RIP Dalian Atkinson

[southendkid]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07ncg1x

Listen to it.It was an eye-witness account.

In answer to your question, it tells me that the allegation is being investigated.

Is this like when an eye-witness claimed the spree shooter in Germany shouted 'Allahu Akbar' despite him not actually being a Muslim? Eye-witnesses are rarely reliable unless multiple people say the same thing, presumably if he was kicked there will be physical evidence the investigation will pick up on.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Is this like when an eye-witness claimed the spree shooter in Germany shouted 'Allahu Akbar' despite him not actually being a Muslim? Eye-witnesses are rarely reliable unless multiple people say the same thing, presumably if he was kicked there will be physical evidence the investigation will pick up on.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-shropshire-37119659


In the latest on this story, two police officers have been suspended while a criminal investigation into Monday's events, takes place.


Both officers have been served with "gross misconduct" notices and it would appear that more than one witness saw DA being assaulted on the ground by these policemen.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...investigated-over-dalian-atkinson-taser-death

 

[rigsby]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-shropshire-37119659


In the latest on this story, two police officers have been suspended while a criminal investigation into Monday's events, takes place.


Both officers have been served with "gross misconduct" notices and it would appear that more than one witness saw DA being assaulted on the ground by these policemen.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...investigated-over-dalian-atkinson-taser-death

So the moral of the story is don't resist arrest.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So the moral of the story is don't resist arrest.

It would be unwise to speculate on why DA's actions might have been misconstrued as "resisting arrest".

However,it would certainly appear to be the case, that firing a Taser gun at him three times constitutes excessive use of force.

Which is,presumably, precisely why the officers concerned have been suspended while a criminal investigation takes place and also served with "gross misconduct" notices.

 

[rigsby]

It would be unwise to speculate on why DA's actions might have been misconstrued as "resisting arrest".

However,it would certainly appear to be the case, that firing a Taser gun at him three times constitutes excessive use of force.

Which is,presumably, precisely why the officers concerned have been suspended while a criminal investigation takes place and also served with "gross misconduct" notices.

Can you see the hypocrisy in your post :winking:

Why is firing a Taser 3 times excessive. Never stopped that idiot at Leytonstone tube station when he was busy stabbing people.

You could argue that had the police been properly armed with guns then DA might have complied and still been alive.

Last night on Channel 4 there was an excellent documentary about an armed copper who went on trial for murder. Watch it if you can.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Can you see the hypocrisy in your post :winking:

Why is firing a Taser 3 times excessive. Never stopped that idiot at Leytonstone tube station when he was busy stabbing people.

You could argue that had the police been properly armed with guns then DA might have complied and still been alive.

Last night on Channel 4 there was an excellent documentary about an armed copper who went on trial for murder. Watch it if you can.

Tbh,I don't know a lot about Tasers.

From what I've read though, I would have thought that one shot would normally be sufficient to down a man from close range.

I didn't see the C4 programme you mention but I'm aware of it.Might give it a watch tonight.

 

[rigsby]

Tbh,I don't know a lot about Tasers.

From what I've read though, I would have thought that one shot would normally be sufficient to down a man from close range.

I didn't see the C4 programme you mention but I'm aware of it.Might give it a watch tonight.

See post 12.

If someone's determined enough the police would not stop them with one shot from a taser.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Saw the C4 programme you recommended.

FWIW,I have a lot lot more time for the Jean Charles de Menezes's of this world than someone who helped to "eliminate" him by "mistake."

 

[rigsby]

Saw the C4 programme you recommended.

FWIW,I have a lot lot more time for the Jean Charles de Menezes's of this world than someone who helped to "eliminate" him by "mistake."

Who said I was taking sides, I just thought the programme was well made. Not my fault you don't like armed Police 'job' terminology.

Who do you think, if anybody, should be prosecuted for the Menezes mistake.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Who said I was taking sides, I just thought the programme was well made. Not my fault you don't like armed Police 'job' terminology.

Who do you think, if anybody, should be prosecuted for the Menezes mistake.

I didn't imply that you were taking sides, though you're certainly right to infer that I didn't like the "job" terminology used by the Police marksman throughout, (who seemed to enjoy his work a little bit too much for my liking).

It was however,I agree,an interesting programme,(though with a bias towards the Police marksman's POV).

The Mensezes "mistake" trial/inquest has already taken place.

An innocent,unarmed man was executed by the Police in a public place.That has to be a miscarriage of justice.Nobody was found responsible for it.

It has no bearing on the DA affair, except that in the light of the wholly unjustified Mensezes execution, public confidence in armed police has understandly been diminished.

 

[rigsby]

I didn't imply that you were taking sides, though you're certainly right to infer that I didn't like the "job" terminology used by the Police marksman throughout, (who seemed to enjoy his work a little bit too much for my liking).

It was however,I agree,an interesting programme,(though with a bias towards the Police marksman's POV).

The Mensezes "mistake" trial/inquest has already taken place.

An innocent,unarmed man was executed by the Police in a public place.That has to be a miscarriage of justice.Nobody was found responsible for it.

It has no bearing on the DA affair, except that in the light of the wholly unjustified Mensezes execution, public confidence in armed police has understandly been diminished.

'Job' terminology is standard in uniformed public service, it helps us sleep at night (hopefully). So you can't judge him on that.

Your Mensezes points are valid and we now live in a world where someone has to take the blame for every situation. But I would still like to know who was responsible in this case.

The men who shot him.... under orders
The woman in charge who gave the orders.... Clarissa Dick (schoolboy snigger)
The one person who was on surveillance and wrongly identified him leaving the block of flats.
The police chief who never allowed enough people for such an operation.
The Government for not giving the police chief enough resources.
The terrorists who had bombed the Tube just weeks before
The terrorists on the tube who's bombs had not detonated that week, to create an extraordinary situation for the police.
Preachers of hate or people who allowed preachers of hate.

It was a very long road before someone pressed a gun against his head that sad day.

 

[Benfleet A1]

'Job' terminology is standard in uniformed public service, it helps us sleep at night (hopefully). So you can't judge him on that.

Your Mensezes points are valid and we now live in a world where someone has to take the blame for every situation. But I would still like to know who was responsible in this case.

The men who shot him.... under orders
The woman in charge who gave the orders.... Clarissa Dick (schoolboy snigger)
The one person who was on surveillance and wrongly identified him leaving the block of flats.
The police chief who never allowed enough people for such an operation.
The Government for not giving the police chief enough resources.
The terrorists who had bombed the Tube just weeks before
The terrorists on the tube who's bombs had not detonated that week, to create an extraordinary situation for the police.
Preachers of hate or people who allowed preachers of hate.

It was a very long road before someone pressed a gun against his head that sad day.

Recently, we have agreed on very little but today we do. I can chuck a few answers into your questions. In no particular order, money, cuts, results from previous mistakes and jumping the gun due to, at the time, recent events. Dispite Patriots desire to see our government or police take a hit just for his own jollys, the question was never answered as to why, when challenged, he ran. It is perfectly simple anywhere in the world, if a person in authority is pointing a weapon at you and giving you a warning or instruction, then follow it to the letter. It more than likely wont end in being shot. At least in Europe anyway. And yes, I have had police point firearms at me on more than one occasion. Not pleasant but I'm still here to tell the tale for the very reason I gave above.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

'Job' terminology is standard in uniformed public service, it helps us sleep at night (hopefully). So you can't judge him on that.

Your Mensezes points are valid and we now live in a world where someone has to take the blame for every situation. But I would still like to know who was responsible in this case.

The men who shot him.... under orders
The woman in charge who gave the orders.... Clarissa Dick (schoolboy snigger)
The one person who was on surveillance and wrongly identified him leaving the block of flats.
The police chief who never allowed enough people for such an operation.
The Government for not giving the police chief enough resources.
The terrorists who had bombed the Tube just weeks before
The terrorists on the tube who's bombs had not detonated that week, to create an extraordinary situation for the police.
Preachers of hate or people who allowed preachers of hate.

It was a very long road before someone pressed a gun against his head that sad day.

Recently, we have agreed on very little but today we do. I can chuck a few answers into your questions. In no particular order, money, cuts, results from previous mistakes and jumping the gun due to, at the time, recent events. Dispite Patriots desire to see our government or police take a hit just for his own jollys, the question was never answered as to why, when challenged, he ran. It is perfectly simple anywhere in the world, if a person in authority is pointing a weapon at you and giving you a warning or instruction, then follow it to the letter. It more than likely wont end in being shot. At least in Europe anyway. And yes, I have had police point firearms at me on more than one occasion. Not pleasant but I'm still here to tell the tale for the very reason I gave above.

Jean Charles de Mensezes didn't run.He merely stood up.As I understand it, no armed police warning was given to him before he was shot seven times in the head.He was executed in cold blood in public.

 

[rigsby]

Jean Charles de Mensezes didn't run.He merely stood up.As I understand it, no armed police warning was given to him before he was shot seven times in the head.He was executed in cold blood in public.

He jumped the ticket barriers which only heightened the situation.

Suicide bombers in a public place will not be given a warning for obvious reasons.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

He jumped the ticket barriers which only heightened the situation.

No he didn't.He had an oyster card.Why would he? This claim-widely reported at the time- was later found to be untrue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

Suicide bombers in a public place will not be given a warning for obvious reasons.

The point is that Jean Charles de Menezes was not a suicide bomber.He was an innoncent,unarmed man who was executed by the Police.

 

[rigsby]

The point is that Jean Charles de Mensezes was not a suicide bomber.He was an innoncent,unarmed man who was executed by the Police.

Yes we all know that and we know why.

So if you cant give me an answer, how do you expect the police to improve.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yes we all know that and we know why.

So if you cant give me an answer, how do you expect the police to improve.

The point is that the Police made a tragic mistake in executing Jean Charles de Menezes.

This failure in policing was compounded by not bringing anyone to book for his murder.

That is precisely why the public now have so little confidence in the probity of armed police,as in the Dalian Atkinson case.

That is where we are now.It would be an error to start from anywhere else.

 

[rigsby]

The point is that the Police made a tragic mistake in executing Jean Charles de Menezes.

This failure in policing was compounded by not bringing anyone to book for his murder.

That is precisely why the public now have so little confidence in the probity of armed police,as in the Dalian Atkinson case.

That is where we are now.It would be an error to start from anywhere else.

How can a tragic mistake be a murder ?

How very left wing of you, always able to point a finger but never able to come up with a solution.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

How can a tragic mistake be a murder ?

How very left wing of you, always able to point a finger but never able to come up with a solution.

It was tantamount to a public execution, with seven shots fired to JC de Menezes' head at close range,without warning.

The solution to this self-evident failure in armed policing would have been to completely review Police intelligence procedures and for responsibility for Mr Menezes' death to have been admitted.

You seem to be completely ignoring the point that the failure to do so, is precisely what has rightly undermined public confidence in an armed policeforce,as the DA case has shown.