Post-Match Thread and Ratings Scunthorpe United 4-1 Southend United

[Chris Powell's mate]

Ian Holloway with Cox as his assistant

Unlikely. Ollie gets well paid for media work, and one look at the Southend squad and budget would be all he needs.

 

[Sherif H]

Only went because I was halfway up the Country already for work, but still...£25 and a four hour drive home to be served up that abomination was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
I've been saying Powell will take us down for weeks, to much laughter and derision, but nobody is laughing now.
This squad and manager don't have the stomach or character for a fight. To go to a place like Scunthorpe where they concede a bucket load of goals and proceed to give up playing after their equaliser was totally beyond belief, and the other three goals came in something like 9 minutes or less?? Pathetic.

I say every week how bad Mantom and Dieng are as a central midfield pairing, but in truth, everybody else apart from Cox, Bishop and Wabo (when he came on) deserved sacking after that second half showing.
We need leaders on and off the pitch, and Mantom is almost a reflection of the manager in his current state - mentally weak, mute and devoid of any ideas how to motivate the rest of the players. He has to go now.
If this was Brown, people would be running on the pitch chucking season cards at the directors' box...

 

[rigsby]

Based on watching it on iFollow:

Bishop - 6 - A good first half but felt he looked heavy footed in the second half
Demitriou - 7 - Was up for it and clearly cares. An upgrade on Elvis
Turner - 5 - Ok on the ball but has to be a leader in the box, and take responsibility for how we defended in the wind
Moore - 5 - Going through a poor run
Lennon - 5 - Ok in the first half but perhaps too much too soon for him as he gets to match fitness
Hart - 7 - Continues to improve and impress
Mantom - 6 - Worked hard and clearly care
Hyam - 5 - Ok on the ball but didn't offer the defence the protection he did at Blackpool
Dieng - 3 - Cruised through the game doing naff all. Should be dropped for that
Cox - 8 - Great first half and worked hard, deserves more from his teammates
Bunn - 6 - Positive first half but faded a lot


Subs:
Wabo - 6 - Not (yet) the answer. Kelman offers more
McLaughlin - 5 - Some awful shots and little else. Shouldn't be near the team at the moment
Kightly - 4 - Clearly can't be arsed. Bin him off into the U21s

I felt sorry for Powell because the confidence did drain out of us after the Scunthorpe equaliser, and there is nothing really for him to work with from the bench to try and get us into it.

Think we need a big freshen-up on Saturday in a must win game and Powell's neck on the line.

I see pretty much the same from a juddering iFollow.

Was impressed with Hart early on and Cox and Bunn linked up well and found space to exploit. Bunn seemed to go quiet after his injury. That said in other mathces he does have that wide player trait of drifting in and out of games.

Shame for Bishop it has happened to all keepers but not always in such vital circumstances

Not sure what some of the great tacticians on here would do to stop miss hit crosses in the wind or their keeper slipping.

 

[Jay_SUFC]

The Echo report suggests our last sub was made whilst we were defending a set piece.

If this is the case, then this shows how poor CP has become, as everyone knows that you don't do that.

 

[GDM]

People were quick to crtitise Browns signing as over the hill high earners...but we'd be down already if it wasn't for Simon Cox
To be honest if Powell loses his job it'll be becuase he signed both Mantom and Dieng - niether over the hill, just very, very **** footballers

 

[rigsby]

The Echo report suggests our last sub was made whilst we were defending a set piece.

If this is the case, then this shows how poor CP has become, as everyone knows that you don't do that.

That rule doesn't apply when your 3-1 down.

The game was lost but CP is entitled to expect more from his CB's. far to many free headers this season and some of them very costly.

 

[rigsby]

People were quick to crtitise Browns signing as over the hill high earners...but we'd be down already if it wasn't for Simon Cox
To be honest if Powell loses his job it'll be becuase he signed both Mantom and Dieng - niether over the hill, just very, very **** footballers

No it will be because of injuries. If Hopper hadn't of got injured or Humphrys we would be mid table and comfortable. Then add Oxley Demetriou, Coker and even Dru. and you have the answer staring you in the face.

The loss of form to McL, Kightly, Bunn, Dru and the loss of Barrett has meant he has had to play similar players in midfield you might want to look at some of those off the pitch rather than the ones on it.

 

[mfurok]

Really? And he did what exactly? The point in his favour is he wasn't on very long, and with the game lost.

Ran about like he was bothered, made a few successful challenges and found his man with a few passes.

Not bad for a brief cameo and similar to his few minutes at Northampton last season.

 

[Jay_SUFC]

No it will be because of injuries. If Hopper hadn't of got injured or Humphrys we would be mid table and comfortable. Then add Oxley Demetriou, Coker and even Dru. and you have the answer staring you in the face.

The loss of form to McL, Kightly, Bunn, Dru and the loss of Barrett has meant he has had to play similar players in midfield you might want to look at some of those off the pitch rather than the ones on it.

I get what you're saying, but who's responsible for the loss of form of so many players.

That is just a coincidence, poor management and/or coaching must be playing a part

 

[GDM]

No it will be because of injuries. If Hopper hadn't of got injured or Humphrys we would be mid table and comfortable. Then add Oxley Demetriou, Coker and even Dru. and you have the answer staring you in the face.

The loss of form to McL, Kightly, Bunn, Dru and the loss of Barrett has meant he has had to play similar players in midfield you might want to look at some of those off the pitch rather than the ones on it.

I fully understand the injuries and do feel sorry for Powell and he has every right to justify our position based on some real bad luck.
But I believe these two have signifcanlty contributed to our position - and that were signed by Powell. Hyam and Dru for me in the centre on Saturday, Dru out of form it better than these two...just my opinon of course!

 

[Napster]

Looking at his manager stats, he's performing how his career suggests..

Leicester City (caretaker) P1 W1 D0 L0 100.00%
Charlton Athletic P161 W66 D43 L52 40.99%
Huddersfield Town P57 W15 D20 L22 26.32%
Derby County (caretaker) P2 W1 D1 L 0 50.00%
Southend United P64 W24 D13 L27 37.50%
Total P285 W107 D77 L101 37.54%

 

[duncan bulgaria]

IMO the most crucial pairing in Football is your CM's , we have 2 that are powder puff and although technically fairly gifted on the ball its not enough at this level , we need leaders and characters out there at the moment, we are crying out for an experienced CM to steady the ship and manage the game in a more mature way. We seem to get bossed in every game by teh opposition's midfield pairing.

As soon as we concede we seem to panic and really go into meltdown , unfortunately i don;t see anyone that fits the mold in our current squad - the belief has gone and for me only a change in management would install some new belief and spirit back into the side.

 

[meerkat54]

Looking at his manager stats, he's performing how his career suggests..

Leicester City (caretaker) P1 W1 D0 L0 100.00%
Charlton Athletic P161 W66 D43 L52 40.99%
Huddersfield Town P57 W15 D20 L22 26.32%
Derby County (caretaker) P2 W1 D1 L 0 50.00%
Southend United P64 W24 D13 L27 37.50%
Total P285 W107 D77 L101 37.54%

Well Powell is bang on the average with us then, what more can we expect ?

 

[Grapevine]

Ok, let me state very clearly from the getgo that I am very firmly in the Powell IN camp....firstly I see no suitable replacement right now, secondly I fail to see what replacing him can achieve in such a short space of time and finally and most importantly when it is time to replace a manager, first and foremost you need to assess who can take the club forwards long term and try and identify someone who will utilise the assets the club already has...ie a great set up from the academy upwards....none of these things will be or can be achieved if you try to select a new manager in these circumstances aiming for short term success (ie staying up).

For those that want or have suggested Steve Evans, do your homework. Not just on Wiki, actaully delve into things....and read a chapter or two of a book by Ben Smith called “Journeyman”.......

If you think “just til the end of the season” will be ok, consider how that’ll work out if he does manage to keep us up and finishes in exactly the position we’re in now....and think of the tide of people who will be fooled into wanting him kept on.....then be prepared for the end of your young players and get ready to welcome 6’4” journeymen and games you can watch from outside while the ball travels end to end....

Then be prepared to see your club in financial ruin in 3 years time and in pieces on and off the field....

That all said, I do think CP has made some monumental errors in his media approach and his long term planning of how to stay out of and then get out of, trouble.

His approach to the media has proved to be a self fulfilling prophecy. He has almost talked his way into the doldrums....I think in his defence he is a very honest man and he has found himself being too open and too honest for his own good. Realistically we all knew things were difficult and we all knew we were up against it but to keep making reference to the problems has led everyone down the “poor us” route to the point that it became annoyingly accurate and annoyingly self pitying.

We have witnessed the minor errors such as the reference to his subs v Portsmouth...which in a normal sequence of events wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow and could even be seen as a positive, but in our currant climate they were seized upon as being detrimental towards those players - which is definitely NOT how he meant it I’m sure.

Last night I think he made another minor error that may or may not have had an effect.....but a public reminder to everyone least of all Nathan Bishop that Mark Oxley was back training Thursday just just unnecessary and ludicrous. I’m not saying he should’ve come out an dsaid that Bishop was No 1 but I don’t think pre match it was something that needed referencing at all. Given that in every other position senior players have walked back into the starting line up at the expense of “young” players it can’t have had anything but an unsettling effect on Bishop. It may just be sod’s law but that comment alone then highlighted the unfortunate slip that lead to the third goal. I have no doubt at all now that Oxley will play Saturday....

In terms of selections and performance, you simply cannot argue with the excuse that injuries have decimated what looked a promising squad.

To be a manager in this situation must be soul destroying and there are so many issues that affect the camp other than who is available on a Saturday.

Morale is affected as senior players look around them and feel vulnerable....the banter and mood on the training pitch and dressing room is affected as young players are naturally quieter and shy and it leads to a dull environment....you cannot plan or work on anything of value with players being nursed through the week in order to be available to play at the weekend....you become wary of further injuries and tone down the intensity at training, you limit all contact at training and it eventually numbs the competitive environment that is needed. Ultimately players at this level thrive on competition and withou the threat of someone taking your place you ease off and over a period of time you lose sharpness.

Where they have gone wrong (IMO only) is the failure to have an identity and a style of play and a longevity of game plan on place that players of all levels in the squad can trust and fit into....and in turn continue to put round pegs in round holes (as far as possible) to suit that plan. I understand sometimes you simply have to make something fit in order to accommodate a certain player who you feel makes you stronger but we have (and I include supporters in this) chopped and changed formation, personnel, style and game plan too often and to reactionary to whatever happens right now!

As far back as January I questioned the form of Macca and Kightly and whether had Hutchinson been given a run in the side whether he would now be producing better form than either? The same can be said of Dru and playing through a poor patch, more recently Klass came in and was then binned after one poor game and this week we saw Charlie Kelman get thrown in like he was a saviour and by the end of last nights game the feeling is after 15 mins that Wabo should now play....

It smacks of short term desperation, from us all.

One of my biggest gripes has been perception based opinions of individuals based on the result of the game.....

There have been some seriously below average performers that have escaped criticism due to it being a reasonably good result...there have been some actually quite promising performances that have been severely criticised following a bad result....both individually AND as a team!!!

I listened to Dean Saunders speak regarding Aurther Cox....when he was at Derby....He said that you pick a team and a formation with a game plan each week....if you sneak a win but you know really that you didn’t play well and certain individuals under performed don’t let that cloud your judgement and be brave enough to try and improve what you did regardless of the fact that you won.....likewise, if you lose but you look at the game and you think you actually played well got most things right but we’re undone by some poor refereeing, a bit of bad luck or simply beaten by a better side, don’t go rushing to change everything just because you lost.....

To do this you have to have a far more objective view of the games and of the players...and of your opposition!!!!! You have to take into consideration how they played and all the circumstances and not just judge a player a team or a performance based on whether you won drew or lost!!!

I’d also say we have to try and avoid judging players who start a game in the same way as the ones that finished it....the game that finishes is a very different one to the game at the beginning....someone coming on and exploiting a situation with 15 to go can be and is often the result of someone else’s efforts for 75 minutes who may have actaully had no individual joy but who over the way for someone to exploit after....

Anyway, enough from me.....what can we do now to change things?

Not a lot in my eyes....get behind the players / team / manager.....work hard as players, take your chances, stay in games while you have a bad spell.....most importantly, HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF LUCK.....it’s so important to any team at any level!!!!

 

[rigsby]

I get what you're saying, but who's responsible for the loss of form of so many players.

That is just a coincidence, poor management and/or coaching must be playing a part

Dru's problem started in the last game last season. Two set backs during his recovery meant we barely see him Cox and Hopper on the same pitch.

He played well at Gills and then was kicked of the park up at Sunderland as well as denied our second clear penalty of the day. You could see after that he was carrying an injury but by trying to play him into form he seemed to get worse. Lets be honest there have been home games where he has been hiding and then we had the unfortunate slip at Charlton. So lets not claim for one second its a surprise that he hasn't made the starting 11 lately.

He progressed nicely under CP last season so I would say its a combination of things, including PL interest rather than all down to CP.

Bunn has had a stop start season through injury, rather like Kightly did last year. Yes Kightly has been disappointing this year but a player with that experience should not need 'coaching' from CP.....I doubt McCormack has needed any coaching at Luton.

McL was probably not far behind Oxley and Dru as CP's best player last season. I have seen a couple of time s where everything he tried just didn't come off. wingers are often confidence players and rarely have consistent seasons. For what ever reason it he just hasn't hit the levels he did last year.

So what we have ended up with is a midfield that don't produce to much going forward. But there isn't a person amongst us who did not expect Dru to be leading the way with at least one wide player like McL with at times Barrett or Kightly on the other flank. with a Mantom or a Hyam doing what they do best and just picking up the lose ball and giving back to those very players.

If you remember back to that lovely summers day and the first 45 v Doncaster in August. Then that's exactly what happened. Mantom and Hyam kept on the pressure by winning lose balls and giving it to Kightly and McL or Hopper and Cox. Unfortunately we didn't take our chances and then fell asleep for some cheap goals...….Ring any bells?

 

[Fairport]

IMO the most crucial pairing in Football is your CM's , we have 2 that are powder puff and although technically fairly gifted on the ball its not enough at this level , we need leaders and characters out there at the moment, we are crying out for an experienced CM to steady the ship and manage the game in a more mature way. We seem to get bossed in every game by teh opposition's midfield pairing.

As soon as we concede we seem to panic and really go into meltdown , unfortunately i don;t see anyone that fits the mold in our current squad - the belief has gone and for me only a change in management would install some new belief and spirit back into the side.

We also need midfielders who can contribute to the goals tally, this was where Wordsworth was useful. This has been a problem all season apart from a short spell when Mantom found the net a few times.

 

[Jai]

We're crying out for someone to run beyond the strikers like Wordsworth used to.

Let's not forget though that he spent about three or four months of every season on the sidelines and went missing defensively, so I'm not sure it's actual Wordsworth we need.

 

[Zeuss]

I see pretty much the same from a juddering iFollow.

Was impressed with Hart early on and Cox and Bunn linked up well and found space to exploit. Bunn seemed to go quiet after his injury. That said in other mathces he does have that wide player trait of drifting in and out of games.

Shame for Bishop it has happened to all keepers but not always in such vital circumstances

Not sure what some of the great tacticians on here would do to stop miss hit crosses in the wind or their keeper slipping.

We should all be praying that Oxley is somewhere near full fitness by Saturday—Bishop has shown promise but sadly won’t be what we need for a few years yet.
Powell chose 3 of the 4 proper centre-backs that we now have available,but sadly I think ,not Kiernan,who on the few occasions I’ve seen him and by reputation,is an excellent talker and organiser at the back.
I’m sorry but I don’t want to see John White again—obviously he wouldn’t be retained if we managed to stay up.

 

[Stuart W]

We should all be praying that Oxley is somewhere near full fitness by Saturday—Bishop has shown promise but sadly won’t be what we need for a few years yet.
Powell chose 3 of the 4 proper centre-backs that we now have available,but sadly I think ,not Kiernan,who on the few occasions I’ve seen him and by reputation,is an excellent talker and organiser at the back.
I’m sorry but I don’t want to see John White again—obviously he wouldn’t be retained if we managed to stay up.

Don't worry. If White is (unfairly) released, you will still have Bishop to slag off next season.

 

[Chrisb]

We should all be praying that Oxley is somewhere near full fitness by Saturday—Bishop has shown promise but sadly won’t be what we need for a few years yet.
Powell chose 3 of the 4 proper centre-backs that we now have available,but sadly I think ,not Kiernan,who on the few occasions I’ve seen him and by reputation,is an excellent talker and organiser at the back.
I’m sorry but I don’t want to see John White again—obviously he wouldn’t be retained if we managed to stay up.

At least John White puts in 100% effort and looks interested, unlike Dieng for instance.