Ron Martin's reaction to relegation

[GBJ]

Id say that its even clearer than that, because of problems with salaries and prior to that the tax bill we had embargos applied which meant we couldnt even resort to loans.

The off the field issues played a major part in our on the pitch problems and Ron Martin has to hold his hands up.

He seems to be almost accepting some responsibility in there, but not enough.

IMO, the majority, if not everything that has gone wrong this season, can be traced back to Ronald.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Ah, of course.

It wouldn't be an SZ thread without the Darlington comparison.

You're quite right. How jolly unfair of me to compare us to the mob once owned by ex-convict George Reynolds.

Our wider financial situation, the fact that we don't own our own ground, and our chairman's obsession with a stadium which has (at times) left the club teetering on the brink of financial ruin, clearly brooks no comparison with Darlington, now of the Blue Sq. Premiership.

 

[Jam_Man]

You're quite right. How jolly unfair of me to compare us to the mob once owned by ex-convict George Reynolds.

Our wider financial situation, the fact that we don't own our own ground, and our chairman's obsession with a stadium which has (at times) left the club teetering on the brink of financial ruin, clearly brooks no comparison with Darlington, now of the Blue Sq. Premiership.

You make it sound like no one wanted the stadium!

I remember the hundreds of us down the Civic Centre desperately hoping it would be agreed, Ron Martin is providing what we as supporters wanted as well as a financial gain for himself.

Also its not Ron Martins fault we dont own our own stadium, point the blame at previous regimes...

 

[EastStandBlue]

You're quite right. How jolly unfair of me to compare us to the mob once owned by ex-convict George Reynolds.

Our wider financial situation, the fact that we don't own our own ground, and our chairman's obsession with a stadium which has (at times) left the club teetering on the brink of financial ruin, clearly brooks no comparison with Darlington, now of the Blue Sq. Premiership.

You mean Reynolds/Darlington who constructed a 25,000 capacity stadium for a club burdened by a desperately small catchment area with average attendances that rarely break the 4,000 mark.

Out of interest, MtS, what do you see as the alternative to the relocation? Surely this season has made it ever clearer that, without substantial investment or a drastic reduction in wages (and subsequently, quality) we simply cannot compete at this level while remaining at Roots Hall?

Feels like the same comparisons, arguments and counter arguments occur in each and every thread as of late...

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Out of interest, MtS, what do you see as the alternative to the relocation? Surely this season has made it ever clearer that, without substantial investment or a drastic reduction in wages (and subsequently, quality) we simply cannot compete at this level while remaining at Roots Hall?

Is that right, though? We need Gary's help with the finances, but I seem to recall that somewhere between £1m - £2m has been taken out of the club to pay for the various fees concerning the development.

I'd be happier with a stable, solvent club in L1 than sending the club into liquidation chasing a pipedream. I'm all for the redevelopment, but subject to the whopping proviso that we can afford it.

After all, I'd like to be driving a Bentley; but, since I haven't got the sort of money to pay for one of those, I'm more than happy to bobble along in my 8 yr-old Volvo until I can afford an upgrade. Looks like Ron is chasing the Bentley when we can't even afford to pay back the Hire-Purchase for - or even put petrol into - our wee Ford Fiesta.

Call me old-fashioned or unimaginitive, but that worries me. A lot.

Matt

 

[EastStandBlue]

Is that right, though? We need Gary's help with the finances, but I seem to recall that somewhere between £1m - £2m has been taken out of the club to pay for the various fees concerning the development.

I'd be happier with a stable, solvent club in L1 than sending the club into liquidation chasing a pipedream. I'm all for the redevelopment, but subject to the whopping proviso that we can afford it.

After all, I'd like to be driving a Bentley; but, since I haven't got the sort of money to pay for one of those, I'm more than happy to bobble along in my 8 yr-old Volvo until I can afford an upgrade. Looks like Ron is chasing the Bentley when we can't even afford to pay back the Hire-Purchase for - or even put petrol into - our wee Ford Fiesta.

Call me old-fashioned or unimaginitive, but that worries me. A lot.

Matt

But if, with a year of scrimping and saving, you could probably just about afford to pay for a Bentley with the help of selling your volvo and a manageable loan, you'd do so, wouldn't you?

I'd also be happy with a stable, solvent club in League One but with the current infrastructure and revenue streams, our financial issues would suggest it's unmanageable while at Roots Hall. Our wage bill isn't proportionate to our final position, but it's certainly proportionate to the third tier of English football and, on more than one occasion this season, we haven't been able to afford it.

Now, you could easily blame RM for this as, after all, the buck stops with the chairman, but we've suffered the same issues long before he set sights on the club and he's propped the club up for the best part of the decade.

If you ask me, a season of hoofball and trips to Morecambe is a suitable sacrifice for a platform capable of sustaining the growth of our football club. As ever, it's a case of who you believe as to whether or not this will start this Summer.

 

[A Century United]

Is that right, though? We need Gary's help with the finances, but I seem to recall that somewhere between £1m - £2m has been taken out of the club to pay for the various fees concerning the development.

I'd be happier with a stable, solvent club in L1 than sending the club into liquidation chasing a pipedream. I'm all for the redevelopment, but subject to the whopping proviso that we can afford it.

After all, I'd like to be driving a Bentley; but, since I haven't got the sort of money to pay for one of those, I'm more than happy to bobble along in my 8 yr-old Volvo until I can afford an upgrade. Looks like Ron is chasing the Bentley when we can't even afford to pay back the Hire-Purchase for - or even put petrol into - our wee Ford Fiesta.

Call me old-fashioned or unimaginitive, but that worries me. A lot.

Matt

Garry has consistently said that there is no evidence that money has been taken from the club to pay for fees, certainly no sum of that magnitude:

I have had another look at the accounts to 31/7/08 and other than the admin expenses there is nothing "unidentified"
As I said in my previous post , I initially thought 2m was high, but then as it has been around the 1.5M for the past 15 years It is probably nothing too untoward.

 

[Cricko]

But if, with a year of scrimping and saving, you could probably just about afford to pay for a Bentley with the help of selling your volvo and a manageable loan, you'd do so, wouldn't you?

I'd also be happy with a stable, solvent club in League One but with the current infrastructure and revenue streams, our financial issues would suggest it's unmanageable while at Roots Hall. Our wage bill isn't proportionate to our final position, but it's certainly proportionate to the third tier of English football and, on more than one occasion this season, we haven't been able to afford it.

Now, you could easily blame RM for this as, after all, the buck stops with the chairman, but we've suffered the same issues long before he set sights on the club and he's propped the club up for the best part of the decade.

If you ask me, a season of hoofball and trips to Morecambe is a suitable sacrifice for a platform capable of sustaining the growth of our football club. As ever, it's a case of who you believe as to whether or not this will start this Summer.

Where on earth do you get this assumption from..he has sold/borrowed/hocked every tangible asset we ever had for his long term dream...He never had any money,you live in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Where on earth do you get this assumption from..he has sold/borrowed/hocked every tangible asset we ever had for his long term dream...He never had any money,you live in cloud cuckoo land.

Ignoring players (Barnard and Eastwood both wanting to move), the only tangible assets that I recall us "selling" under RM's tenure have been the club shop and food outlets, which have been sold to franchises. If you know otherwise then please enlighten me.

The fact that substantial loans from "holding" companies and sums of rent for both Roots Hall and the Training Ground have been written off and RM remains our largest creditor would suggest that he has been propping up the club financially... Not on his own, but with the help of Delancey et al, for some time.

 

[McNasty]

Cricko, please check to see if ESB is really Ron Martin -- I have had this thought for a long time.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Cricko, please check to see if ESB is really Ron Martin -- I have had this thought for a long time.

You going to change my username again? Because that was oh so hilarious the first time round.

 

[Cricko]

Ignoring players (Barnard and Eastwood both wanting to move), the only tangible assets that I recall us "selling" under RM's tenure have been the club shop and food outlets, which have been sold to franchises. If you know otherwise then please enlighten me.

The fact that substantial loans from "holding" companies and sums of rent for both Roots Hall and the Training Ground have been written off and RM remains our largest creditor would suggest that he has been propping up the club financially... Not on his own, but with the help of Delancey et al, for some time.

Grrrrrr what holding companies ..he owns the lot..One thing that really grates on me is the quote from RM..I don't charge the club rent.Er maybe because you own all...not much point in writing a chq from one company to the next if you own both FFS and both are skint...

You are an intelligent guy ESB...but somehow are sinking into the mire of RM's spin.....He has borrowed against all we owned and all our future..be it Banks...(although of course we have no overdraft...no miracle working out why that is)..Sainsbury's..The Trust..next years season tickets already sold at Christmas..no players signed...wages paid late..embargoes...do I really need to go on?

 

[jamesmut2000]

Grrrrrr what holding companies ..he owns the lot..One thing that really grates on me is the quote from RM..I don't charge the club rent.Er maybe because you own all...not much point in writing a chq from one company to a next if you both own FFS and both are skint...

You are an intelligent guy ESB...but somehow are sinking into the mire of RM's spin.....He has borrowed against all we owned and all our future..be it Banks...(although of course we have no overdraft...no miracle working that out)..Sainsbury's..The Trust..next years season tickets already sold at Christmas..no players signed...wages paid late..embargoes...do I really need to go on?

No you don't, but you probably will.

 

[Cricko]

No you don't, but you probably will.

Damn you James...You sussed me...;)

 

[EastStandBlue]

Grrrrrr what holding companies ..he owns the lot..One thing that really grates on me is the quote from RM..I don't charge the club rent.Er maybe because you own all...not much point in writing a chq from one company to the next if you own both FFS and both are skint...

You are an intelligent guy ESB...but somehow are sinking into the mire of RM's spin.....He has borrowed against all we owned and all our future..be it Banks...(although of course we have no overdraft...no miracle working out why that is)..Sainsbury's..The Trust..next years season tickets already sold at Christmas..no players signed...wages paid late..embargoes...do I really need to go on?

Exactly, he owns it all. He purchased the ground and training facilities using finance belonging to him (and the group of companies, I dare say) in order to complete the Fossett's Farm project which would be beneficial to both us and him. It's also in the accounts that a company belonging to RM (Mezcal Investments) loaned the club £1million and is still listed as a creditor.

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but what exactly did we own when RM arrived? Sainsbury's loaned RM's group of companies the £2.3m, secured on land unrelated to SUFC, but this has been discussed to death.

The latter is all evidence to the crime that RM is most guilty of, running out of money, something that has hardly been avoidable. I've said before myself that this is the one huge shortfalling of RM was that he doesn't have the finance to support the club any longer and should have sought a partner or someone willing to assist the club following what has been a series of events nothing short of disastrous... Something that RM has seemingly achieved with Sainsbury's now on board.

As much as I can be accused of "falling for RM's spin", you can be accused of letting your own personal feelings of RM, following whatever incident in which he lied to you, cloud your judgement.

 

[Beefy]

Our wider financial situation, the fact that we don't own our own ground, and our chairman's obsession with a stadium which has (at times) left the club teetering on the brink of financial ruin, clearly brooks no comparison with Darlington, now of the Blue Sq. Premiership.

How has an obsession with a new stadium left us on the brink of ruin? It's only because of the possibility of us having a new stadium which prevented us reaching this exact point six, seven or eight years ago.

 

[wiggy]

Exactly, he owns it all. He purchased the ground and training facilities using finance belonging to him (and the group of companies, I dare say) in order to complete the Fossett's Farm project which would be beneficial to both us and him. It's also in the accounts that a company belonging to RM (Mezcal Investments) loaned the club £1million and is still listed as a creditor.

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but what exactly did we own when RM arrived? Sainsbury's loaned RM's group of companies the £2.3m, secured on land unrelated to SUFC, but this has been discussed to death.

The latter is all evidence to the crime that RM is most guilty of, running out of money, something that has hardly been avoidable. I've said before myself that this is the one huge shortfalling of RM was that he doesn't have the finance to support the club any longer and should have sought a partner or someone willing to assist the club following what has been a series of events nothing short of disastrous... Something that RM has seemingly achieved with Sainsbury's now on board.

As much as I can be accused of "falling for RM's spin", you can be accused of letting your own personal feelings of RM, following whatever incident in which he lied to you, cloud your judgement.

When i see that drunken idiot accosting ******** Ron in the stands at Braintree i actually felt sorry for him. And now i know that the drunken idiot was absolutely spot on!

 

[Strykr]

its all getting a bit deja vu zone isnt it? i swear every thread descends into this type of argument these days!
we all have our ideas about why this season went so badly, and beleive Ron or not, by and large I think we all agree why it went so wrong. I like the idea of drawing a line under this season and seeing what the next brings, could be grim, could be great. thats what its all about.

summer, tennis, cricket, world cup, whatever you fancy, logging on to the BBC football website for transfer gossip, and before you know it were all back at Roots Hall.

 

[Cricko]

Were not all loans/etc by RM written off according to him....I doubt that very much...Mezcal is just another arm of the same person.Rob Peter pay Paul until the money runs out against assets the club had before he came along.

IE: we owned the ground and the planning for a new stadium had been talked about for years...We have all known for years RH is prime development land in the town and so was B&L's..

This is not rocket science...Do you honestly believe this is all about SUFC....get real...we are just a small pain in the a'rse at the moment to the long term goals of RM.

 

[Beefy]

Is that right, though? We need Gary's help with the finances, but I seem to recall that somewhere between £1m - £2m has been taken out of the club to pay for the various fees concerning the development.

You don't need anyone's help. You can just look at the accounts. Or read any one of the 5,000 threads on here over the last two years in which the point that there's no evidence whatsoever that Southend United have spent a single penny on the development of either Roots Hall or Fossetts Farm.