Ron Martin's reaction to relegation

[Matt the Shrimp]

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but what exactly did we own when RM arrived?

Our own ground.

When Ron waded in, we were in tons of debt - but at least the ground nominally belonged to the club. We now have tons of debt, but don't even own the ground.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Were not all loans/etc by RM written off according to him....I doubt that very much...Mezcal is just another arm of the same person.Rob Peter pay Paul until the money runs out against assets the club had before he came along.

That argument would have substance if £1m was taken from the club's accounts in order to repay Mezcal or any other of the 29 companies RM owns. As it happens, it hasn't, so the £1m stands as a loan to the club itself.

This is not rocket science...Do you honestly believe this is all about SUFC....get real...we are just a small pain in the a'rse at the moment to the long term goals of RM.

No I don't, I didn't say it was. It'd help if you read my post.

 

[Tinks]

Did he not say at the Q & A session recently that relegation would be fatal?

 

[Cricko]

You don't need anyone's help. You can just look at the accounts. Or read any one of the 5,000 threads on here over the last two years in which the point that there's no evidence whatsoever that Southend United have spent a single penny on the development of either Roots Hall or Fossetts Farm.

Why do you choose to believe all the bollocks that RM has spun us over the past few years for lack of a credible piece of paper....I am sure it said somewhere that he has spent 1.8 mill on the plans for FF..I think this was in one of his blogs..where do you think that money came from.Under his bed?

 

[Beefy]

its all getting a bit deja vu zone isnt it? i swear every thread descends into this type of argument these days!
we all have our ideas about why this season went so badly, and beleive Ron or not, by and large I think we all agree why it went so wrong. I like the idea of drawing a line under this season and seeing what the next brings, could be grim, could be great. thats what its all about.

summer, tennis, cricket, world cup, whatever you fancy, logging on to the BBC football website for transfer gossip, and before you know it were all back at Roots Hall.

That's because that's exactly what happens. Clearly neither side are going to listen to the other. I know my head hurts from all the beating of it against the wall that I've been doing in recent months and I'm sure that graysblue.jr and others feel the same on the other 'side'.

 

[wiggy]

Our own ground.

When Ron waded in, we were in tons of debt - but at least the ground nominally belonged to the club. We now have tons of debt, but don't even own the ground.

...like it!

 

[Cricko]

That argument would have substance if £1m was taken from the club's accounts in order to repay Mezcal or any other of the 29 companies RM owns. As it happens, it hasn't, so the £1m stands as a loan to the club itself.



No I don't, I didn't say it was. It'd help if you read my post.

Lol..now you are being ridiculous.....Can you imagine RM saying oh by the way we are skint but I have used some of the funds SUFC bring in to get my long term plans on line.

You can inter company loan all you like...but if you have Sweet FA in the first place it means nothing.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

You don't need anyone's help. You can just look at the accounts. Or read any one of the 5,000 threads on here over the last two years in which the point that there's no evidence whatsoever that Southend United have spent a single penny on the development of either Roots Hall or Fossetts Farm.

Are there published accounts for Roots Hall Limited and South Eastern Leisure as well?

Money has been taken out of the wider club's assets to pay professional fees in trying to build a new stadium.

We have the ninth highest attendance figures in the table - so how come we're struggling to compete with the rest of the division in terms of maintaining a squad (we've had one bona fide centre half signed to the club all season) and paying the squad on time?

Something doesn't add up - and it's not just the numerous balance sheets of the myriad companies which lie under the surface of SUFC.

 

[Beefy]

Why do you choose to believe all the bollocks that RM has spun us over the past few years for lack of a credible piece of paper....I am sure it said somewhere that he has spent 1.8 mill on the plans for FF..I think this was in one of his blogs..where do you think that money came from.Under his bed?

I don't choose to believe anything. I judge everything on it's merits. I've seen the accounts. They were signed off by auditors, were inspected by the Club's bank and haven't been queried. They make clear that the Club isn't paying for the new ground. Until anything happens that offers evidence to the contrary I'll accept it and will certainly not be afraid to challenge those on here passing on their own opinions as fact even when they aren't backed up by anything.

Our problems have nothing to do with the new ground. We won't own it and haven't been paying for it. We're suffering from a classic cashflow shortage. That's not a good thing - having cashflow problems is the worst thing that can happen to any business. We suffer from the problem because our outgoings far exceed our income and we don't, as a business, generate enough cash to cover our cashflow obligations. Hence why we've been borrowing money wherever we can and have been trying to get season ticket money as early as possible.

I'm certainly not pro-Ron Martin. I think the bulk of our problems stem back to massive losses caused by signing players we couldn't afford on big contracts which have ended up crippling us. But I wasn't complaining when we signed them. Neither were you. Personally I don't think we'll ever move to Fossetts Farm and I think that there's a far greater chance than a lot of people on here realise that ultimately we'll go to the wall. But right now I don't see much of an alternative and I don't see how Ron walking out at this stage would do anything other than kill off our last chance of survival.

 

[bluebrian]

Are there published accounts for Roots Hall Limited and South Eastern Leisure as well?

Money has been taken out of the wider club's assets to pay professional fees in trying to build a new stadium.

We have the ninth highest attendance figures in the table - so how come we're struggling to compete with the rest of the division in terms of maintaining a squad (we've had one bona fide centre half signed to the club all season) and paying the squad on time?

Something doesn't add up - and it's not just the numerous balance sheets of the myriad companies which lie under the surface of SUFC.

Something definitely doesn't add up and to me that is that you and Cricko must have some inside info to have turned the way you both have!! I know I have said this before and I will keep saying you are both very intelligent men and to have turned the way you both have suggests to me you know something - come on spill the beans............

 

[Cricko]

I don't choose to believe anything. I judge everything on it's merits. I've seen the accounts. They were signed off by auditors, were inspected by the Club's bank and haven't been queried. They make clear that the Club isn't paying for the new ground. Until anything happens that offers evidence to the contrary I'll accept it and will certainly not be afraid to challenge those on here passing on their own opinions as fact even when they aren't backed up by anything.

Our problems have nothing to do with the new ground. We won't own it and haven't been paying for it. We're suffering from a classic cashflow shortage. That's not a good thing - having cashflow problems is the worst thing that can happen to any business. We suffer from the problem because our outgoings far exceed our income and we don't, as a business, generate enough cash to cover our cashflow obligations. Hence why we've been borrowing money wherever we can and have been trying to get season ticket money as early as possible.

I'm certainly not pro-Ron Martin. I think the bulk of our problems stem back to massive losses caused by signing players we couldn't afford on big contracts which have ended up crippling us. But I wasn't complaining when we signed them. Neither were you. Personally I don't think we'll ever move to Fossetts Farm and I think that there's a far greater chance than a lot of people on here realise that ultimately we'll go to the wall. But right now I don't see much of an alternative and I don't see how Ron walking out at this stage would do anything other than kill off our last chance of survival.

Funny enough I don't want RM to walk....he is all we have....but the accounts show admin costs of 2mill odd ..what does that mean..perhaps with your knowledge you can inform me...these seem to have been about for years even since the days of Jobson but seem to mean just costs....I would love to see the breakdown of these so called admin costs or did RM inherit the idea from the past owners?

 

[EastStandBlue]

Funny enough I don't want RM to walk....he is all we have....but the accounts show admin costs of 2mill odd ..what does that mean..perhaps with your knowledge you can inform me...these seem to have been about for years even since the days of Jobson but seem to mean just costs....I would love to see the breakdown of these so called admin costs or did RM inherit the idea from the past owners?

We really are going around in circles now as Firestorm has summarised admin costs quite a few times in the past.

 

[jamesmut2000]

We really are going around in circles now as Firestorm has summarised admin costs quite a few times in the past.

But has he 'summarised' it 14 times yet???

 

[Beefy]

Are there published accounts for Roots Hall Limited and South Eastern Leisure as well?

Money has been taken out of the wider club's assets to pay professional fees in trying to build a new stadium.

We have the ninth highest attendance figures in the table - so how come we're struggling to compete with the rest of the division in terms of maintaining a squad (we've had one bona fide centre half signed to the club all season) and paying the squad on time?

Something doesn't add up - and it's not just the numerous balance sheets of the myriad companies which lie under the surface of SUFC.

Yes there are accounts for those companies. And that is where the liabilities of the stadium will lie. Money that those two entities generate and spend have nothing to do with SUFC. The money hasn't come from the football club.

Attendances mean very little in terms of our day to day operations. We have 8,000 fans a game apx. Half of those are season ticket holders which means that they haven't contributed a penny to the Club financially in a year. Their £380 will sit in the P&L as income but again our problem is cashflow.

Anyway, we've had, what, 25 home games this season? 8,000 fans paying a (generous) average of £13 a ticket 25 times a season comes to £2,600,000. That's almost a million below our wagebill. Before tax is taken off of that income and it's used to pay for any of the other hundreds of things a business needs to pay for.

How have other Clubs survived? A realistic wage bill in the case of some, such as Yeovil. A generous benefactor in terms of others (Colchester). And other just don't care. They spend money that they don't have and when it catches up with them they take Administration. Like 50 Clubs have done in the past 13 years. It was only a year or so ago that we had Swindon fans on here appealing for help as they desperately attempted to avoid administration for the third time, which would have meant expulsion from the League. In January Vincent Pericard walked out of Carlisle United to join Swindon because Carlisle couldn't compete with the wages that Swindon were offering. People just don't learn.

The sad truth is that in order to compete with Clubs who spend money they haven't got, a Club like ours feels like it has to spend money it hasn't got.

 

[Beefy]

Funny enough I don't want RM to walk....he is all we have....but the accounts show admin costs of 2mill odd ..what does that mean..perhaps with your knowledge you can inform me...these seem to have been about for years even since the days of Jobson but seem to mean just costs....I would love to see the breakdown of these so called admin costs or did RM inherit the idea from the past owners?

They have their own thread in the Finance & Stadium forum where they are broken down. I'm pretty sure you've even posted in that thread. And as ESB says, Firestorm mentions them on pretty much a daily basis.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

RM inferred that Barrett was on around about £3kp/w and I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Francis, McCormack and Mildenhall are on around the £2k+ mark, perhaps taking home more with bonuses. Obviously that probably won't be the case when relegation clauses are activated...

I'll be interested to know what kind of wages Rochdale or Bradford offer to be honest, as that's the kind of club we'll be competing with.

NB.You(or RM) infer we deduce.

 

[canveyshrimper]

NB.You(or RM) infer we deduce.

Or speculate.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Cricko, please check to see if ESB is really Ron Martin -- I have had this thought for a long time.

I have also queried this-or at least something similar-when I asked if he was an employee of the Chairman's 28 companies or sat in the DB.I await an answer.;)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You don't need anyone's help. You can just look at the accounts. Or read any one of the 5,000 threads on here over the last two years in which the point that there's no evidence whatsoever that Southend United have spent a single penny on the development of either Roots Hall or Fossetts Farm.[/QUOTE]

Legal fees for planning permission for FF?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Are there published accounts for Roots Hall Limited and South Eastern Leisure as well?

Money has been taken out of the wider club's assets to pay professional fees in trying to build a new stadium.

We have the ninth highest attendance figures in the table - so how come we're struggling to compete with the rest of the division in terms of maintaining a squad (we've had one bona fide centre half signed to the club all season) and paying the squad on time?

Something doesn't add up - and it's not just the numerous balance sheets of the myriad companies which lie under the surface of SUFC.

Look for the 3 million pound hole in the accounts.