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Ron Martin - A disgrace!

I think we were about £3m in debt when Ron took over officially, some time in Summer 2000. But we had Roots Hall and B&L, some of the most valuable land around?

We are now what £17m+ in debt and own **** all. Heading back to league 2 and with a crumbling stadium and training facility to boot.

20 years later of chasing the "dream" and we are right back where we started and in a lot worse position, certainly financially and in terms of assets and our home. Yes we have had a couple of good years along the way. But wheres the progress, the new stadium, financial stability etc?

Yes he has somehow kept the plates spinning for this long (and to be fair should be acknowledged for) but for how much longer can this chasing of the "dream" continue, before ultimately everyone including our club, goes down in flames?...

I think this sums it all up very well, Rons had a good crack at it and we've had some glory on the way too but basically we are back where it all began and the core infrastructure of the club hasnt improved, in no way are we any better to have a crack at climbing the leagues again.

The embarrassing mess over the last managerial appointment is just the cherry on the cake for me, hoping the quick and easy appointment bond would do the trick and it didnt, it highlights that Its time for someone else to have a go, Ron did well, at times but ultimately he's run his race.

Obviously getting someone to have a go aint gonna be easy!
 
I think we were about £3m in debt when Ron took over officially, some time in Summer 2000. But we had Roots Hall and B&L, some of the most valuable land around?

We are now what £17m+ in debt and own **** all. Heading back to league 2 and with a crumbling stadium and training facility to boot.

20 years later of chasing the "dream" and we are right back where we started and in a lot worse position, certainly financially and in terms of assets and our home. Yes we have had a couple of good years along the way. But wheres the progress, the new stadium, financial stability etc?

Yes he has somehow kept the plates spinning for this long (and to be fair should be acknowledged for) but for how much longer can this chasing of the "dream" continue, before ultimately everyone including our club, goes down in flames?...


the last accounts Vic signed were to 31/7/97 (he resigned 19/5/98)



The club lost 559kthat year (down from 1.05M the previous year)

Share holders funds were 2.9M , which included over valued assets of at least 2.6M (see 1999)

Vic had steadily increased the asset values over the previous years accounts in order to reduce the book debt and make the club a more attractive proposition, by July 97 the assets were booked at 8M , with debts of 3.4M all due within 12 months , it was these debts which were dragging us down

in September 97 Vic mortgaged the Ground for 1.3M and sold Fixtures and fittings for 800K (and leased them back) - increasing the debt to 4.7M

2th May 98 the Training ground was sold by VJ to MD for 525K

On 26/1/99 RH was valued at 4M by and independent valuers , 2.6M lower Js book value

By the July 98 accts ( submitted late , 25/10/99) , the Creditors had not fully been cleared , leaving 3.2 M but the total assets had been reduced to 4.8M

The Ground was then sold for 4M in March 99

losses of 1.3M in 1998 , a further 2.3M in 1999 and 1.8M in 2000 meant that by the time the 2000 accounts were in (again late 7/11/01) we were already running a deficit 3.2M

We were losing money hand over fist in Vics final years , and borrowing from external sources , with a finite repayment plan, secured against over inflated assets meant that we were going nowhere fast .

Given that the spiralling footballing costs continued , to the extent that the main backers , Delancey opted out a few years later, it looks like we have done well to keep going for this long.......
 
I think we all need to remember that it is not Ron's fault that the stadium hasn't yet been built. I'm sure, given the choice, he would have much preferred for it to have been done and dusted back in 2008 but the credit crunch financial crisis in 2007 scuppered that.

It's also not his fault we fell from the CCC to L2 in 3 seasons. He has backed every single manager and on paper has taken decisions that we probably all would have done regarding players.

Finally, the fact that we have somehow dodged the winding up orders and stayed out of administration is nothing short of a bloody miracle in my eyes. In business, difficult decisions have to sometimes be taken, staff and suppliers go unpaid or are paid late, people are made redundant... football clubs are no different.

If we get through in 1 piece to FF, then he will benefit massively and I personally won't begrudge him a penny.

Whilst I don't really disagree with your views on the fall from grace on the pitch, although the financial mess off it (unpaid wages, tax bills, embargo's etc) and one or two of the appointments are definite contributors to that, I do somewhat disagree with your view regarding the new stadium...

Granted, the financial collapse of course had a huge negative impact on the plans and for sure added delays.

But, we are talking 20 years here that Ron has been attempting to build us a new home, be it the initial plans of just a 16k (?) stadium, or the more recent and elaborate 21k plus Ronville attached. Are we any closer, I mean really?.....lots of lovely drawings, but not a single spade in the ground in 20 years and no current planning permission. How many other stadiums have been built in this time, the answer is countless. You can only blame the financial collapse for so long IMO. Many other clubs have successfully ploughed on and built themselves a new home since.
 
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the last accounts Vic signed were to 31/7/97 (he resigned 19/5/98)



The club lost 559kthat year (down from 1.05M the previous year)

Share holders funds were 2.9M , which included over valued assets of at least 2.6M (see 1999)

Vic had steadily increased the asset values over the previous years accounts in order to reduce the book debt and make the club a more attractive proposition, by July 97 the assets were booked at 8M , with debts of 3.4M all due within 12 months , it was these debts which were dragging us down

in September 97 Vic mortgaged the Ground for 1.3M and sold Fixtures and fittings for 800K (and leased them back) - increasing the debt to 4.7M

2th May 98 the Training ground was sold by VJ to MD for 525K

On 26/1/99 RH was valued at 4M by and independent valuers , 2.6M lower Js book value

By the July 98 accts ( submitted late , 25/10/99) , the Creditors had not fully been cleared , leaving 3.2 M but the total assets had been reduced to 4.8M

The Ground was then sold for 4M in March 99

losses of 1.3M in 1998 , a further 2.3M in 1999 and 1.8M in 2000 meant that by the time the 2000 accounts were in (again late 7/11/01) we were already running a deficit 3.2M

We were losing money hand over fist in Vics final years , and borrowing from external sources , with a finite repayment plan, secured against over inflated assets meant that we were going nowhere fast .

Given that the spiralling footballing costs continued , to the extent that the main backers , Delancey opted out a few years later, it looks like we have done well to keep going for this long.......

Very interesting mate. And sort of ties in with what I thought.

So in reality nothing has changed in terms of operating losses, it was awful then under VJ as we know and still is now. But now we have next to no assets, down from around £8m and in debt an extra £13m+??

I fail to see how those with a similar viewpoint to me (Worried, rather than hugely anti-RM), could be almost hounded upon. Are these not the facts (that so many demand) and somewhat alarming?
 
Smiffy is right, Ron's had 20+ years at this and it's always someone or something else to blame when things don't go ahead (I remember his 'work starts in July' comment, not sure how many years ago that was). He's fallen out with big name developers, (Delancy, British Land) submitted then withdrawn plans to the Council and apart from a few hoardings, not a sausage has happened.
Judging by the views of some in here I'll look forward to seeing you all worshiping at the Statue of Ron outside the 'Ron Martin Stadium' when (if?) we finally move to a new home. More chance of winning the Premier League and FA cup double.
 
The accounts of nearly all FL Clubs are likely to be as worrying as outs.
Most alarming is the intransigence of the FA and Premiership to recognise this as a major scare to their core business base.
 
Very interesting mate. And sort of ties in with what I thought.

So in reality nothing has changed in terms of operating losses, it was awful then under VJ as we know and still is now. But now we have next to no assets, down from around £8m and in debt an extra £13m+??

I fail to see how those with a similar viewpoint to me (Worried, rather than hugely anti-RM), could be almost hounded upon. Are these not the facts (that so many demand) and somewhat alarming?


Yeah, basically we have been losing , on average 1M a year for the last 25 years

Wheeling and dealing against the value of the land owned by the owners of the club have enabled us to continue , but continued delays and the uncertainty of the retail and property markets , combined with the cash flow temporarily drying up due to lack of home fixtures and dwindling gates has resulted in a period of no available cash. Which , given our on the pitch performances , the Owner appears slightly reticent to dip into his pocket to underwrite.

Combined with the appalling form of the team frustrating fans , we end up in yet another debate about how crap the Owner of the club is .....
 
I think we were about £3m in debt when Ron took over officially, some time in Summer 2000. But we had Roots Hall and B&L, some of the most valuable land around?

We are now what £17m+ in debt and own **** all. Heading back to league 2 and with a crumbling stadium and training facility to boot.

20 years later of chasing the "dream" and we are right back where we started and in a lot worse position, certainly financially and in terms of assets and our home. Yes we have had a couple of good years along the way. But wheres the progress, the new stadium, financial stability etc?

Yes he has somehow kept the plates spinning for this long (and to be fair should be acknowledged for) but for how much longer can this chasing of the "dream" continue, before ultimately everyone including our club, goes down in flames?...

If this was me in charge, I would fully expect the fans and shareholders to hold me to account to what has happened under my tenure. I certainly would not be blaming others, or painting myself as a saint or saviour either.

Just to be very clear here, it was Vic Jobson that mortgaged Roots Hall, not Ron. Vic also re-valued Roots Hall upwards massively so that he could borrow more.

Even on the day he sold, he used SUFC to buy himself a Jaguar and his son a new sports car leaving SUFC (i.e. Ron) to pick up the finance payments for a fair few years.
 
Lots of figures, facts and stats flying around but there are some points that have been omitted. RH is not fit for purpose. It hasn't been for a very long time. As much as I love the stadium I would not spend a brass farthing on trying to make it aesthetically better. It would be like repainting the Titanic as she sinks. In order to survive, let alone be competitive, we need a new stadium. Ron is trying to to move us on as a club. Credit to him.

For someone to come in and take the club over, if anyone is that daft, just how much do you think they would have to pay? The club, as a playing entity, is worth two beans and a rat fart. RH with planning is worth a fortune. FF, with planning, is worth a fortune. RM is not going to go on the cheap and nor should he.

By all means line up the oil rich oligarchs. You know, the ones that look uneasy in a photoshoot with a Blues scarf on, and who will reassure the fans of a great future. All the while his bulldozers are at the ready and a deal is struck for us to play at Priory Park.

The club, and the town, need ambition and vision in equal measure. There is no such thing as standing still. Our losses are testament to that and cannot be sustained forever. Back Ron and have some hope.
 
Yeah, basically we have been losing , on average 1M a year for the last 25 years

Wheeling and dealing against the value of the land owned by the owners of the club have enabled us to continue , but continued delays and the uncertainty of the retail and property markets , combined with the cash flow temporarily drying up due to lack of home fixtures and dwindling gates has resulted in a period of no available cash. Which , given our on the pitch performances , the Owner appears slightly reticent to dip into his pocket to underwrite.

Combined with the appalling form of the team frustrating fans , we end up in yet another debate about how crap the Owner of the club is .....
It weird how the maths add up. It’s almost as though when Ron has said at various times over the years that he puts in around £100,000 a month that he is telling the truth
 
Very interesting mate. And sort of ties in with what I thought.

So in reality nothing has changed in terms of operating losses, it was awful then under VJ as we know and still is now. But now we have next to no assets, down from around £8m and in debt an extra £13m+??

I fail to see how those with a similar viewpoint to me (Worried, rather than hugely anti-RM), could be almost hounded upon. Are these not the facts (that so many demand) and somewhat alarming?

Smiffy, I think every single supporter is worried.

Look; for years (those who have been on this board that long will know this to be true) I have not necessarily been a fan of Ron and knew darn well that if his plan succeeded then he would do very nicely thank you, but we would still have a club as well. He was in the right place at the right time to pick up RH at a very, very modest price that was way below it's actual value, given the development potential. But here we are, 20+ years on and it's still not developed. After the stadium plans first collapsed, he went from the super popular "Uncle Ron" to our most hated chairman in history (even more so than Vic and Anton Johnson), pretty much overnight.

I did not join those dissenting voices, but instead held my belief and stood up for him, sometimes seeming like the only one at that time who wasn't "anti-Ron". At times it was like I was Henry Fonda in "Twelve Angry Men".

My views have never changed and slowly various voices have come around to my way of thinking. If Ron is here, then we are also here. If FF gets built and Ron does well, so do we. He is not going to put us in a new stadium and then walk away. His business plan will, I'm sure, involve ongoing rentals somewhere from the development (possibly from the hotel or casino he has planned for the commercial unit attached to main stand) and so for that to succeed and be the legacy he leaves to his family requires the development to do well. He is not going to let the whole thing become a white elephant. He needs the footfall and what better than a professional football club with upwards of 30 home matches a year with 10,000+ plus attending?

This is the dream, obviously. We are still on course, albeit having gone through some very rocky times and with no doubt more to come. On the field we will be hard pushed over the next two or 3 years to perform as we should, but that is the nature of football; outside the very big clubs, promotion up and down the divisions is cyclical and perfectly normal, especially in the lower leagues, so I would imagine most fans of lower league clubs are worried.

I am not at all concerned for our existence whilst he is still here as he has shown time and time again that he has the resources (or can get access to them) to back the club up. He won't let us go into administration. We - in my opinion - have a cash flow issue and the financial budget hasn't been met. When you run big companies, budgets are crucial and you can't just keep raiding the piggy bank to prop the club with cash up ad infinitum, as then the losses get even bigger.

Ron also won't care too much about our reputation. There will always be players willing to play for us; we're a professional club and every footballer wants to be a professional footballer. We aren't run very professionally maybe and he could certainly do with a CEO but he has probably expanded the playing budget to try and get better players in and this will be at the expense of non playing staff.

But the thing that DOES worry me is the one thing that is an absolute roaring certainty to happen. It's the ONLY thing guaranteed in all of this and is not disputable in any way, shape or form.

One day, Ron will die.

Hopefully he will have a long and healthy life and by the time he does pass away, we will be in a much healthier state as his dream and ambition will have borne fruit.

But if he doesn't, and something happens sooner rather than later, when the job isn't done... then we are up the creek without a paddle. Because whilst Ron might write off monies owed, you can bet his Executors won't. They can't; they have fiduciary duties and will be obliged to call in the debt.

Let's say the beneficiaries were understanding and advised them not to collect - which is in their gift to do - we could not possibly survive without his monthly dealings financial support.

In short, the club would pretty much die with him.

There's nothing we can do about any of this by the way, except possibly try and drive him out of the club. But I think that will just accelerate our demise. There's no queue of people waiting to step in and if anyone does, it will be for what they get out of it.

So a long time ago I discovered that not worrying about things I had no control over was much less stressful. And there's bugger all I can do about the state of the SUFC finances, other than by "doing my bit".

I'm therefore just along for the ride, supporting the club where I can, always going to matches where possible, not boycotting the CheckaJohnstonspaintLDVleasing cup or whatever it's called and paying my money across the turnstile, buying a shirt every year and generally trying to be a decent supporter.

It's far less stressful and I thoroughly recommend it.
 
I'm sorry but the spin some of you have bought into that this is RM's 'own money' he's put into the club is, I suspect, pure fantasy. I bet the reality is it will be in the form of more 'loans' from his other companies which will have to be paid back in the future, together with all the other loans, unpaid rent for Roots Hall (another asset he hived off into one of his other companies) etc. More chance of finding the 'war chest' than of this being his own money me thinks.
Loans are pointless if they can never be repaid.....this is investment from his businesses into the club which ever way you look at it!!
 
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