Shamima Bequm-Return or not ?

[Cricko]

Dunno , but the original post specifically said a court case would drag on for years . That was where I was coming from , not the competence of a prosecution case

Thats the point though, it may in the end after God knows how long of mitigation and a few weeks of a court case, but why on earth would we do this to a person that went out of her way by choice to join a group who want us dead and we pay for it,

It's utter madness.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

TUIB, see post #62

It will be impossible if she is single citizenship, however if she does own dual, its a lot easier to banning her from the UK and send her off elsewhere to Balgladesh.

Talking of which (slightly off the topic) but in comparison of a young adult leaving of her own free will to dedicate her life to join and help terrorists, and then cries to the media like a little girl that wants to come back home when the going gets rough.....

Anyway..... Look at the below petition of this sick elderly 92 year old South African lady that has no one back home to look after her (yet she has a caring daughter and son in law that cares for her final days for free).

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-ailing-92-year-old-facing-forced-removal-from-uk


Basically, I know who i would much prefer to keep in this country.

It's my understanding, from reports I saw on the news today, that we're talking about a UK citizen with only UK citizenship and not someone with dual nationality.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

One of the problems is that she didn't leave ISIS because she made a huge mistake or has changed her mindset. ISIS are trapped in a ever decreasing area, and are likely to be wiped out. The men have sent nearly all the women and children across the desert to that camp of safety in Northern Syria, the one where she is. Whether those Thousands of women and teenage girls have been given instructions to do unspeakable acts in whatever country they end up in, we don't know. They wouldn't have been with ISIS if they didn't have that mindset.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I'm not sure whether she is - there was legislation a few years ago aimed at deterring people from going to join IS, which did bring up the question of repatriation. Not just the UK considered that but across Europe, at the height of the terror attacks across the continent. I would need to look up the provisions in law but this isn't as simple as 'she was born here, so she is legally fine to return'

I think it has now been clarified that she has British citizenship and only British citizenship so legally she has to be allowed back into Britain, but, and rightly so IMO, she has to make her own way back and can be arrested straight away.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You say that, but I bet there’s a fair few hiding amoung us who’d feel sorry for her plight, and simply put it down to her being a youngster who didn’t know any better.

Of course, nobody would admit it.

I've just watched Question Time and self styled right winger Geoff Norcott said almost word for word what @mkshrimper said about allowing her to return, the safety of the baby and the intel that can be gained from her. Jacob Rees-Mogg argued for her return. The whole panel argued for her return. Not with open arms but because of international law and because she is probably less dangerous in a UK jail / having her misdemeanors managed her than roaming free elsewhere.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

There is youtube clip of Moseley being interviewed on ITV in about 1975 (who would have thought possible)…...Comes across quite well.

The Daily Mail were very keen on him.

 

[GBJ]

I've just watched Question Time and self styled right winger Geoff Norcott said almost word for word what @mkshrimper said about allowing her to return, the safety of the baby and the intel that can be gained from her. Jacob Rees-Mogg argued for her return. The whole panel argued for her return. Not with open arms but because of international law and because she is probably less dangerous in a UK jail / having her misdemeanors managed her than roaming free elsewhere.

I’m not arguing the law. Im saying the law is ridiculous, and should be changed.

Less dangerous in the UK? How? She’ll be the poster girl for wannabe terrorists, who will see that once again our weak laws work in their favour.

Edit: The intel part is incredibly far-fetched, as she’s not going to give anything up

Interestingly, it’s being reported this morning, that this woman isn’t the only one out there, looking for a return.

 

[rigsby]

One thing that is interesting is all photos were the 3 girls are at airports.......All look a bit fake to me...…..I'm not saying there aren't 'jihadi Brides' who have headed out to the ME. But have a good look at the ones were they are supposedly going through security etc.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I’m not arguing the law. Im saying the law is ridiculous, and should be changed.

Less dangerous in the UK? How? She’ll be the poster girl for wannabe terrorists, who will see that once again our weak laws work in their favour.

Edit: The intel part is incredibly far-fetched, as she’s not going to give anything up

Interestingly, it’s being reported this morning, that this woman isn’t the only one out there, looking for a return.

This is international law we're talking about."Under international law, it is not possible to render a person stateless."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47248555

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

One thing that is interesting is all photos were the 3 girls are at airports.......All look a bit fake to me...…..I'm not saying there aren't 'jihadi Brides' who have headed out to the ME. But have a good look at the ones were they are supposedly going through security etc.

Oh come on rigsby, don't start the fake and conspiracy theory about this as well. The 3 girls were trying to look older to get on that plane without being held at passport control. They were 15, 15 and 16. Shemima Begum was trying to look like her older sister who's passport she used, so of course they are going to look a bit different, maybe even odd.

 

[rigsby]

Oh come on rigsby, don't start the fake and conspiracy theory about this as well. The 3 girls were trying to look older to get on that plane without being held at passport control. They were 15, 15 and 16. Shemima Begum was trying to look like her older sister who's passport she used, so of course they are going to look a bit different, maybe even odd.

Havent said that have I.

You do know that the MSM fake things, like photos just to have the scoop. Doesn't mean the basic story isn't true.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Havent said that have I.

You do know that the MSM fake things, like photos just to have the scoop. Doesn't mean the basic story isn't true.

Sometimes story's are not made the most of. For example, did you know that 1 of the 3 girls Amira Abase father was a well known radical, despite him appearing on the news asking how his daughter could do this, and what caused it. Even photo'd holding her favourite teddy bear. He was at the front of many radical rallies, burning American and British flags and threatening to behead non believers of Islam, and such like. He took his then 13 year old daughter Amira to these rallies. When questioned about it later, he said he was swept away by the crowd and didn't know what he was doing. He got swept away a lot.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Isn't it funny though those who have experience at the sharp end (the ex-director of MI6) are seemingly OK with her returning. It's almost like they know what they're talking about.

 

[GBJ]

Isn't it funny though those who have experience at the sharp end (the ex-director of MI6) are seemingly OK with her returning. It's almost like they know what they're talking about.

Occasionally though, the people in charge, do get things wrong.

Take the Prevent mob for example. They had sussed this girl out, they knew she was being, or at the very least was susceptible to being radicalised. What did they do? They told her school. Who subsequently, gave her a letter, to take home to her mum & dad.

These are the people empowered with protecting us.

 

[GBJ]

This is international law we're talking about."Under international law, it is not possible to render a person stateless."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47248555

So International Law should change then.

It’s another example of when doing the right thing, is legally wrong

 

[rigsby]

In answer to TSNB

Sometimes the story will be completely changed for all sorts of reasons, not just security, as they would like you to believe. That's why I don't trust them.

A good friend of mine was on the first Fire appliance to attend the first 7/7 bomb at Aldgate. He spent 45 minutes saving the life of a young women, who had been in the carriage where the bomb went off. He actually phoned her dad from her mobile. She later needed 4 operations and he remained in touch with her and her family.

When I saw headlines in the London Standard or Mail (cant remember which) a few years later with her name and the words 'a survivors tale', I settled down to what should have been a good read. It was a female journalist interviewing female survivor type personal struggle tick box interview.

They claimed she spent 1 hour 45 minutes in the train, when in fact she was out much quicker. They went to say she then walked to her office on her own, when in fact she went in an ambulance to hospital after about 1 hour. Then they claimed only when people pointed out her blackened face in the office did she realise how serious it was.

Why did they change a good story and cut out my friend and the anyone else in the Fire service. The answer is very complicated and goes far deeper than anyone can understand and I'm not talking about the standard it was a 'false flag' stuff.

The other question would be, do they pay a victim and their families a certain amount to change their story ? Who knows but what I can tell you is a lot you of what read or even see in pictures is not at all what really happened.

 

[rigsby]

Occasionally though, the people in charge, do get things wrong.

Take the Prevent mob for example. They had sussed this girl out, they knew she was being, or at the very least was susceptible to being radicalised. What did they do? They told her school. Who subsequently, gave her a letter, to take home to her mum & dad.

These are the people empowered with protecting us.

Remember its not unusual for a rat catcher to release a male and a female.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Occasionally though, the people in charge, do get things wrong.

You're reaching here. You really think the (ex) Director of MI6 would endanger the country they've sworn to protect. He's dealt with people like her (and probably a lot worse than her) a 100 times.

There was also a piece on the radio this morning, saying that she's in a camp with ISIS fighters (either open or hidden). If she was seen to condemn them then they'd kill her & her baby.

 

[Napster]

In answer to TSNB

Sometimes the story will be completely changed for all sorts of reasons, not just security, as they would like you to believe. That's why I don't trust them.

A good friend of mine was on the first Fire appliance to attend the first 7/7 bomb at Aldgate. He spent 45 minutes saving the life of a young women, who had been in the carriage where the bomb went off. He actually phoned her dad from her mobile. She later needed 4 operations and he remained in touch with her and her family.

When I saw headlines in the London Standard or Mail (cant remember which) a few years later with her name and the words 'a survivors tale', I settled down to what should have been a good read. It was a female journalist interviewing female survivor type personal struggle tick box interview.

They claimed she spent 1 hour 45 minutes in the train, when in fact she was out much quicker. They went to say she then walked to her office on her own, when in fact she went in an ambulance to hospital after about 1 hour. Then they claimed only when people pointed out her blackened face in the office did she realise how serious it was.

Why did they change a good story and cut out my friend and the anyone else in the Fire service. The answer is very complicated and goes far deeper than anyone can understand and I'm not talking about the standard it was a 'false flag' stuff.

The other question would be, do they pay a victim and their families a certain amount to change their story ? Who knows but what I can tell you is a lot you of what read or even see in pictures is not at all what really happened.

Is it so they can make cuts to the service by arguing they're not needed? Not that complicated.

 

[rigsby]

Is it so they can make cuts to the service by arguing they're not needed? Not that complicated.

That is of course one reason.

They systematically cut the LFB from giving evidence at the sham of an inquiry because to many of them had to much to say. Blair refused 3 times to have a public inquiry. 12 Fire engines had been cut from inner London in April that year, which is why their was barely any attendance for over I hour at the bus incident in Tavistock Square.

Equally there was a disagreement bordering on a fight between senior ambulance staff and Firefighters at Aldgate.