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Crabby Shrimper

President
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
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Location
Chepstow
Ok, I know politics is a dodgy subject at the moment, but felt this story needed reporting. Be interesting to see how it develops, in my opinion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/3532133/Tory-minister-Damian-Green-arrested-under-the-Official-Secrets-Acts.html

Mr Green, who is the shadow immigration minister, was arrested at his home in Kent by counter-terrorism police officers.

The arrest follows a series of leaks to the Conservatives about Government policy, including a sensitive memorandum from the Home Office's most senior official on crime figures earlier this month.

David Cameron, the Conservative leader, is said to be "extremely angry" about the arrest and has privately accused the Government of "Stalinesque" behaviour.

Mr Green is understood to have been arrested at lunchtime today and is still in custody. He has not been charged.

Green has been arrested after obtaining leaked Whitehall documents. Police searched his family home and his office in the House of Commons.

He was arrested for "aiding and abetting misconduct in public office".

It is claimed that nine counter-terrorism officers were involved in the arrest.

Mr Cameron has pledged his full support for the shadow immigration minister. In a statement he said: "Disclosure of this information was manifestly in the public interest. Mr Green denies any wrongdoing and stands by his action."

However, the arrest of such a senior Conservative figure who hopes to become a Home Office minister will embarrass the opposition. He is now likely to face pressure to resign from the Tory front bench.

Government sources also believe that sensitive information from the Treasury, including confidential announcements in the pre-Budget report, was leaked to the Conservatives.

In February this year, Mr Green criticised the Government over leaked documents at the Home Office.

He said: "Ministers like to talk tough about cracking down on employers but it is clear that the system is failing in our most sensitive buildings. What makes this even worse is that ministers' first instinct was to cover it up."

An alleged "whistleblower", thought to be a male Home Office official was arrested 10 days ago.

It is understood that the inquiry is focusing on four Home Office documents allegedly obtained by the Conservatives. Last November, documents from the private office of Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, were leaked to the opposition.

They showed that ministers had known for four months that thousands of illegal immigrants had been cleared to work as security guards but had not told Parliament.

Other documents included information about an illegal immigrant working at House of Commons and a list of Labour MPs preparing to vote against the Government's anti-terrorism measures.

Tory sources angrily pointed out that the police move came after Parliament rose for a five-day holiday.

Had the Commons been sitting, they said, MPs could have immediately raised the matter with the Speaker.

The police search of Mr Green's office had to be authorised by the Serjeant at Arms, who answers to the Speaker.

Mr Green’s constituency office was also searched.

So, legitimate protection of the state, or cowardly bullying and misuse of power by those ruling?
 
As you say it will be very interesting to see how this develops.

I can't help being reminded of former Shadow Foreign Secretary Robin Cook boasting of a leak a week when New Labour were in opposition. Also there have been plenty of leaked information about this government. I suspect this may be a storm in a tea cup.
 
Nothing new here apart from the arrest of course. Govenment papers have been leaked to the papers the media and opposition parties for decades. This is the first time I have heard of criminal arrests due to these leaks but then again we are talking about a political party that uses powers to their own gain even when their own supporters disagree. New Labour or just Old Labour in Saville Row suits.
 
Nothing new here apart from the arrest of course. Govenment papers have been leaked to the papers the media and opposition parties for decades. This is the first time I have heard of criminal arrests due to these leaks but then again we are talking about a political party that uses powers to their own gain even when their own supporters disagree. New Labour or just Old Labour in Saville Row suits.

The only case I can think of off hand was that of Clive Ponting in the 80's and he got off for breaching the official secrets act.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/216868.stm
 
Nothing new here apart from the arrest of course. Govenment papers have been leaked to the papers the media and opposition parties for decades. This is the first time I have heard of criminal arrests due to these leaks but then again we are talking about a political party that uses powers to their own gain even when their own supporters disagree. New Labour or just Old Labour in Saville Row suits.

To be honest, that's what got my attention. Besides, were they leaks, or did he just find a laptop on the train?
 
The only case I can think of off hand was that of Clive Ponting in the 80's and he got off for breaching the official secrets act.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/216868.stm

After looking him up I now remember this. He was a civil servant as I recall and was bang out of order in the sense that not only did he leak documents but leaked them to a self confessed far left member of parliment who openly supported the UK in rolling over to anyone who felt like taking a pop at us and also could have turned allies against us with information that was easily turned around in our enemies favour.

I loved his defence.

In the publics interest - Yeah right, was he the one who released the sordid details about HMS Coventry and Sheffield getting attacked by French made missiles? No thought not.

The disclosure of information to a MP was privileged - Tam Dalyell? Please tell me he was kidding. He might have just phoned up the Kremlin and been done with it.

What he done amounted to the actions of Lord Haw Haw in my opinion and he deserved to hang. And he would if I had my way.
 
This is a very worrying development.

The decision to arrest someone so senior in the opposition party was almost certainly taken at cabinet level and I find the politicising of the justice system disturbing to say the least.

Considering the Labour government has more leaks than Wales and has recently reappointed Mandelson, it smacks of hypocrisy. Personally, I'd rather the police concentrated on arresting and prosecuting people for corruption (eg the Ecclestone scandal, when the former PM admitted to being bribed and yet still seems to be roaming the streets free) rather than coming down heavy on opposition politicians or journalists.

This is at least the third time off the top of my head that I can think of that anti-terrorist legislation has been wrongly used, after that pensioner Wolfgang somebody was chucked out of the Labour conference and when the Icelandic Banks had their assets frozen. If this happened in Zimbabwe there would be uproar.
 
Pretty much agree with GHG over the Clive Ponting business, and also the subsequent fiasco with David Shayler who did his best to break the official secrets act with his tale of MI5.

I think that YB is spot on with his assessment and this may yet be another smokescreen for the government to release more bad news under the cover of this story. On the face of it, it seems to me that Mr Green is doing his job in opposition, and has apparently vowed to continue bringing to light embarrassing information which government ministers would prefer to keep secret.
 
This is a very worrying development.

The decision to arrest someone so senior in the opposition party was almost certainly taken at cabinet level and I find the politicising of the justice system disturbing to say the least.

Considering the Labour government has more leaks than Wales and has recently reappointed Mandelson, it smacks of hypocrisy. Personally, I'd rather the police concentrated on arresting and prosecuting people for corruption (eg the Ecclestone scandal, when the former PM admitted to being bribed and yet still seems to be roaming the streets free) rather than coming down heavy on opposition politicians or journalists.

This is at least the third time off the top of my head that I can think of that anti-terrorist legislation has been wrongly used, after that pensioner Wolfgang somebody was chucked out of the Labour conference and when the Icelandic Banks had their assets frozen. If this happened in Zimbabwe there would be uproar.

According to Radio Five this morning Boris Johnson knew about the arrest before hand, but did very little to stop it. However, more worryingly is that a Conservative MP was on there saying the David Cameron knew about it in advance, and did nothing to stop it. You've got to ask yourself why David Cameron didn't stop it unless he was intent on making politcal gain from it. I've never heard of anything so cynical in my life.
 
It's quite a worrying turn of events. I know the Government are becoming very keen on Official Secrets at the moment because there is quite a lot of very embarrassing financial stuff that if it got into the public domain would give them major problems explaining away. To the best of my knowledge the Official Secrets Act applies in the main to civil servants but we've always had the ability to involve our MPs if the needs be (on the basis that MPs run the civil service not civil servants). So the arrest of an MP may set a very worrying trend - though I suspect this prove to be a storm in a teacup.
 
According to Radio Five this morning Boris Johnson knew about the arrest before hand, but did very little to stop it. However, more worryingly is that a Conservative MP was on there saying the David Cameron knew about it in advance, and did nothing to stop it. You've got to ask yourself why David Cameron didn't stop it unless he was intent on making politcal gain from it. I've never heard of anything so cynical in my life.

I am not sure exactly how either Johnson or Cameron could stop the arrest happening. I suppose it is possible they could get political gain from this, but is that any more or less cynical then some of the things this present government have done. None less than leading us into an unwinnable war based on a tissue of lies.
 
I am not sure exactly how either Johnson or Cameron could stop the arrest happening. I suppose it is possible they could get political gain from this, but is that any more or less cynical then some of the things this present government have done. None less than leading us into an unwinnable war based on a tissue of lies.

Well Boris being chair of the Metropolitan Police Authority might have helped him stop this arrest.
 
It's quite a worrying turn of events. I know the Government are becoming very keen on Official Secrets at the moment because there is quite a lot of very embarrassing financial stuff that if it got into the public domain would give them major problems explaining away. To the best of my knowledge the Official Secrets Act applies in the main to civil servants but we've always had the ability to involve our MPs if the needs be (on the basis that MPs run the civil service not civil servants). So the arrest of an MP may set a very worrying trend - though I suspect this prove to be a storm in a teacup.

Thing is, it's not even an arrest under the Official Secrets Act - the papers in question were low-grade, and so the arrest was under the old common law offence of Misfeasance in Public Office.

There's no question that Brown is allowing his Stalinist, control-freakery side bubble to the surface in order to try to hammer anyone who dare suggest he's anything but the master of the known universe.

Equally, the Tories are quite clearly guilty of a deeply cynical ploy, doing nothing about the arrest fully in the knowledge that this could be used for maximum political embarrassment against Brown, especially when Brown denied all knowledge of the arrest, at which point Cameron & Johnson turned round and pointed out that it was inconceivable that Brown didn't know about it, given that Cameron himself had been told.

I do wish they'd all grow-up, though. This is grubby point-scoring of the worst kind.

Matt
 
I think everyone needs to go back and watch Yes Minister and yes Prime minister .

All the parties appear to be grossly self serving at cabinet level or equivalent (still its funny its happended to the tories for a change he he)
 
not that it makes a jot of difference to the charge, but I wonder why the information was leaked, if it was felt that the information should have been in the public domain then I feel that leaking it is more justified, than leaking it purely for personal or political gain. By leaking it to an opposition MP (as opposed to the media) it does seem more like the latter.

it does appear to me that it was a political point scoring based leak, leading to a tit for tat exchange of the lowest kind.
However if our prevention of terrorism officers have enough time on their hands to get involved in this , the islamic threat can't be as bad as the Daily mail is making out
 
I am not sure exactly how either Johnson or Cameron could stop the arrest happening. I suppose it is possible they could get political gain from this, but is that any more or less cynical then some of the things this present government have done. None less than leading us into an unwinnable war based on a tissue of lies.

I'm not saying they're any worse than the Government. I'm pointing out they're no better either...
 
Thing is, it's not even an arrest under the Official Secrets Act - the papers in question were low-grade, and so the arrest was under the old common law offence of Misfeasance in Public Office.

There's no question that Brown is allowing his Stalinist, control-freakery side bubble to the surface in order to try to hammer anyone who dare suggest he's anything but the master of the known universe.

Equally, the Tories are quite clearly guilty of a deeply cynical ploy, doing nothing about the arrest fully in the knowledge that this could be used for maximum political embarrassment against Brown, especially when Brown denied all knowledge of the arrest, at which point Cameron & Johnson turned round and pointed out that it was inconceivable that Brown didn't know about it, given that Cameron himself had been told.

I do wish they'd all grow-up, though. This is grubby point-scoring of the worst kind.

Matt

What could the Tories do? Cameron was informed, but having been informed what exactly could he do? He has no authority in this situation. Maybe Johnson possibly had, but if he had intervened that would look incredibly dodgy intervening in a police investigation into his own party. It was up to the Jacqui Smith or Gordon Brown to tell the police to just invite him in for questioning.
 
What could the Tories do? Cameron was informed, but having been informed what exactly could he do? He has no authority in this situation. Maybe Johnson possibly had, but if he had intervened that would look incredibly dodgy intervening in a police investigation into his own party. It was up to the Jacqui Smith or Gordon Brown to tell the police to just invite him in for questioning.

If Cameron had phoned Brown, do we really think Brown wouldn't have intervened? The Dear Leader and the Leader of the Opposition traditionally speak to each other a lot more often than we mortals might imagine.

I certainly don't disagree with the notion, however, that this looks much worse for the government than the Tories...

Matt
 
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