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Rooney v Charlton

It is a fantastic achievement but I think it has to be tempered with his (and the entire squad's) inability to impress at major championships.

However unlike Rooney, Charlton tally comes from 83.7% of his goals scored in friendlies. If England hadn't won the World Cup in 66 we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
Here's Rooney's speech in the changing room after the game.

#SpoiltBrat

[video=youtube;X80F4PnOY0s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80F4PnOY0s[/video]
 
I'm not a massive Rooney fan but for me this is the wrong debate. Firstly records are there to be broken and this has been done and should be respected. Secondly I would argue that Rooney has been a fine ambassador for the game since gaining the captaincy. You could hardly say the same for either Terry or Ferdinand. Finally I would argue that Jimmy Greaves is the finest English goalscorer and so would the stats.
 
I'm not a massive Rooney fan but for me this is the wrong debate. Firstly records are there to be broken and this has been done and should be respected. Secondly I would argue that Rooney has been a fine ambassador for the game since gaining the captaincy. You could hardly say the same for either Terry or Ferdinand. Finally I would argue that Jimmy Greaves is the finest English goalscorer and so would the stats.

I understand what you mean about Terry, but what has Ferdinand done?
 
#Rooney50

Congratulations, now a member of a very elite club. Not the greatest game, but nice to be able to say I was there to see footballing history being made, and the atmosphere went up ten levels when he scored.

The only sad thing was that half the stadium never saw it live, it felt like literally half the fans in the stadium were watching through their phones, preferring to capture the moment, rather than enjoy it. I get wanting to take a picture, but the phones come out to video almost every set piece in the hopes of capturing something, how is this a way to watch and enjoy a game, it happens loads at gigs too.
 
I think England fans tend to undervalue the achievements of our modern players because they've not won any tournaments and because of the disappointment of the 'golden generation'. Gerrard, Lampard and Ashley Cole are all players who were underrated during their career for the national side. Yes a lot of Rooney's goals have come against smaller nations and he hasn't scored enough in major tournaments, but it's nevertheless a great achievement to become your country's top scorer. If anything I think since becoming captain he's gone through one of his best spells of form for England. He's someone who always plays with his heart on his sleeve and with a young squad, his experience will be invaluable at Euro 2016. It's difficult to compare him to Charlton as the game was so different then, so let's just respect his achievement for what it is.
 
I'm not a massive Rooney fan but for me this is the wrong debate. Firstly records are there to be broken and this has been done and should be respected. Secondly I would argue that Rooney has been a fine ambassador for the game since gaining the captaincy. You could hardly say the same for either Terry or Ferdinand. Finally I would argue that Jimmy Greaves is the finest English goalscorer and so would the stats.

Again, vast majority scored in friendlies.

_85443989_rooneypeers.png
 
Another thing to consider is that it's probably harder to score goals now than in Bobby Charlton's day

1958-70 averaged 3.1 goals per world cup game

2003-now average 2.4 goals per world cup game

Surprisingly, that's also the same average for Lineker's career (1984-92), despite the '90 world cup representing the low water mark.
 
Again, vast majority scored in friendlies.

_85443989_rooneypeers.png

Partly down to opportunity; England played fewer competitive games back then. Fewer countries, therefore smaller qualifying groups. Also smaller major tournaments - 16 teams in the World Cup back in the 1960s, only four in the Euros.

Anyhow, all five guys in that graphic are bona fide England legends.
 
And double argh, as was going to post this when my first post was taken.

Teams like Albania and USA are way better now than they were when Charlton was strolling through games in the 1960s.

Just look at the 1966 World Cup where his goals came against a team who'd never even qualified for a world cup before and a side whose world cup record was PL 14 W 1 D 2 L 11 F10 A 38. For those who complain that Rooney goes missing in big games, where was Charlton in the final, where he was marked out of it; where was he in the quarter-finals when England needed a late Hurst goal to sneak past 10 men? It's easy to knock players down and underplay their achievements. If scoring that many international goals was so easy, why have so few done it?

Indeed, people hold up the easy teams Rooney plays against, but in Charltons time we were scoring 8 goals or more in games, beating USA 10-0, Mexico 8-0, Luxembourg 8-0, Scotland 9-3

We might not have played San Marino back then but a lot of the teams we did play were a hundred times worse than they are today.
 
Indeed, people hold up the easy teams Rooney plays against, but in Charltons time we were scoring 8 goals or more in games, beating USA 10-0, Mexico 8-0, Luxembourg 8-0, Scotland 9-3

We might not have played San Marino back then but a lot of the teams we did play were a hundred times worse than they are today.

Always thought it remarkable that Turkey - WC semi-finalists in 2002 - were absolute mince as recently as the mid-late 80s. We beat them 8-0 back then, around the same time we put nine past Luxembourg.
 
Missed one drug test, correctly(?) called Ashley Cole a 'choc ice', is a two bob ****.

What do you reckon? More athletes than I care to remember have missed drugs tests, why single him out? Even the FA said that Cole's written statement had "evolved".
 
Can't discredit any of these achievements, all these players deserve respect. I don't rate Rooney as high as some but 50 goals is great going! I'd rate a few England strikers above him, think Owen would be the all time top scorer if it hadn't been for injury. Greaves would be top for me.
 
Well done to Rooney for breaking record. I personally don't like him but he has done v well and I am sure he has many many fans who adore him. We all have our fav players and hate players, that's what football is all about
 
That doesn't necessarily mean they are below L2 level (in the main they probably are), just means it's not their profession. I have seen some local musicians who are excellent - but not professional (as in - it's not their living).

San Marino, Gibraltar and Andorra would IMO struggle at Ryman league level. The likes of Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein (to an extent), Malta etc seem to have improved in recent years and would be nice if the others, especially Gibraltar, could do the same. Watching an England team put in boring performances yet still hammer San Marino is un-enjoyable and dull to watch.
 
Out of interest, when is Rooney playing Charlton? It'll be interesting to see what formation he plays. He could put himself in goal, but I think he would struggle to score. If he plays himself up front he may let in a few.

I think he'd be better off in a holding midfield role, with rush goalie.

Either way, I think it'll be a close match.
 
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