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Breaking News Sayers signs for Tottenham

Tommy2holes

Life President⭐
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
8,875
Good luck to him.

Hopefully a few 100k up front and he goes on to be next issac hayden and makes the club some decent future cash.
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,921
Location
London
You can't hold the lad back, though, if he's good enough for a Prem club, why in the hell didn't he play in our first team.

Good club with one of the best managers in the world, he can only improve.

Aside from the fact he did play in our first team, Spurs are signing him on the basis of what he could be, not what he is.

A meteoric rise as i think this time last year he was still at Bowers. Probably means we won’t get much for him but it shows we can be a steppingstone for ambitious young players and that may lure in a few more.
 

stewart

Striker
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Messages
1,744
i reckon Spurs will give us the whiting so the groundsman can mark out the pitch and penalty spot .
 

shrimper43

Schoolboy⭐
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
683
Location
Exile
I wonder who pressed for a move. The player or the club ? I’m a bit mystified by some of the moves of our better youngsters. Dru presumably sold because we wanted the money and now playing for New York Red Bull reserves. Kelman and Hutchinson presumably wanted away and playing for Gillingham on loan (occasionally) and Derby U23’s (?) respectively. Bishop ( currently playing for Mansfield on loan) like Sayers was out of the blue and neither seem to have netted any great fee in the short term. Bwomono who wanted away is not playing at all. Bentley is the only one you’d call a success so far for both player and getting a decent fee for the club. Still time for the others of course. Time will tell.
 

Bexley Blue

My butt's for sitting, not for kissing⭐
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
5,652
Location
Bexleyheath, Greater London
I wonder who pressed for a move. The player or the club ? I’m a bit mystified by some of the moves of our better youngsters. Dru presumably sold because we wanted the money and now playing for New York Red Bull reserves. Kelman and Hutchinson presumably wanted away and playing for Gillingham on loan (occasionally) and Derby U23’s (?) respectively. Bishop ( currently playing for Mansfield on loan) like Sayers was out of the blue and neither seem to have netted any great fee in the short term. Bwomono who wanted away is not playing at all. Bentley is the only one you’d call a success so far for both player and getting a decent fee for the club. Still time for the others of course. Time will tell.

Dru Yearwood has been a regular for the NYRBs this season. 30 appearances, 20 of them starts. Was a regular starter 2nd half of the season, including in NYRBs one and only play-off game. 4 appearances this season for the reserves.
 

Danshrimper

Manager
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
2,401
I wonder who pressed for a move. The player or the club ? I’m a bit mystified by some of the moves of our better youngsters. Dru presumably sold because we wanted the money and now playing for New York Red Bull reserves. Kelman and Hutchinson presumably wanted away and playing for Gillingham on loan (occasionally) and Derby U23’s (?) respectively. Bishop ( currently playing for Mansfield on loan) like Sayers was out of the blue and neither seem to have netted any great fee in the short term. Bwomono who wanted away is not playing at all. Bentley is the only one you’d call a success so far for both player and getting a decent fee for the club. Still time for the others of course. Time will tell.
So 2 divisions and 1 division above us respectively. What’s your point?
 

kentblues

Director⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
6,464
So 2 divisions and 1 division above us respectively. What’s your point?
TBF its where we were at the time we let them go rather than where we are now that is the reference point. They weren't players who stood out as being better than that level and so if they go out on loan near term where else would it be to? They were young, and as with Sayers, were bought based on what they could be in the future.

Its is true that the significant majority of players that come up through Prem/Championship's own systems to u23s don't make it at that level (or in many cases EFL level). So its going to be not so dissimilar for youngsters they bring in.

The hope will be that loans will be with higher and higher level clubs or better they are good enough to be in and around the new clubs first team squad.

It is true that many swap regular first team football in L1 or L2 for u23 and lower (kids football as we like to call it) and in some cases this does not help their development (its why Prem clubs want their u23s included in lower league competitions -they are acutely aware of this). And when they go they aren't stupid - they must know how many don't make it and in a way professionally it can be a gamble.

BUT- if you have ambition can you really not want a move to a Prem Club if you believe in yourself. You will believe you will be one of the ones who will make it. And it might be your only opportunity to move to that level. Oh and you will get paid a lot more money whilst you find out. You will want to think the worst that will happen is like Jack Payne you will end up back at the same level a few years later but with a good few quid in the bank account.

So good luck to him.
 

OllieSteph44

Striker
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
993
Kelman and Hutchinson presumably wanted away and playing for Gillingham on loan (occasionally) and Derby U23’s (?) respectively

Charlie returned to QPR last month. A victim of the Steve Evan’s school of charm and probably a lesson learned for QPR and his agent in terms of who, where and what manager is in charge, to send a player on loan to.

Hutchinson has been a victim of circumstance at Derby where a ludicrous deal meaning a £££ for a league start and every subsequent game has made life impossible for a club who a) have had two failed take over bids in 12 months and b) are now in administration and facing a winding up order unless they can make a deal with the tax man prior to another take over going ahead. Until going into admin he was very much in the picture and very much on the fringe of the first team.

I can’t speak for them personally but I’d imagine, Kelman Hutchinson Bishop and Sayer all saw an opportunity that presented itself because of their early exposure to first team football at Southend, that was too good to turn down. None of them moved for the ‘right now’, it was the chance to move to clubs that would offer better coaching, better sports science, better strength and conditioning and better facilities. Sometimes moving up seems like a sideways or even a backwards step but you have to do this to be able to grow and move further forwards in the long term.

As for wanting away……well maybe staying would’ve been a whole lot easier if you could see some light….poorly treated during Covid, attempts at sidestepping legally binding contract issues via furlough, non payment of wages, 5 managers in 2 years and clearly poor preparation was always heading to a second relegation…I don’t think the future looked great for any of them by staying.

What I would say is the abuse levels aimed at one or two of them had reached unacceptable levels online and extended beyond football and beyond the player….and you have to consider if whether a young player looked at that and literally saw no end to it and could see no way of reversing it or the damage it was doing. Sometimes the only way out…is out….and as much as you may want to stay and play regularly and fight through it, you have to accept that it’s just too far gone and a chance to leave is a relief for everyone involved.
 

shrimpled

Director⭐
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
2,825
It's important a club like SUFC demonstrates to young talent that by signing for Southend you could get the chance to move further with your career. We have sold players to Man City, Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur, Derby County and QPR in the last couple of years - as well as having players like Dru, Elvis making a real impression on our 1st team in terms of appearances. That's a great thing for young lads/ their parents to see when they're deciding where to go as a youngster.

It (could) also help us to be build bridges and relationships with these such clubs to get first look at youngsters they'll be releasing/ young players they're looking to send on loan etc.

There has been an awful lot of criticism that we haven't been signing the best local talent and here is a great example of a lad we picked up for nothing over the summer, who wasn't getting a game at Bowers & Pitsea a year or so back, that we've sold to one of the biggest clubs in the country. Fair play to the club on this.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
767
Charlie returned to QPR last month. A victim of the Steve Evan’s school of charm and probably a lesson learned for QPR and his agent in terms of who, where and what manager is in charge, to send a player on loan to.

Hutchinson has been a victim of circumstance at Derby where a ludicrous deal meaning a £££ for a league start and every subsequent game has made life impossible for a club who a) have had two failed take over bids in 12 months and b) are now in administration and facing a winding up order unless they can make a deal with the tax man prior to another take over going ahead. Until going into admin he was very much in the picture and very much on the fringe of the first team.

I can’t speak for them personally but I’d imagine, Kelman Hutchinson Bishop and Sayer all saw an opportunity that presented itself because of their early exposure to first team football at Southend, that was too good to turn down. None of them moved for the ‘right now’, it was the chance to move to clubs that would offer better coaching, better sports science, better strength and conditioning and better facilities. Sometimes moving up seems like a sideways or even a backwards step but you have to do this to be able to grow and move further forwards in the long term.

As for wanting away……well maybe staying would’ve been a whole lot easier if you could see some light….poorly treated during Covid, attempts at sidestepping legally binding contract issues via furlough, non payment of wages, 5 managers in 2 years and clearly poor preparation was always heading to a second relegation…I don’t think the future looked great for any of them by staying.

What I would say is the abuse levels aimed at one or two of them had reached unacceptable levels online and extended beyond football and beyond the player….and you have to consider if whether a young player looked at that and literally saw no end to it and could see no way of reversing it or the damage it was doing. Sometimes the only way out…is out….and as much as you may want to stay and play regularly and fight through it, you have to accept that it’s just too far gone and a chance to leave is a relief for everyone involved.
It is logical to believe that, on leaving us, all saw their wages increase. This would have been a big issue for them as it would for any of us were we to contemplate changing employers.
Move to a better work environment and be paid more in the process?
Who would say no?
This factor should never be underestimated.
 

kentblues

Director⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
6,464
The Hutchinson observation is interesting. These deals get structured that way because the buying club wants as much as possible a "free punt". Pay as little up front as possible and they only pay out properly on those that make it. I suspect we would have jumped at more upfront. And I get why the buying club do it. You get to spread your bets at lowest initial outlay and I don't think Derby will behave any differently once they sort out their financial mess.

As a player/agent I would be very much less liking contract that has an actual penalty/disincentive to play a player, unless its not overly significant and/or triggered at levels of say 50 appearances rather than 1.

Crystal balls and all that.
 

OllieSteph44

Striker
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
993
It's important a club like SUFC demonstrates to young talent that by signing for Southend you could get the chance to move further with your career. We have sold players to Man City, Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur, Derby County and QPR in the last couple of years - as well as having players like Dru, Elvis making a real impression on our 1st team in terms of appearances. That's a great thing for young lads/ their parents to see when they're deciding where to go as a youngster.

Absolutely this.

When Hutchinson left Brighton he was left with an offer of a 3 year contract at Sparta Prague or a 1 year contract at Southend.

His reasoning (apart from not being ready to live abroad at 17) was seeing players like Dru, Elvis and at the time Lewis Gard getting opportunities to progress into the first team and make a break through. It reinforced his belief that it was attainable and was attainable in a short space of time. He made his debut 12 weeks later!

There is no doubt Southend played a huge part in his progression. If he’d stayed at BHA (or any other big club) he’d not have had the opportunities to break into first team football and play in the EFL and would’ve had to sit tight and develop in the 23s with a host of other young talents. If he’d have been lucky there may have been an opportunity to get out on loan but as he’s seen since that is notoriously difficult on and off the pitch as you’re never treated as one of the host clubs players just someone who’s passing through….the success of the loan for your parent club is t always judged on your performances but it’s terribly difficult for a player to see that and understand the bigger picture and longer term, while you’re struggling in a poor environment not playing particularly well.

Ultimately there are different pathways for all, but the opportunity if you’ve kind of fulfilled all you can at one level, to move on and challenge yourself to push on again even if it means dropping back into a bigger pool of talent and grafting away in the background again, is the only way to progress.
 
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