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Breaking News Sayers signs for Tottenham

OllieSteph44

Striker
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
1,028
The Hutchinson observation is interesting. These deals get structured that way because the buying club wants as much as possible a "free punt". Pay as little up front as possible and they only pay out properly on those that make it. I suspect we would have jumped at more upfront. And I get why the buying club do it. You get to spread your bets at lowest initial outlay and I don't think Derby will behave any differently once they sort out their financial mess.

As a player/agent I would be very much less liking contract that has an actual penalty/disincentive to play a player, unless its not overly significant and/or triggered at levels of say 50 appearances rather than 1.

Crystal balls and all that.

This demonstrates the point that he’d reached the point where getting out was getting out and we’ll worry about that later. Of course clubs limit their risk by performance based payments but in this instance it was made impossible to even see how that risk was developing due to financial restraints that were beyond the football people’s control. When administration staff come in they are there to limit expenditure and control existing debt not add to it unnecessarily.

As you say hindsight would’ve leaned much more heavily towards payments after set intervals…10 games, 20 games etc but at the time Ron was very adamant on what he wanted and of course he was very much under the cosh to release numbers squad wise to allow MM to find players who at the time were seen as much more suited to the rigours of a league 2 dog fight….
 

shrimper43

Schoolboy⭐
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
739
Location
Exile
You can absolutely understand why Sayers and the others want the moves. The current practice is that any young player that shows even a flash of talent is hoovered up by a Championship or Premier League Club. If this is best for player and our club fine. In my simple mind though is a world where a young player under contract knuckles down and proves he’s worth a first team place then when he shows promise to be too good for our level gets a move up and we have had a season or two out of a talented player, plus hopefully a fee and the player moves up to a level he’s capable of sustaining. I need some convincing still that the current practice is genuinely in the interests of young players and lower league clubs.
 

Jai

President
Joined
Nov 27, 2003
Messages
6,345
Location
Witham
Charlie returned to QPR last month. A victim of the Steve Evan’s school of charm and probably a lesson learned for QPR and his agent in terms of who, where and what manager is in charge, to send a player on loan to.

Hutchinson has been a victim of circumstance at Derby where a ludicrous deal meaning a £££ for a league start and every subsequent game has made life impossible for a club who a) have had two failed take over bids in 12 months and b) are now in administration and facing a winding up order unless they can make a deal with the tax man prior to another take over going ahead. Until going into admin he was very much in the picture and very much on the fringe of the first team.

I can’t speak for them personally but I’d imagine, Kelman Hutchinson Bishop and Sayer all saw an opportunity that presented itself because of their early exposure to first team football at Southend, that was too good to turn down. None of them moved for the ‘right now’, it was the chance to move to clubs that would offer better coaching, better sports science, better strength and conditioning and better facilities. Sometimes moving up seems like a sideways or even a backwards step but you have to do this to be able to grow and move further forwards in the long term.

As for wanting away……well maybe staying would’ve been a whole lot easier if you could see some light….poorly treated during Covid, attempts at sidestepping legally binding contract issues via furlough, non payment of wages, 5 managers in 2 years and clearly poor preparation was always heading to a second relegation…I don’t think the future looked great for any of them by staying.

What I would say is the abuse levels aimed at one or two of them had reached unacceptable levels online and extended beyond football and beyond the player….and you have to consider if whether a young player looked at that and literally saw no end to it and could see no way of reversing it or the damage it was doing. Sometimes the only way out…is out….and as much as you may want to stay and play regularly and fight through it, you have to accept that it’s just too far gone and a chance to leave is a relief for everyone involved.
Great post. I never understand why people question players who leave the club. There's a reason we're left with a set of players that nobody else wants.

FFS our players can't even get a hot shower after training. This club has been run into the ground.
 

kentblues

Director⭐
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
6,572
This demonstrates the point that he’d reached the point where getting out was getting out and we’ll worry about that later. Of course clubs limit their risk by performance based payments but in this instance it was made impossible to even see how that risk was developing due to financial restraints that were beyond the football people’s control. When administration staff come in they are there to limit expenditure and control existing debt not add to it unnecessarily.

As you say hindsight would’ve leaned much more heavily towards payments after set intervals…10 games, 20 games etc but at the time Ron was very adamant on what he wanted and of course he was very much under the cosh to release numbers squad wise to allow MM to find players who at the time were seen as much more suited to the rigours of a league 2 dog fight….
I expect Ron didn't really want the one game and you pay a big chunk- he will have wanted to negotiate away a lot of the add ons for more up front.
 

OllieSteph44

Striker
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
1,028
I expect Ron didn't really want the one game and you pay a big chunk- he will have wanted to negotiate away a lot of the add ons for more up front.
Of course but in the absence of an upfront fee, if derby convinced him the first appearance fee wasn’t that far off then it’s the next best thing.

Trust me there were / are plenty of add ons but with how derby have gone over the past year i don’t see Ron getting a thing. Arsenal have offered Derby a payment freeze on add ons associated with Krystian Bielik for that very reason….Derby’s situation simply means anyone wanting their money now = a problem. Arsenals are owed a set amount per month regardless so offering to delay the payments is just common sense and is the decent thing for a club of their resources. For Derby and Hutchinson not using him simply means they owe nothing. The only losers are the player and Southend.
 

Cricko

Zone Owner ⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Messages
33,488
Location
Leigh-On-Sea
Great post. I never understand why people question players who leave the club. There's a reason we're left with a set of players that nobody else wants.

FFS our players can't even get a hot shower after training. This club has been run into the ground.
Luxury, we used to have to get up 6 hours before we went to sleep, work 36 hours a day for sixpence every 4 years..etc etc.
 

SS9_Shrimper

Newbie⭐
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
90
Location
SS9
The thing about Sayers is that he’s 17 and seems to have developed his man strength early. He looks to be the naturally athletic type. A lot of people will only develop that strength and muscle mass around 22 upwards.

From Spurs perspective, the risk of him not growing to a good size has already been negated, so they only have to concentrate on the footballing side. He’s shown he can play a bit as well, so good luck to him.
 

Chrisb

Forever Blue⭐
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
2,424
Location
Rayleigh
Elvis stayed with us and got lots of first team experience but that hasn't worked out well for him now (not looking to start another debate about him on this thread just citing an example). On the other hand Dan Bentley has done well.
 
Last edited:

Pak66

Newbie
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
274
Location
Southend-on-sea
No disrespect to the lad but he will go the same way as some of our other youngsters who have left.
Spurs will be thinking 17? playing in Southend first team !
Then if southend have fooled them enough Spurs will pay a fee for him considered peanuts by them and a fortune by Southend.
If we are all prepared to be honest he is not and will not be good enough for Spurs first team and will most probably end up playing for some far distant flung club but be on a far far better deal than he will ever be at Southend.
 

MattE

Manager⭐
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
3,500
No disrespect to the lad but he will go the same way as some of our other youngsters who have left.
Spurs will be thinking 17? playing in Southend first team !
Then if southend have fooled them enough Spurs will pay a fee for him considered peanuts by them and a fortune by Southend.
If we are all prepared to be honest he is not and will not be good enough for Spurs first team and will most probably end up playing for some far distant flung club but be on a far far better deal than he will ever be at Southend.
You're probably right - but I'd guess that he has improved his odds of playing in the Spurs first team by moving to them. I'll make up some numbers but it might be 1 in a 1,000 chance if stayed with us to say 1 in 200?? And in the meantime I suspect he's got a pay rise!
 

RHB

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
24,471
Location
Westcliff riviera
No disrespect to the lad but he will go the same way as some of our other youngsters who have left.
Spurs will be thinking 17? playing in Southend first team !
Then if southend have fooled them enough Spurs will pay a fee for him considered peanuts by them and a fortune by Southend.
If we are all prepared to be honest he is not and will not be good enough for Spurs first team and will most probably end up playing for some far distant flung club but be on a far far better deal than he will ever be at Southend.
I've watched him a few times in the first team, and each time he has played (friendlies and NL) he has improved with each game in my opinion. It's very difficult to judge a young teenager when he is playing in a defence stretched to buggery most games, and let's face it, he was in because of injuries to more established players but still got selected again. So what can you take from that? Well, the Spurs scouts obviously saw enough potential to brief the club to invite him for a trial. As a result of the trial he has now been offered a two year contract, so experienced judges of professional footballers saw enough to suggest his potential is worth having. As for going the same way as some of our other players, well, as some having already posted, the only way is up.
 

JAllen

Injury Room
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
620
Good on him, whether it works out at Spurs or not, he'll most likely find himself at a higher club than the National League anyway, if not, than that was his judgement to take.

Signing for a Premier League teams youth may only come round once in your career.
 

mfurok

Manager⭐
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,326
No disrespect to the lad but he will go the same way as some of our other youngsters who have left.
Spurs will be thinking 17? playing in Southend first team !
Then if southend have fooled them enough Spurs will pay a fee for him considered peanuts by them and a fortune by Southend.
If we are all prepared to be honest he is not and will not be good enough for Spurs first team and will most probably end up playing for some far distant flung club but be on a far far better deal than he will ever be at Southend.
For a seventeen year old his first few performances were very promising.

Also his attitude was very good and he didn’t appear to be overawed at any time.

Thanks for your contribution Charlie and best of luck with your career.
 

Leigh_Seasider

South Stand Loyal⭐
Joined
Aug 31, 2019
Messages
3,765
Location
Leigh-on-Sea
Charlie returned to QPR last month. A victim of the Steve Evan’s school of charm and probably a lesson learned for QPR and his agent in terms of who, where and what manager is in charge, to send a player on loan to.

Hutchinson has been a victim of circumstance at Derby where a ludicrous deal meaning a £££ for a league start and every subsequent game has made life impossible for a club who a) have had two failed take over bids in 12 months and b) are now in administration and facing a winding up order unless they can make a deal with the tax man prior to another take over going ahead. Until going into admin he was very much in the picture and very much on the fringe of the first team.

I can’t speak for them personally but I’d imagine, Kelman Hutchinson Bishop and Sayer all saw an opportunity that presented itself because of their early exposure to first team football at Southend, that was too good to turn down. None of them moved for the ‘right now’, it was the chance to move to clubs that would offer better coaching, better sports science, better strength and conditioning and better facilities. Sometimes moving up seems like a sideways or even a backwards step but you have to do this to be able to grow and move further forwards in the long term.

As for wanting away……well maybe staying would’ve been a whole lot easier if you could see some light….poorly treated during Covid, attempts at sidestepping legally binding contract issues via furlough, non payment of wages, 5 managers in 2 years and clearly poor preparation was always heading to a second relegation…I don’t think the future looked great for any of them by staying.

What I would say is the abuse levels aimed at one or two of them had reached unacceptable levels online and extended beyond football and beyond the player….and you have to consider if whether a young player looked at that and literally saw no end to it and could see no way of reversing it or the damage it was doing. Sometimes the only way out…is out….and as much as you may want to stay and play regularly and fight through it, you have to accept that it’s just too far gone and a chance to leave is a relief for everyone involved.
Hopefully things work out for Isaac as he hasn’t really had the best environment at either Southend or Derby to thrive. Likewise Charlie and QPR.
 

Special Blue

Coach⭐
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
1,684
For a seventeen year old his first few performances were very promising.

Also his attitude was very good and he didn’t appear to be overawed at any time.

Thanks for your contribution Charlie and best of luck with your career.
Very much this!
Certainly work in progress but convinced will have a great future within the game
All the best Charlie..
 

Shrimperjohn

Newbie⭐
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
270
Wondering if the timing of this is a coincidence in that with the current Ron situation and the lack of much needed income through minimal home games this month a much needed cash injection, perhaps up front, from Spurs will steady the ship to some extent.
 

Murkey_Mouse

President
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
5,929
Location
Benfleet
You know what guys? When a football league come for their players, National league side always said, they cannot stand in their players way, but to let them take their opportunity when they had a chance. It’s rare when a Premiership side, never mind an side that looking to challenge for top 4, with best stadium in the world and best training facilities in Europe, come for him, with triples his SUFC wages - come for Sayers, rather let him go there now, than in 7 years time, he would be bitter and angry that SUFC deny his chance of a big move.
 
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