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Can someone please explain to me why steel businesses are seen by some as government-sponsored employment programmes rather than being part of an industry where companies sink or swim dependent upon their success?

Crikey, that's a naive question......it assumes a level playing field across the world for the steel industry and misses the point about strategic industries in an increasingly dangerous geo-political situation, but it doesn't really belong on a football fans forum. Some of the Scunthorpe fans will be working in the "government-sponsored employment programme" to which you refer - what's Scunthorpe FC's nickname again....? It seems a perfectly valid request from their fans and each individual Southend fan can decide whether he supports it or not.
 
"Steel itself is vital for just about everything we use. Whether it is buildings, clothes, chemical, cars, lamps or drinks cans - all depend on it at some point."

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34581945

There are plenty of "niche markets" in all of the above industries (as well as the precision engineering, aerospace and armaments industries,which have been mentioned elsewhere on this thread).

Ok, I get that but why MUST every major economy be a manufacturer?

Apologies for diverting this thread folks. As I hope some of you know by now, it's not usually my style but when I don't understand something I prefer to ask questions in the hope of becoming educated. I'll leave the question of whether SZ is the optimal place for this aside for one moment.

And, for the avoidance of doubt, I have sympathy with anyone who loses their job or faces the prospect of doing so. I have experienced redundancy, I know exactly how it feels.
 
Oi, this is the Chit Chat you chaps. Off to the politics one right now, the pair of you otherwise Barna will re-enter the fray.
 
Sickening how many Southend fans have an "alright by me jack" attitude. Assume you lot walk past a homeless man and think "crackhead" and walk past council estates and think "lazy spongers". Need to wake up and see what is happening.

And what are you going to do? Flash your smart phone and gnash your teeth? Its a fact that the only time anything changes in this country is when you hit the pockets of the nation as a whole and miraculously they fight the cause on a united front ( The poll tax debacle being the prime example.)

We can have our loved ones brought back from foreign shores in body bags even though the war was 'illegal.' We can have our economy decimated by the very financial sector that is destroying our manufacturing industry and then bail them out with money from the rank and file. We can stand by and watch the dismantling of our essential services. What makes you or anyone else think there will be any force of unity that is going to do beggar all about the steel industry? Apathy is a national pastime.
 
Nope. Your turn.

I don't know. But as I said, the general public saved the arses of these greedy sods, and allowed them to continue to pay huge bonuses. Neither have they learnt their lessons because, as I understand it, sub-prime mortgages are back in.
 
My take on it is that the UK Steel model was unsustainable with the Chinese flooding the market with cheap steel.

However, there are swathes of people affected by this and they need support. Thousands have been made unemployed by the collapse of the industry with entire communities suffering hardship.

The Government needs to establish enterprise zones in Middlesbrough, Scunthorpe et al to encourage new industry to these regions immediately. They also need to make retraining affordable and help those who need it.

I, for one, will be lighting up for this.
 
Wow. I read the first few political posts - and fast forwarded to the last comments.
I cannot believe anyone is engaging in the rights and wrongs of steel policy in the UK. That is not the point.
It was a simple request to show support for those in Scunthorpe who could lose their jobs, potentially their homes and future.
Is not rocket-science to care for others - no matter what your political views.
 
Seeing as I was born in a council house and have been homeless, I'd say I am pretty much awake to what is happening. Market forces, WTO regulation and EU legistation are the main reasons that steel plants in the UK are failing.

Not to mention Chinese "dumping" (because existing WTO regulation and EU legislation is not being strictly enforced).
 
Ok, I get that but why MUST every major economy be a manufacturer?

Apologies for diverting this thread folks. As I hope some of you know by now, it's not usually my style but when I don't understand something I prefer to ask questions in the hope of becoming educated. I'll leave the question of whether SZ is the optimal place for this aside for one moment.

And, for the avoidance of doubt, I have sympathy with anyone who loses their job or faces the prospect of doing so. I have experienced redundancy, I know exactly how it feels.

Perhaps "should" would have been a better word to use than "must".

Basically, for the same reason that advanced economies with any sense (eg Germany,France and Italy etc) also retain control of their own R and D industries (as well as steel).

Because these industries are strategically important and provide high paying jobs in our globalised world.

Glad to hear you're sympathetic to anyone who has suffered redudancy,btw.

I am also, since I too know how it feels.
 
Not to mention Chinese "dumping" (because existing WTO reguslation and EU legislation is not being strictly enforced).


I rarely disagree with you on matters of substance, but anyone who knows anything about how you bring goods into the EU could explain to you why that statement is wrong. I could bore you with how the technicalities work, but I wont.

This thread really is about supporting people who for no fault of their own have found themselves in a difficult position. We should show them solidarity, because you never know, it could happen here in Southend soon.
 
Hear hear. The whole point of this is not the viability of the UK steel industry and the politics that goes with it. It is about supporting a community that is about to have its heart ripped out. It could happen in steel, mining, insurance (Victoria Avenue is looking great these days isn't it), retail, any industry you care to mention. The fact is it is happening to Scunthorpe and it's not too much to ask to have some sympathy for their fans who are affected.

And yeah shining a light on a mobile phone might not make any difference to the eventual outcome, but it shows solidarity and that can be a comfort to people, knowing others are behind them. Not too much to ask to hold a mobile phone in the air for two minutes for that, is it?
 
Well if we can bail out the banks who brought the world to its knees by their greed than maybe we could spare a few billion for the people who actually make something of use.

If the banks had gone tits up they would have taken your pension and everyone else's with them.
 
If the banks had gone tits up they would have taken your pension and everyone else's with them.

I'm no expert, but if you google it a lot of real experts disagree.

http://blogs.wsj.com/iainmartin/2009/12/04/what-if-the-banks-hadnt-been-bailed-out/

“I continue to believe that the moral aspect of this is totally under-reported. In the bailouts we identified some of the richest people in the world – bank bondholders, bank employees, bank depositors with cash sums in excess of deposit insurance thresholds – and used money raised in taxes on the poor to spare those rich people the consequences of their mistakes. How is that the press is not more outraged by this? And why is there so little outrage that whereas when miners and shipbuilders and car manufacturers argued that there were systemic consequences from the shut-down of their companies – blighting whole regions for a generation – we all (rightly, in my view) said they had to be sacrificed on the altar of the free market, but when it’s bankers and London that’s involved, suddenly systemic effects and the misery of unemployment are rediscovered? It has absolutely, unequivocally, been one rule for the rich and another for the poor; and one rule for London and the South-East and another for Yorkshire, Wales, and Belfast. I think that’s immoral, and I am disappointed that so few journalists seem to be able to see it.”
 
If the banks had gone tits up they would have taken your pension and everyone else's with them.

And if the correct people had been held accountable for the vulgar activities the banks participated in then it would be a cold day in hell before it happened again.
 
Wow. I read the first few political posts - and fast forwarded to the last comments.
I cannot believe anyone is engaging in the rights and wrongs of steel policy in the UK. That is not the point.
It was a simple request to show support for those in Scunthorpe who could lose their jobs, potentially their homes and future.
Is not rocket-science to care for others - no matter what your political views.

Its not rocket-science I agree. It is however a scenario predicted by a bunch of pen pushing, pin stripes that make the decisions. Businessmen and politicians alike will have sat behind their mahogany desk, fiddling with their Aspinal fountain pen and considered the consequences. I bet they chuckled at the prospect of a smart phone light show. Good Lord! They may even have to face public outcry on Question Time.

Showing solidarity means absolutely nothing unless the new found unity is prepared to take action. Unfortunately in this country the action is limited to voting out a Government when suitably outraged. That leads to A N Other Government that is no better than the last and rarely any different.

If people want to come up with a better suggestion for support then I will be at the front of the line when action speaks louder than words. Still no guarantee of success but the impact may eventually erode the apathy.
 
I rarely disagree with you on matters of substance, but anyone who knows anything about how you bring goods into the EU could explain to you why that statement is wrong. I could bore you with how the technicalities work, but I wont.

This thread really is about supporting people who for no fault of their own have found themselves in a difficult position. We should show them solidarity, because you never know, it could happen here in Southend soon.

I fully agree with you that this thread should be all about showing solidarity to those people in Scunthorpe who risk losing their jobs in the near future.

As others have already pointed out, something similar has already happened in Southend-back in the 80's- with the closure of the insurance,accountancy firms in Victoria Avenue,the loss of Access,Ecko Plastics etc

I'm also quite happy to be corrected (as always) on any matter of fact.

Indeed, I notice from this article that the EU has been responsible for saving what is left of the UK steel industry.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...es-UK-industry-facing-fight-for-survival.html

Dumping by the Chinese (and others) is a globally acknowledged fact,whether the WTO or the EU is responsible for letting it happen.
 
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