Ron Martin's reaction to relegation

[GBJ]

Why cant that be true?

Its far more likely that he is trying to progress the club than it is he is just out to make a buck at our expense !

If he was as you describe then why isnt he building a tin pot stadium like Col U's?

He would make far more money by building a cheap crappy little 15,000 stadium than by the plans he has.

Why are his plans so ambitious if he cares nothing about the club? It took pretty much everyone by surprise when we found out it was to be a 22,000 capacity stadium, if he isnt interested in the club why be more ambitious than the supporters?

Sorry but your view doesnt make sense when you look at it logically and just because we are in the mire doesnt mean thats how Ron wants us to be or that he doesnt care. The worst criticism I would aim at him is that he isnt managing the situation very well for whatever reason, I really dont see that he is this evil crook that many seem to paint him out to be.

In a few years we will see if he has delivered what he promised, its only then we can judge him and not in the middle of a very difficult project.



If we have 2 or 3 bad seasons and end up in the new stadium then its a hurdle we had to clear, thats all.

LOL. Sorry Jammy, but it's something i just don't/won't buy. Ron has admitted he is not a football fan. We all know Ron is a property developer. We all know he will make a mint from the development and subsequent rent. He would make the same amount of money if we were in The Ryman South or The Prem League. The football side of his "dealings" is a very small one.

If you look at it logically, we are being (badly) run by a man with little interest on the football side of things. He is primarily interested in the sale of RH and the development of FF. Why would he be worried, or even care about an ailing football club (which is insolvent) once RonaldWorld is complete? He'll be set for life, why would he bother pumping more money into a small football club?

.

 

[A Century United]

LOL. Sorry Jammy, but it's something i just don't/won't buy. Ron has admitted he is not a football fan. We all know Ron is a property developer. We all know he will make a mint from the development and subsequent rent. He would make the same amount of money if we were in The Ryman South or The Prem League. The football side of his "dealings" is a very small one.

If you look at it logically, we are being (badly) run by a man with little interest on the football side of things. He is primarily interested in the sale of RH and the development of FF. Why would he be worried, or even care about an ailing football club (which is insolvent) once RonaldWorld is complete? He'll be set for life, why would he bother pumping more money into a small football club?

.

And that is exactly the point that is always ignored. Why build a 22,000 seat stadium when 14-15k would (it appears) satisfy most on here? Why establish the Yoofs and bring in Ricky Duncan when he could have saved a bundle on that? Why set up the community education side which also costs money if all RM is interested in is lining his own pocket? Your arguement simply doesn't fit the facts.

 

[GBJ]

And that is exactly the point that is always ignored. Why build a 22,000 seat stadium when 14-15k would (it appears) satisfy most on here? Why establish the Yoofs and bring in Ricky Duncan when he could have saved a bundle on that? Why set up the community education side which also costs money if all RM is interested in is lining his own pocket? Your arguement simply doesn't fit the facts.

Who knows? Could it all be a smoke screen? Ron is a very, very clever man. For that, there is no doubt.

Like the old saying goes -

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was convincing the World he didn't exist"

 

[EastStandBlue]

Who knows? Could it all be a smoke screen? Ron is a very, very clever man. For that, there is no doubt.

You seriously believe he'd go to all that trouble, spend all that money just to blow a smoke screen over this when it'd be far easier just to do nothing and answer no questions?

 

[GBJ]

You seriously believe he'd go to all that trouble, spend all that money just to blow a smoke screen over this when it'd be far easier just to do nothing and answer no questions?

I didn't say i did. I'm just offering possible reasons.

However, If it's a choice of believing that theory, or believing Ron is doing "what's best for our club", then there will only be one i choose, as the second one is purely bonkers imo

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

You ARE right. Sadly, those that have an understanding are in the minority here, and don't post as often as they should! From what I can see there has been no money taken out of the club, just injections from parent companies.

And on the Planning costs of £2m(?), well it's blatently clear from the accounts that that was not paid by the club. They must have been paid by the property group - a football can not bear the brunt of costs that large!! haha

Agreed with both of you - my only conclusion about the events is that by cash-flowing the FF development, Ron has been short of cash to inject into SUFC which our business plan (i.e. the players we have employed) relies on.

I too have read the accounts and SUFC Ltd has not been paying to develop the FF plans, but Ron has and that's why he's so short of cash to put into the football club.

 

[RobM]

OK so let's look at Rochdale. Average attendance 3300. Ticket price average - say £15, 23 home games = total gate revenue of £1,138,500. Say 20 players = £57,000 average assuming all revenue goes just on player's wages and nothing else. 60% wage cap though isn't there? S0 £57,000 x 0.6 = £34,200 or just over £650 a week.

I don't imagine sponsorship and TV money would amount to much.


Not exact obviously but an indication.

 

[Jam_Man]

I didn't say i did. I'm just offering possible reasons.

However, If it's a choice of believing that theory, or believing Ron is doing "what's best for our club", then there will only be one i choose, as the second one is purely bonkers imo

Your reasons are not at all logical though and seriously, you think he would add millions to the project just to hide his dastardly plan !?!

He would not go through the expense of a 22,000 seat stadium when a 15,000 would have been acceptable if he didnt have some interest in the club itself.

Yes he came into the club to make money, yes he does want the pot of gold from the development, and no of course he isnt just doing it for the love of football.

However its obvious to anyone unbiased that he must have some interest in the football club progressing or he wouldnt have bothered with such grand designs.

If he didnt give a monkeys we would have a lego stadium like Col U's and not an iconic building like the one planned.

You are entitled to form any opinions you wish of the man but nothing you have said explains why he has such ambitious plans if he cares nothing about the club.

 

[EastStandBlue]

OK so let's look at Rochdale. Average attendance 3300. Ticket price average - say £15, 23 home games = total gate revenue of £1,138,500. Say 20 players = £57,000 average assuming all revenue goes just on player's wages and nothing else. 60% wage cap though isn't there? S0 £57,000 x 0.6 = £34,200 or just over £650 a week.

I don't imagine sponsorship and TV money would amount to much.


Not exact obviously but an indication.

It's 60% of total income, so ticket revenue is supplemented by commercial operations, sponsorship, merchandise, match day revenue etc.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

All this stuff about not likely to get on TV, as arguably the 2nd or at the very least 3rd biggest club in L2, I'd say we stand a fair chance of getting at least one league game on. Is it 4 or 6 L2 games show live now? I'd bet if the Daggers don't go up or Barnet stay up & those games fall on an international weekend we'll more than likely be scheduled for live TV.

 

[A Century United]

Who knows? Could it all be a smoke screen? Ron is a very, very clever man. For that, there is no doubt.

Like the old saying goes -

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was convincing the World he didn't exist"

And it really does seem that people are out to demonise him.

Every penny he spends on that stadium is a penny less in his pocket. I know that there are people better qualified than me to comment on new-build costs, but if a 22k fancy stadium like ours is £40-45m, then a bog standard Cuckoo Farm style mechano stadium, even one expanded to say 15k seats, is going to come in at millions below that. My guess would be at least £20m cheaper, (Cuckoo Farm cost £14m in total) but even if it was only £10m that is money that would otherwise be in RM's pocket.

I appreciate that RM might be more devious and cunning than even you give him credit for, but the idea that he would spend £10-20million just to generate a smokescreen is ludicrous.

 

[Jam_Man]

And it really does seem that people are out to demonise him.

Every penny he spends on that stadium is a penny less in his pocket. I know that there are people better qualified than me to comment on new-build costs, but if a 22k fancy stadium like ours is £40-45m, then a bog standard Cuckoo Farm style mechano stadium, even one expanded to say 15k seats, is going to come in at millions below that. My guess would be at least £20m cheaper, (Cuckoo Farm cost £14m in total) but even if it was only £10m that is money that would otherwise be in RM's pocket.

I appreciate that RM might be more devious and cunning than even you give him credit for, but the idea that he would spend £10-20million just to generate a smokescreen is ludicrous.

Indeed!

He has made mistakes and open to plenty of criticism but some people just want to make him out to be some crook out to ruin us.

Things arent that black and white....

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

All this stuff about not likely to get on TV, as arguably the 2nd or at the very least 3rd biggest club in L2, I'd say we stand a fair chance of getting at least one league game on. Is it 4 or 6 L2 games show live now? I'd bet if the Daggers don't go up or Barnet stay up & those games fall on an international weekend we'll more than likely be scheduled for live TV.

It's not League matches that need to be shown live as Southend would hardly get any money for that (about £20,000 for the home club I think). It's the cup matches where the real TV money is.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

It's not League matches that need to be shown live as Southend would hardly get any money for that (about £20,000 for the home club I think). It's the cup matches where the real TV money is.

Again, not really that much of an issue.
If we get a big 5 cup draw at home, we're probably just as likely to be shown if we're in L2 than if we were still a mid-table or even worse team in L1...

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

Again, not really that much of an issue.
If we get a big 5 cup draw at home, we're probably just as likely to be shown if we're in L2 than if we were still a mid-table or even worse team in L1...

Yeah as with most lower League clubs you just need the luck of the draw to be the selected live game. Mind you winning a few more cup games than last season would increase our chances of being shown live!

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Yeah as with most lower League clubs you just need the luck of the draw to be the selected live game. Mind you winning a few more cup games than last season would increase our chances of being shown live!

Alas, that is very true!

 

[GBJ]

Indeed!

He has made mistakes and open to plenty of criticism but some people just want to make him out to be some crook out to ruin us.

Things arent that black and white....

Let's just hope you're right, that's all i can say.

 

[A Century United]

Let's just hope you're right, that's all i can say.

And I don't think many can argue with that. :)

 

[EastStandBlue]

Let's just hope you're right, that's all i can say.

Indeed.

It's sad to say that I get the impression a few on this board would rather the club fold, just so they could be proved right.

 

[Firestorm]

In the past couple of days there have been comparisons with MK Dons and Rochdale amongst others.

So I have ahd a look a bit Further

MK Year to 30/6/09

Loss 1.23M (previous year Loss 1.12M)

Staff Costs 4.4M
Other costs 3.1M
Income 5.6M
Transfer fees 860K
Assets 2.35M
Creditors 9.7M
The bulk of the debt is due to Inter MK who is 100% Peter Winkleman, Inter MK appear to be doing the borrowing from the Financial Institutions , currently Clydesdale bank)


Shareholders deficit 7.06M (2008 5.8M)

Rochdale

Accts to 31/5/08

Very little to see, they submited abbreviated accounts which do not show a P&L just a balance sheet , so no details of income or expenditure

Just to say in the year to May 08 they made a loss of 216K
They had assets of 626K and Liabilities of 941K
Shareholders funds of 172K

So unless they get borrow heavily, but with no colateral I can't see that happening, or there is a hefty injection of capital , they will not have a great deal spare with which to add to their squad for next season.
That said, They are solvent and they appear to be prudent too.