

It's a long way from Dorset to Barking Billyboy.

And hence he includes himself in the the WTF. If he claimed to have some local/inside knowledge, I think that would be fair criticism. As he famously said, "I sold my house in London, not my principles" and his words and actions ever since moving his young family to the countryside have stood true to that.

 

[pickledseal]

Some decent stuff in here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/05/kenneth-clarke-riots-penal-system

Interesting that 75% if rioters already had a record.

"It's about having a job, a strong family, a decent education and ... an attitude that shares in the values of mainstream society."

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Some decent stuff in here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/05/kenneth-clarke-riots-penal-system

Interesting that 75% if rioters already had a record.

Yeah finally some hard facts are beginning to emerge about the rioters.I look forward to the Guardian's combined study with the LSE to provide more background information.Some of the stuff on the Detroit riots was fascinating too.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I look forward to the Guardian's combined study with the LSE to provide more background informatio.Some of the stuff on the Detroit riots was fascinating too.

We can be sure of some unbiased analysis there, can't we? I'm sure that neither of these august bodies will be advancing any sort of agenda.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

We can be sure of some unbiased analysis there, can't we? I'm sure that neither of these august bodies will be advancing any sort of agenda.

You seem to have managed to survive the LSE with your own particular bias intact.:winking:

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Not sure about the methodology used in that grauniad piece by Clarke - those charged with rioting offences aren't necessarily representative of those rioting in general. Have police targetted known criminals in making arrests, in the knowledge that the courts will give them tougher punishments than first time offenders? Given the demands on police time, will first time offenders have been let off with a slap on the wrist? Will the police have just targetted those perpetrating the most serious offences? Maybe it worked the other way and the police have just picked off the weakest targets?

Still, it's probably better than relying on a joint study of tweets carried out between the Guardian and some jumped up poly. They should have got a reputable academic body, such as Birmingham poly involved, to co-operate with the Yellow Advertiser.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

From the Old Holborn blog:

Last night, I watched the Radio 4 debate on the Birmingham riots. An invited “panel of experts” along with an “invited audience” chewed the collective cud whilst ticking off all the usual “diversity boxes”. Lessens must be learned, poverty is to blame, people are not respected, cultures are clashing.

I gave up in the end. It was fairly obvious that no one was going to engage a little common sense. All were too frightened of standing on someone else’s eggshells, laid out more meticulously than any iron curtain minefield. The Statisticians are busy analysing the figures. Most looters were aged over 29, only 50% were black, etc etc etc, whilst swathes of the audience, invited because of their vested interests lobbied for more funding, fewer cuts, a greater slice of the pie. Not one questioned why an unemployed black kid/white kid smashed a window to grab a 52” TV. Sure, the opportunity was there. An entire block of youth permanently glued to their blackberries didn’t have to wait long to work out the best places to hit. Texts and tweets flew as the mice evaded the Police cats. Again, WHY did they feel they could just smash open a shop and loot the contents? After an earthquake, a Tsunami AND a nuclear meltdown, not one single Japanese looted. They collected discarded family photos and pets and tried to reunite them with their owners. Quite simply, the reason shops were looted was down to two causes.

• Opportunity. A black man had once again been shot by the Police, so the black community were “expected” to smash up and loot. Precedents had been set and the Police could not intervene to protect businesses, property or innocent people caught up in the mob. To do so would be “victimisation” of “an oppressed minority”, regardless of the terror they were inflicting on their fellow citizens.
• Entitlement – the same entitlement that was taught from birth by sociologists. Entitlement to “respect” regardless of behaviour. Entitlement to “certificates” though not one scrap of achievement endured. Entitlement to benefits, housing, free money, free welfare, cultural status, a loud voice. I’m “entitled” to take what isn’t mine because that is what I have been programmed to do my entire life.

​

They are a feral underclass because our Political masters MADE them an underclass whilst telling them they were equal to hard working, honest, law abiding, ambitious citizens. They were entitled to all the trappings of success because no one had the courage to tell them they were not successful, they had failed. Their re offending rates are high because it the behaviour they have been taught. In the rush to not to offend, to award respect where none is due, to indulge in the name of diversity, we forget to tell people what is right and what is wrong. In case they didn’t like what they heard.

You will not remove this underclass by prison sentences or “rehabilitation” or yet more “diversity”. You will only remove them by removing their entitlements. Refuse to work? Face the consequences – no money, no support. Refuse to study? Face the consequences. The only work you will ever find is manual, minimum wage. No Disneyland for you, no Nike trainers, no iPhone. People who work hard can have them but you have not earned the entitlement to what they have until you have made the effort they have made. They have to be shown the cold, hard facts that all of our ancestors knew. You get out of society what you put in, no more, no less.

The sooner we start, the better, because once this generation have run out of shops to loot, they will come for YOUR stuff because they genuinely believe, as they were taught by endless armies of bearded sandal wearing Lesbians, that they’re entitled to it.

 

[osymandus]

So this bank robbery and rape didnt happen after the Earthquake then ?
http://badboyinjapan.blogspot.com/2011/03/post-earthquake-looting-in-japan.html

I just heard on television a line regarding Feral underclass , they are mirroring the feral upper class who are taking as much as they can where they can .
Drawing lines in the sand and blaming stereotypes dosnt work . If this blogger had bothered to check even a small part of organised crime history or even social history they would know these people are already ostracised , they don;t make their "big" money from the benefits but from the criminal activities they are already engaging in . Drive them further out they get better organised . I thought "rightwinders" would be all for keep your friends close but your enemies closer.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Am I a rightwinder? It sounds like fun.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not sure about the methodology used in that grauniad piece by Clarke - those charged with rioting offences aren't necessarily representative of those rioting in general. Have police targetted known criminals in making arrests, in the knowledge that the courts will give them tougher punishments than first time offenders? Given the demands on police time, will first time offenders have been let off with a slap on the wrist? Will the police have just targetted those perpetrating the most serious offences? Maybe it worked the other way and the police have just picked off the weakest targets?

Still, it's probably better than relying on a joint study of tweets carried out between the Guardian and some jumped up poly. They should have got a reputable academic body, such as Birmingham poly involved, to co-operate with the Yellow Advertiser.

I think you'll find that the august body you refer to, changed its name to the University of the Central Midlands(UCM),back in the early 90's. :winking:

 

[MK Shrimper]

I think you'll find that the august body you refer to, changed its name to the University of the Central Midlands(UCM),back in the early 90's. :winking:

University of Central England, and now Birmingham City University.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

University of Central England, and now Birmingham City University.

Has it appeared on watchdog as one of those dodgy businesses that keeps changing it name?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

University of Central England, and now Birmingham City University.

Thought so.Should have checked.:dunce:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Has it appeared on watchdog as one of those dodgy businesses that keeps changing it name?

I keep waiting for their appearance on University Challenge in vain.:sad:I remember a memorable appearance by Aston(joint union with the Poly in the early 70's)where their (incorrect) response to almost every question was ducks.:hilarious:

 

[Pubey]

I keep waiting for their appearance on University Challenge in vain.:sad:I remember a memorable appearance by Aston(joint union with the Poly in the early 70's)where their (incorrect) response to almost every question was ducks.:hilarious:

I bet those jokers are living the dream now.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I bet those jokers are living the dream now.

Probably about to retire on their index linked pensions I hope.:winking:

 

[OldBlueLady]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/men-guilty-stealing-student-riots-104950906.html
There are times when I sit back in anticipation at what is about to befall these parasites!

 

[Smudger]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/men-guilty-stealing-student-riots-104950906.html
There are times when I sit back in anticipation at what is about to befall these parasites!

"You're sending an innocent man down bruv, innit."

Sums up what a mess the Labour government made of this country really. Shame Blair and Brown can't go to jail for crimes against the UK......