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Pre-Match Thread Scunthorpe United vs Southend Utd

What's your starting eleven for Tuesday night?


  • Total voters
    81
  • Poll closed .
And on that note I'd be interested in your views on how best to utilise Isaac Hutchinson? I see him as most effective for now as a sub, coming on against tired legs once the game has opened up. I'd be looking at giving him 20-25 minute cameos most weeks.

The comparison with Dru is interesting. They've both experienced a similar amount of success at adult football - about half a season each (albeit Dru's was in the first team last season) and are now having to deal with football prehaps not being easy for maybe the first time in their lives. Hopefully both will learn and be prospering regularly in the first team before long.

I’m not sure if this was meant for me or @Exiled Shrimper ?

I’ve watched / followed Isaac more closely than would normally be the case, one because he’d come from a premier league club, two because he’d attracted offers from abroad which is always big news at the moment and three because I liked what I saw from day one pre season v Bishops Stortford....

Technically you can see he’s come from Cat 1. He’s ahead of all the other young players along with Klass in that respect. His touch and ability to use both feet is an obvious tell tale sign as his ability to deal with the ball in tight areas without panic or needing to just get rid of it....over the times I’ve seen him I’d also say a tell tale sign is he sometimes wants time on the ball (sometimes too much) and wants to be too perfect....a classic premier league academy stamp!!

He is gradually learning a bit more of the rough and tumble required and if he gets it, added to his technical ability I think he can still progress up the leagues.

For now, in the first team, I think he’s been unfortunate. He made several useful appearances from the bench before Gillingham where he was breath of fresh air but the team performance v Plymouth affected him more than anyone and I think he got over confident and tried to hard to make something happen...that’s creative players for you, sometimes you have to just suck it up.

Since then, Portsmouth I don’t think he contributed much but I watched Accrington on ifollow and I thought he showed real promise even further up the pitch where he’s not really best suited. To be missing completely since then is strange and a little unfair if it’s performance based?

I’d have him on the bench regularly. For one he can play left right and central midfield and can play as an attacking centre midfielder as well as a conventional one and although not his best position he showed at Accrington he can do a job as a forward.

If we can keep them, or we can be patient enough I see no reason why Southend don’t end up with a side featuring, Dru, Charlie, Michael, Elvis, Isaac, Lewis Gard (who is another talent not to be forgotten) Nathen.....etc etc etc and I’d very much like to still be watching if that happens!!!
 
SOUTHEND United manager Chris Powell believes Luke Hyam's fighting qualities make a big difference to the Shrimpers.

More...
 
Two very good posts. I’m not sure @Yorkshire Blue if you were asking me or @Exiled Shrimper for their opinion.....

Exiled Shrimper I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, like I say it was a really good post.

What I don’t agree with is you saying players don’t often play a lot of second string football..... The problem we have in this country is actually often these players play second string football for too long!! It’s getting them into the first team that’s the difficult bit usually!!

But there has to be a balance, too little can be as damaging long term as too much....some of the talent at Cat 1 clubs that rots away at premier league 23s level is criminal!!

The levels of 16/17 year olds at these clubs is just mind boggling and unfortunately they can stagnate through not being challenged whereas at lower league clubs players can move on and overtake some of these players.

However, in the final analysis it is more often going to be the boys from the cat 1s that filter down into our clubs than it is going to be boys produced by us that overtake them....there will always be exceptions but there will be more pros in the lower leagues that have come from premier league clubs than there will be from the lower league clubs themselves.....there’s a food chain and dropping out of a Southend will often see you end up at Billaricay (or the like) whereas leaving Chelsea / Arsenal etc or even a QPR or an Aston Villa will see you hit many branches on your way down the tree....Southend being one of them....

Anyway, my point was, that not many players gain a football education without the experience of second string football.....usually, if they are exceptional, it will just be from an earlier age...15/16 yr olds in the 23s regularly rather than 19/20 years then having a sustained spell in the 23s......I’ve said before, if you aren’t getting first team experience somewhere by the time you’re 20 / 21 you’ve probably missed the boat for whatever level you were aiming at....

For Charlie the gap from cat 3 U18s to league 1 without an experience between and without learning his trade is dangerous.

He won’t enjoy the success (or failure) of so many types of finishes, he won’t learn when to and when not to take an extra touch before his shot, when to pass or shoot or when lay off or dribble....he won’t encounter as many 1v1 situations with or without the ball and he won’t get the ball exposure that’ll determine his decision making process......

He will simply play game in a rush. He’ll always enjoy some success....even a blind squirrel always finds nuts...but he’ll be chasing a game, arriving too late in most cases, (IMO like Saturday), releasing the ball too soon out of pressure and losing out physically when he should be spending longer in possession to learn.....

Ian Wright said in an interview that he reason he has such a variety of goals to his name was due to playing Sunday league football so late where he was able to experiment and try things and when he finally made it he was able to do things naturally that other players had never been able to try or learn....

That said, I agree with you on the qualities he has and what you’ve identified as his attributes. I just know there’s a huge difference in being able to execute them in kids football as opposed to having to execute them against league 1 players without having had the chance to hone his skills and become suitably proficient.....

You make some good points there Grapevine. Sadly the restrictions start much younger now. If you sign for Southend aged 8 you cant play Sunday or school football etc with your mates, which is totally wrong. There is far more than football at stake for a child that age and when they are told what they can eat even at a friends party, then that is far to restrictive. Even the personal confidence of being school captain etc is lost when you become the kid who is to good for us.

The reason Dru was such a revelation before the ref allowed Sunderland kicked him off the park was the very fact he didn't play the ball the way he was facing in a safe cat1 standard coached manor. No he would turn and leave the first man standing and do what CB's hate the most run at you with pace down the middle.

If you cant learn that in a game of 3 and in over the park how many youth coaches will be brave enough to let you do it, when they are still relying on results to keep there jobs.
 
Two very good posts. I’m not sure @Yorkshire Blue if you were asking me or @Exiled Shrimper for their opinion.....

Exiled Shrimper I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, like I say it was a really good post.

What I don’t agree with is you saying players don’t often play a lot of second string football..... The problem we have in this country is actually often these players play second string football for too long!! It’s getting them into the first team that’s the difficult bit usually!!

But there has to be a balance, too little can be as damaging long term as too much....some of the talent at Cat 1 clubs that rots away at premier league 23s level is criminal!!

The levels of 16/17 year olds at these clubs is just mind boggling and unfortunately they can stagnate through not being challenged whereas at lower league clubs players can move on and overtake some of these players.

However, in the final analysis it is more often going to be the boys from the cat 1s that filter down into our clubs than it is going to be boys produced by us that overtake them....there will always be exceptions but there will be more pros in the lower leagues that have come from premier league clubs than there will be from the lower league clubs themselves.....there’s a food chain and dropping out of a Southend will often see you end up at Billaricay (or the like) whereas leaving Chelsea / Arsenal etc or even a QPR or an Aston Villa will see you hit many branches on your way down the tree....Southend being one of them....

Anyway, my point was, that not many players gain a football education without the experience of second string football.....usually, if they are exceptional, it will just be from an earlier age...15/16 yr olds in the 23s regularly rather than 19/20 years then having a sustained spell in the 23s......I’ve said before, if you aren’t getting first team experience somewhere by the time you’re 20 / 21 you’ve probably missed the boat for whatever level you were aiming at....

For Charlie the gap from cat 3 U18s to league 1 without an experience between and without learning his trade is dangerous.

He won’t enjoy the success (or failure) of so many types of finishes, he won’t learn when to and when not to take an extra touch before his shot, when to pass or shoot or when lay off or dribble....he won’t encounter as many 1v1 situations with or without the ball and he won’t get the ball exposure that’ll determine his decision making process......

He will simply play game in a rush. He’ll always enjoy some success....even a blind squirrel always finds nuts...but he’ll be chasing a game, arriving too late in most cases, (IMO like Saturday), releasing the ball too soon out of pressure and losing out physically when he should be spending longer in possession to learn.....

Ian Wright said in an interview that he reason he has such a variety of goals to his name was due to playing Sunday league football so late where he was able to experiment and try things and when he finally made it he was able to do things naturally that other players had never been able to try or learn....

That said, I agree with you on the qualities he has and what you’ve identified as his attributes. I just know there’s a huge difference in being able to execute them in kids football as opposed to having to execute them against league 1 players without having had the chance to hone his skills and become suitably proficient.....

I do agree with much of this; I probably didn't articulate my initial post well enough, although I do think there is simply less second-string football than there was even 20 or 30 years ago. Even with a run in the Essex Senior Cup this season there will be less than 20 'competitive' U23s matches this season (12 league, 3 league cup, 1 Premier League Cup, 3 Essex Senior Cup). It would take 7-and-a-half seasons at that rate to play 150 U23s games!

But you're correct that players quite often either don't spend enough time in the U23s or too much, even if there will be exceptions. Players will develop at different times and some players won't be ready for first-team football at 17/18 and will need a couple of years in the U23s. It's also imperative that we can try to get players out on loan to experience senior football at this time because playing matches will real meaning is vital for their development.
 
Is this really Shrimperzone ,cant believe we getting so many articulate posts .Mind you i like it,perhaps some of the staff at SUFC should take a read of all this sense now being posted,they may learn a thing or two .
 
SOUTHEND United manager Chris Powell will be carefully monitoring the fitness of his squad before finalising the Shrimpers’ starting line-up at Scunthorpe United this evening.

More...
 
The squad named in The Echo only has one goalie Nathan Bishop.
 
Bishop, Demetriou, Moore, Turner, Lennon, Hart, Mantom, Dieng, Hyam, Cox, Bunn

No Elvis on bench must be injured
 
Are we really expecting both Lennon and Kiernan to play after a full match on Saturday?
Correct me if I’m wrong,but I think those two might have made less appearances than others ,during this demanding,long,exhausting season.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong,but I think those two might have made less appearances than others ,during this demanding,long,exhausting season.
Yeah, because they haven't played in a while. If you aren't able to do the heavy cardio of a match for a year then you aren't going be used to running around for 90 minutes, which means it will take longer to recover than a normal player.
 
P
Yeah, because they haven't played in a while. If you aren't able to do the heavy cardio of a match for a year then you aren't going be used to running around for 90 minutes, which means it will take longer to recover than a normal player.
Possibly yes—if Lennon can’t do the full stint tonight,we played have Kiernan to come on—it’s great,at last,to have our 4 proper centre-backs available.
 
P

Possibly yes—if Lennon can’t do the full stint tonight,we played have Kiernan to come on—it’s great,at last,to have our 4 proper centre-backs available.
Yeah wasn't it? We looked so tight at the back.....
And you have the gall to dis John White.
 
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