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Sarah Champion

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#2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-40886658

Political suicide or about bloody time someone stood up and said it?
Whatever you might think, she's shown more "balls" than most other MP's
so if only for that, I say good on her.
when crimes are reported nationality or ethnicity are often reported - you build up a picture of the criminal, I don't see any issue in that.
If crimes are not being reported or not being investigated there is no valid reason for that, anyone withholding information or turning a blind eye should be prosecuted for obstructing the law and if they are in a position of authority they should be prosecuted for neglect. It's very straightforward as far as I am concerned.
 
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#4
This whole subject is a can of worms but I suspect that if gangs of White men had been targeting Asian girls then these cases would have been seen as racially motivated crimes.
It's certainly a publically acknowledged fact that the abuse that did take place in places like Rotherham was not acted on for fear of inflaming racial tensions which only made things worse once the truth came out.
The problem with this whole subject is that the left are only concerned by racism when it's by White people and the right are prone to play it down when non-White people are affected.
 

shrimpboy

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#6
Sometimes it's perfectly ok to mention the common religious denominator and other times it isn't.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...e-in-the-church-what-it-is-catholic-extremism

I wonder how Sikhs or Japanese people feel about the description "Asian sex gangs".
Some classic Guardian hypocrisy there.

I agree, it annoys me when they're referred to as 'Asian' gangs. They are Muslim gangs, and it's a massive problem throughout the country. It's good to see that the taboo is finally starting to lift.
 

MK Shrimper

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#7
Some classic Guardian hypocrisy there.

I agree, it annoys me when they're referred to as 'Asian' gangs. They are Muslim gangs, and it's a massive problem throughout the country. It's good to see that the taboo is finally starting to lift.
I take it you work in the field or have some bone fide evidence to back this up? (and no links to dubious websites). Whilst I do find some attitudes to women henious in the Muslim faith I know this is far from the overall attitude to women and to cast every male Muslim in the same group as this scum is patently wrong as you'll find the overwhelming number of rape victims of any age or ethnicity are abused by people they know and trust, like family members.

And its not just some Muslims who treat women badly, you get it in every patriachal faith - but obviously the enemy of the moment is Muslim as those Commies are long gone.
 

callan

*Come On The Football*
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#8
I take it you work in the field or have some bone fide evidence to back this up? (and no links to dubious websites). Whilst I do find some attitudes to women henious in the Muslim faith I know this is far from the overall attitude to women and to cast every male Muslim in the same group as this scum is patently wrong as you'll find the overwhelming number of rape victims of any age or ethnicity are abused by people they know and trust, like family members.

And its not just some Muslims who treat women badly, you get it in every patriachal faith - but obviously the enemy of the moment is Muslim as those Commies are long gone.
Not sure what you're driving at here...it has been well documented that there are concerns regarding sex gangs that have a religious and cultural profile?

No one has suggested that all Muslims are perpetrators so far in this thread.
 

rigsby

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#9
Sometimes it's perfectly ok to mention the common religious denominator and other times it isn't.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...e-in-the-church-what-it-is-catholic-extremism

I wonder how Sikhs or Japanese people feel about the description "Asian sex gangs".
Muslims have been targeting Sikh girls by posing online as Sikhs. Once they have photos, or worse, they know the Sikh girl is less likely to tell her parents and the parents are less likely to involve the police. I can see some serious 'street justice' in the near future.

Still classic guardianism......immediately avoid the subject by pointing the finger at others.
 

shrimpboy

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#11
I take it you work in the field or have some bone fide evidence to back this up? (and no links to dubious websites). Whilst I do find some attitudes to women henious in the Muslim faith I know this is far from the overall attitude to women and to cast every male Muslim in the same group as this scum is patently wrong as you'll find the overwhelming number of rape victims of any age or ethnicity are abused by people they know and trust, like family members.

And its not just some Muslims who treat women badly, you get it in every patriachal faith - but obviously the enemy of the moment is Muslim as those Commies are long gone.
Where did I cast every male Muslim in the same group? I pointed out that a disproportionately high percentage of sexual crimes are carried out by Muslims. Even Trevor Phillips the former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission has admitted most grooming gangs are Muslim. They come from cultures where women are still forced to cover up from head to toe or aren't allowed out without their husbands. White girls are seen as easy prey.

Yes there's bad treatment of women in all religions but I'd say Islam is way behind others. There are countries which still stone women to death, for goodness sake. And look at the problems Germany has had since its decision to open its floodgates to migrants.

You keep burying your head in the sand if you want but it's pretty clear there's a link in all these cases.
 
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#12
Where did I cast every male Muslim in the same group? I pointed out that an extremely disproportionately high percentage of sexual crimes are carried out by Muslims. Even Trevor Phillips the former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission has admitted most grooming gangs are Muslim. They come from cultures where women are still forced to cover up from head to toe or aren't allowed out without their husbands. White girls are seen as easy prey.

Yes there's bad treatment of women in all religions but I'd say Islam is way behind others. There are countries which still stone women to death, for goodness sake. And look at the problems Germany has had since its decision to open its floodgates to migrants.

You keep burying your head in the sand if you want but it's pretty clear there's a link in all these cases.
The article I originally posted is basically saying just that. Attitudes towards women and particularly women of other cultures (in this case British culture) needs addressing in the muslim community and needs to start now.
Phone in on 5Live the other day - muslim bloke comes on and starts ranting about the sodding crusades when the topic is about abused vulnerable children?
It is the muslim community that will have to change to live in free society not everyone else change to accommodate the muslim community. The sooner the better - For everyone.
 
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#13
Some classic Guardian hypocrisy there.

I agree, it annoys me when they're referred to as 'Asian' gangs. They are Muslim gangs, and it's a massive problem throughout the country. It's good to see that the taboo is finally starting to lift.
I often read The Guardian (to get my own prejudices challenged if nothing else) but, like all the other papers no doubt, it has a track record of blatant hypocrisy. Whilst rightly urging people not to tar all Muslims with the same brush it was also the paper that said last summer that all England football fans are to blame for those English football fans who behave badly. It is a vociferous advocate for what is called 'identity politics' but when the 'wrong' type of people start discovering an identity they complain about it.
 

Lord Football

Master Of All He Surveys
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#14
If the group had been white English Christians would they have been described as white English Christians? Would she have said white English Christians? Do we say white English catholics when talking about child abuse in the church? Do we identify people as white English or white English Christians?

I don't know the answer to those questions, but if the answer is "no", then she is wrong to have said what she said in my view.



And remember, we live in a society where people brick houses because they don't know the difference between paediatrician and paedophile.
 
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#15
If the group had been white English Christians would they have been described as white English Christians? Would she have said white English Christians? Do we say white English catholics when talking about child abuse in the church? Do we identify people as white English or white English Christians?

I don't know the answer to those questions, but if the answer is "no", then she is wrong to have said what she said in my view.



And remember, we live in a society where people brick houses because they don't know the difference between paediatrician and paedophile.
You make a good point however, the article is suggesting there is a problem within the muslim community so to highlight the perpetrators as muslim is valid in my opinion. If there were gangs of catholics, hindus, jews, or those who follow yoda going around attacking vulnerable children as well as muslim gangs then the point you make would have more merit, but as far as I'm aware, there isn't.
 

MK Shrimper

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#16
You make a good point however, the article is suggesting there is a problem within the muslim community so to highlight the perpetrators as muslim is valid in my opinion. If there were gangs of catholics, hindus, jews, or those who follow yoda going around attacking vulnerable children as well as muslim gangs then the point you make would have more merit, but as far as I'm aware, there isn't.
There is within the Catholic Church. Child abuse is rife amongst priests, so much so they have their own "rehabilitation" centre.

But again, the No.1 source of rape and child abuse are people already known to the victim. I believe it accounts for something like 90% of cases.
 
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#17
If the group had been white English Christians would they have been described as white English Christians? Would she have said white English Christians? Do we say white English catholics when talking about child abuse in the church? Do we identify people as white English or white English Christians?

I don't know the answer to those questions, but if the answer is "no", then she is wrong to have said what she said in my view.



And remember, we live in a society where people brick houses because they don't know the difference between paediatrician and paedophile.
If gangs of white people or some faith or none had been targeting girls who were not white would the police, bbc, guardian, channel 4 etc be describing it as a racially motivated crime? I think the answer is probably yes. Would the authorities in Rotherham, Rochdale have acted quicker if the culprits have been white? Again I think the answer is yes.
The nub of this debate is 'political correctness' and it's hypocrisies. I think 'political correctness' should in theory be a good thing as one of it's aims was to stop racial abuse. The reason why it's got a bad name is that it's developed it's own set of prejudices, eg a willingness to turn a blind eye to wrong doing by non-white people for fear of being called a racist
 
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MK Shrimper

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#18
Champion has now distanced herself from the article and has resigned from her shadow cabinet role. Political suicide indeed.
 
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#19
Champion has now distanced herself from the article and has resigned from her shadow cabinet role. Political suicide indeed.
I bet he accepted her resignation all right.
What a pity as she was only saying what the vast majority in this country and beyond have been thinking.
It needed a politician to say what she said and being it came from the member from Rotherham and she's a Labour MP made it all the more telling. I hope she tells Corbyn where to stick it and stands as a independent.
 
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